Why would I want a 911?
09-12-2002, 01:49 AM
#16
Besides being fun to drive (DUH!) there's the issue of resale. Arguably, the 911 has the best chance of holding it's value as time goes by. Ever seen any durable goods over 10 years old (besides a house) command the type of money a 911 does?
These cars have a charm and timeless style that few others can match. It's one of (if not the) greatest of automotive icons. Ask anyone what a 911 is, and you WILL get an answer. Try that with a WRX or a Supra -
Face it, for the money, you can buy more proficient machinery with better #'s, but owning a 911 much, much more than that.
rjp
These cars have a charm and timeless style that few others can match. It's one of (if not the) greatest of automotive icons. Ask anyone what a 911 is, and you WILL get an answer. Try that with a WRX or a Supra -
Face it, for the money, you can buy more proficient machinery with better #'s, but owning a 911 much, much more than that.
rjp
09-12-2002, 02:54 AM
#17
Rennlist Member
As has ben hinted at consider the most basic economics...look at what the market says in relation to the value of the the 911 in contrast to a Turbo S car. A 1989 Turbo S car...sells for about $7,000 to $10,000, maybe $12,000. What would a clean 89 911 Coupe sell for? Bingo, there is one answer. I can tell you this, a 1989 911 Turbo Carrera sells for close to $40,000, and they appear to be going up in value, not the case with the 1989 Turbo S car, why is this?
The 911 is a bit of a handful to drive compared to a 944...and not everyone can move into a car with 60% of the weight on the tail, and drive it well. Once you can drive a 911 well, that in itself is its own reward. Driving a neutral car such as a 944 Turbo doesn't take quite as much skill, IMHO. How the heck to you rotate one of those cars?
Porsche cars to me and my fellow 911 aficionados, are air cooled/oil cooled, dry sump and the engines are in the rear. Anything else is not a Porsche. This may be an emotional stance, but I take it with thousands ot others.
In conclusion, if you have to ask, why a 911 over a 944 Turbo car, you probably have not driven a 911, and especially a 911 at speed. And until you take that drive, you'll probably never be convinced with argument, so I for one, will not waste the bandwidth. I suspect there is water in your heart, our hearts pump 12 quarts of Mobil 1 oil.
Drive a 911 with the approximate power to weight ratio of your car...you'll sell that water pumper in a week!
The 911 is a bit of a handful to drive compared to a 944...and not everyone can move into a car with 60% of the weight on the tail, and drive it well. Once you can drive a 911 well, that in itself is its own reward. Driving a neutral car such as a 944 Turbo doesn't take quite as much skill, IMHO. How the heck to you rotate one of those cars?
Porsche cars to me and my fellow 911 aficionados, are air cooled/oil cooled, dry sump and the engines are in the rear. Anything else is not a Porsche. This may be an emotional stance, but I take it with thousands ot others.
In conclusion, if you have to ask, why a 911 over a 944 Turbo car, you probably have not driven a 911, and especially a 911 at speed. And until you take that drive, you'll probably never be convinced with argument, so I for one, will not waste the bandwidth. I suspect there is water in your heart, our hearts pump 12 quarts of Mobil 1 oil.
Drive a 911 with the approximate power to weight ratio of your car...you'll sell that water pumper in a week!
09-12-2002, 04:44 AM
#18
Race Car
Von, I wouldn't be so sure that #4 doesn't count! 
FWIW, my first Porsche was a 924S, then I went onto an '84 944 and dumped WAY too much money into it. While it was a fun car, with it's lowering springs and all, one day my friend asked me to go with him and pick up his 911SC from the shop. He came over and picked me up in his SUV and we headed to the shop, I thought I was to drive the SUV back to his house.
WRONG!
He insisted that I drive his rear-engined beast...I couldn't decide on whether I wanted to or not, but thought of how I had never driven a 911 before.
What a treat! I ran out and bought one a few months later.
FWIW, my first Porsche was a 924S, then I went onto an '84 944 and dumped WAY too much money into it. While it was a fun car, with it's lowering springs and all, one day my friend asked me to go with him and pick up his 911SC from the shop. He came over and picked me up in his SUV and we headed to the shop, I thought I was to drive the SUV back to his house.
WRONG!
He insisted that I drive his rear-engined beast...I couldn't decide on whether I wanted to or not, but thought of how I had never driven a 911 before.
What a treat! I ran out and bought one a few months later.
09-12-2002, 10:30 AM
#19
Badger:
Having gone through a recent search for my first TRUE sports car I had the opportunity to drive many cars. I drove RX-7 twin turbos, Supra Twin Turbos, BMW M Roadster and of course a 951 S and 911 Carreras. What I ended up purchasing was the 911 (as you could probably guess). My thoughts on how the 911 compared with the others. The RX-7 and the bimmer were the most porsche-like cars of the bunch. However the RX-7 while it seemed wired into your brain, was very FRAGILE, I was waiting for it to break every time I came hard in or out of a corner. The bimmer was very fast, handled great but was not as communicative as the RX or any of the Porsches. The supra, while blazingly fast felt like the lexus it was based on, a great GT car, not a sports car.
Now to your question, the 951 is a VERY capable car with incredible balance and neutrality. However, it had two drawbacks in my opinion. One the motor, great top end, okay mid range and absolutely no bottom end which made it frustrating at times to drive out of slow corners and not much fun for more "leisurely" drives because to get those cars to run you have to "drive it like you stole it". When I drove the 911 it was like being placed into the car rather than being along for the ride. The 951, while fast, felt like a sports car trying to be a GT. A little heavy and lacked the 'communication' that a 911 has. The 911 also felt like it could be driven faster and harder once you learn what you can and cannot do with the car.
Many complain of the 'swapping' tendancies of this car, but I think they are overblown. To drive a 911 fast just rember to keep weight on the rear end when turning. This means entering corners slower but exiting much faster. The slow entrance speeds are counteracted by brakes that pull you out of your seat and low weight requiring the tires and brakes to do less work. The 911 also has a much more 'mechanical' feel to it, like you and all functions of the car are attached by a metal rod. Once you get into a conversation with the car, it will not lie to you, you just have to listen. 911s are also nearly bullet proof if you maintain them. Mine has 90k on it and it is stiffer and more solid than most brand-new cars. Also, the car seems to enjoy being driven hard, does not tend to 'tire' like many of the cars I listed above.
I hope I sheaded some light on the topic and put to words that 'feeling' that the others have talked about. Good luck with your decision, I don't know that you will make a 'wrong' one with either car.
<img src="graemlins/burnout.gif" border="0" alt="[burnout]" />
Having gone through a recent search for my first TRUE sports car I had the opportunity to drive many cars. I drove RX-7 twin turbos, Supra Twin Turbos, BMW M Roadster and of course a 951 S and 911 Carreras. What I ended up purchasing was the 911 (as you could probably guess). My thoughts on how the 911 compared with the others. The RX-7 and the bimmer were the most porsche-like cars of the bunch. However the RX-7 while it seemed wired into your brain, was very FRAGILE, I was waiting for it to break every time I came hard in or out of a corner. The bimmer was very fast, handled great but was not as communicative as the RX or any of the Porsches. The supra, while blazingly fast felt like the lexus it was based on, a great GT car, not a sports car.
Now to your question, the 951 is a VERY capable car with incredible balance and neutrality. However, it had two drawbacks in my opinion. One the motor, great top end, okay mid range and absolutely no bottom end which made it frustrating at times to drive out of slow corners and not much fun for more "leisurely" drives because to get those cars to run you have to "drive it like you stole it". When I drove the 911 it was like being placed into the car rather than being along for the ride. The 951, while fast, felt like a sports car trying to be a GT. A little heavy and lacked the 'communication' that a 911 has. The 911 also felt like it could be driven faster and harder once you learn what you can and cannot do with the car.
Many complain of the 'swapping' tendancies of this car, but I think they are overblown. To drive a 911 fast just rember to keep weight on the rear end when turning. This means entering corners slower but exiting much faster. The slow entrance speeds are counteracted by brakes that pull you out of your seat and low weight requiring the tires and brakes to do less work. The 911 also has a much more 'mechanical' feel to it, like you and all functions of the car are attached by a metal rod. Once you get into a conversation with the car, it will not lie to you, you just have to listen. 911s are also nearly bullet proof if you maintain them. Mine has 90k on it and it is stiffer and more solid than most brand-new cars. Also, the car seems to enjoy being driven hard, does not tend to 'tire' like many of the cars I listed above.
I hope I sheaded some light on the topic and put to words that 'feeling' that the others have talked about. Good luck with your decision, I don't know that you will make a 'wrong' one with either car.
<img src="graemlins/burnout.gif" border="0" alt="[burnout]" />
09-12-2002, 10:39 AM
#20
Instructor
Join Date: May 2002
Location:
Posts: 108
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hey, 10 more reasons I thought of...
1.) It was your favorite Hotwheel growing up.
2.) You pointed one(a 911) out to your Dad or friends EVERY time one passed you on the road.
3.) Just seeing one gives you a great energetic feeling. I mean even when its sitting still...its thinking about moving....like a cat ready to pounce.
4.) You get a "thumbs up" from any driver of a minivan/SUV and usually the kids are almost out of their seats just trying to get a glimpse of greatness.
5.) You have read "Road and Track" and "Car and Driver" long before you were of driving age. You read them front to back many times because it featured the 911 or 930 against the best of the best....and still "wowed" the author of the article.
6.) You had a poster of the "baddest 911 ever" on your bedroom wall.
7.) You can individualize it anyway you want to due to the numerous optional parts (race or street) Heck they don't really make an optional tail for the 944 unless you count the 968 tail. There must be 20 different tails for a 911.
8.) The sound of a flat six is indescribable.
9.) Apexing is more fun
10.) Its the car you have driven many times in your dreams...so make it a reality.
I for one cannot agree with Martin's remark below...
"Porsche cars to me and my fellow 911 aficionados, are air cooled/oil cooled, dry sump and the engines are in the rear. Anything else is not a Porsche."
This is the "aficionado" attitude I hated as a 944 owner. I hated being snobbed at the red-light, or from across the street. They looked at me almost with disgust. They never saw the boy(20 years old) that loved Porsches and was planning on working up to the 911 one day. So today(28 years old) when I pass ANY Porsche, new or old, 914 or 911 Turbo...I make an effort to wave, or if I am out of the car...I walk over and speak...and ask them about their car. We all have wonderful stories about our cars...so stop, listen and learn.
I spoke to a guy with a 944 and his girlfriend at a wedding last month and I thought he was going to fall over. He concurred about the typical 911 snobbing that he gets. After about an hour of talking about our cars we parted ways as friends...friends bonded by a company...not just one product of a company. Oh...and by the way...my 944 was a mint example in almost new condition will 16 inch fuchs, and everytime someone got in the car they asked....is this new? Needless to say, a big smile appeared and I replied as I patted her dashboard with..."Nope, its a couple years old". You know you never mention a woman's age in front of her...
Hey we are all on the same road,
I think this is my full dollar's worth today,
--Brian
<img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />
1.) It was your favorite Hotwheel growing up.
2.) You pointed one(a 911) out to your Dad or friends EVERY time one passed you on the road.
3.) Just seeing one gives you a great energetic feeling. I mean even when its sitting still...its thinking about moving....like a cat ready to pounce.
4.) You get a "thumbs up" from any driver of a minivan/SUV and usually the kids are almost out of their seats just trying to get a glimpse of greatness.
5.) You have read "Road and Track" and "Car and Driver" long before you were of driving age. You read them front to back many times because it featured the 911 or 930 against the best of the best....and still "wowed" the author of the article.
6.) You had a poster of the "baddest 911 ever" on your bedroom wall.
7.) You can individualize it anyway you want to due to the numerous optional parts (race or street) Heck they don't really make an optional tail for the 944 unless you count the 968 tail. There must be 20 different tails for a 911.
8.) The sound of a flat six is indescribable.
9.) Apexing is more fun
10.) Its the car you have driven many times in your dreams...so make it a reality.
I for one cannot agree with Martin's remark below...
"Porsche cars to me and my fellow 911 aficionados, are air cooled/oil cooled, dry sump and the engines are in the rear. Anything else is not a Porsche."
This is the "aficionado" attitude I hated as a 944 owner. I hated being snobbed at the red-light, or from across the street. They looked at me almost with disgust. They never saw the boy(20 years old) that loved Porsches and was planning on working up to the 911 one day. So today(28 years old) when I pass ANY Porsche, new or old, 914 or 911 Turbo...I make an effort to wave, or if I am out of the car...I walk over and speak...and ask them about their car. We all have wonderful stories about our cars...so stop, listen and learn.
I spoke to a guy with a 944 and his girlfriend at a wedding last month and I thought he was going to fall over. He concurred about the typical 911 snobbing that he gets. After about an hour of talking about our cars we parted ways as friends...friends bonded by a company...not just one product of a company. Oh...and by the way...my 944 was a mint example in almost new condition will 16 inch fuchs, and everytime someone got in the car they asked....is this new? Needless to say, a big smile appeared and I replied as I patted her dashboard with..."Nope, its a couple years old". You know you never mention a woman's age in front of her...
Hey we are all on the same road,
I think this is my full dollar's worth today,
--Brian
<img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />
09-12-2002, 11:32 AM
#21
Cruisin'
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Ca.
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My opinion. I love the looks of the 911, I love the reaction I get when someone asks me what kind of car I have and say, oh a 911. and they say oooh, really, nice. I also love driving it. I've always owned cars that not everyone else had, such as boxters, they are everywhere. The looks of the early 911's are unique, and I believe that's the reason why most people love them. But now here are the things I don't like about them. I keep hearing how wonderful German engineering is and how indistructable the flat 6's are. Yet I've seen more and more threads on pelican and rennlist asking how to a fix this, how to fix that on the engines. If it isn't a pulled head stud/s, it's a broken head stud/s, if it's not that, it's broken chain tentioners, or leaky oil return tubes, or premature worn valve guides due to lousy materials or over heated by the heat exchangers, blown air boxes, etc. I'm sorry, but this is poor engineering. If you're someone who likes wrenching on your own car and spending tons of money, more power to you. Now I'm only speaking for 70's and early 80's car's. I'm sure the quality improved from 87 on, since these are the cars that seem to come highly recommended. As for the rest of the car, I'm impressed. I've found the 911 to be a very sound and solid car that is indeed a privelidge to drive.
Why would you want a 911? because it is a unique car unlike no other, despite the issues with the engine. It's like a beautiful woman, fun to ride but high maintenance.
EM
Why would you want a 911? because it is a unique car unlike no other, despite the issues with the engine. It's like a beautiful woman, fun to ride but high maintenance.
EM
09-12-2002, 11:50 AM
#22
Earthman -
Remember the source of the info - Pelican, and this BBS are here for those who have problems with their cars. As many 911's as there are out there those problems aren't as common as they seem. Being around these things 1/2 my life, The problems that occur are just like any other car. Just the usual occasional alternator or starter, maintenance (except for oil change prices!!), etc. These problems can happen with most any car. There's always exceptions to the rules, and that's what Rennlist is for.
Remember the source of the info - Pelican, and this BBS are here for those who have problems with their cars. As many 911's as there are out there those problems aren't as common as they seem. Being around these things 1/2 my life, The problems that occur are just like any other car. Just the usual occasional alternator or starter, maintenance (except for oil change prices!!), etc. These problems can happen with most any car. There's always exceptions to the rules, and that's what Rennlist is for.
09-12-2002, 11:57 AM
#23
I wanted a Porsche for years before I bought one... Then I HAD to have one for about a year before I finally did. I went through the whole 911/944 dilemma... like anybody who does much background research, I was well aware that a 951 offered incredible bang for the buck, and I love the styling, and also that of 944 S2... but 500 yards into my first drive of a 911, I thought "I HAVE to get one of these!". From then on htere was no going back. I think Roamer sums it up best. I wanted a weekenn/occasional track car, and considered Supras, RX7s, 300ZXs... but I couldn't get away from the thought "there is no substitute". I felt that, for me, this applied even more to the 911. I know I could have a perfect 944 S2 or a very nice 951 for what I've spent on an average 911 with the much maligned 2.7... I never wished for a second that I had another Porsche or another car. Only you can decide whether a 911 or a 951 or any other car is right for you. Drive a 911. If you are still wondering if you want one, you probably don't.
09-12-2002, 12:10 PM
#24
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 830
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Earthman:
I have to second Randy's point. Generally speaking, we are talking about automobiles that are 20 or more years old. Things will go bad, leak, etc. and need maintenance as they age, no matter the make. As to "spending tons of money...", yes, it can be expensive. Have you had the water pump and timing belt changed on a Subaru Legacy 4wd lately? How about the rotors on a Honda Prelude? Or the wheel bearings on a Mitsubishi Galant? All very expensive...
The "boards" are a resource for sharing info regarding the "problems" associated with owning a Porsche. Just like watching our news media, it can be easy to believe that ther are "so many problems". I, and many other, would contest that view.
They may not be as cheap to maintain as a Chevy Cavalier
or as reliable as a new Honda Accord 
, but were else can you get the other more important aspects of auotomobile ownership (heritage, longevity, grin factor, etc.) than a 911?
<img src="graemlins/soapbox.gif" border="0" alt="[soapbox]" /> <img src="graemlins/icon107.gif" border="0" alt="[icon107]" />
Have a good day.
Eric
I have to second Randy's point. Generally speaking, we are talking about automobiles that are 20 or more years old. Things will go bad, leak, etc. and need maintenance as they age, no matter the make. As to "spending tons of money...", yes, it can be expensive. Have you had the water pump and timing belt changed on a Subaru Legacy 4wd lately? How about the rotors on a Honda Prelude? Or the wheel bearings on a Mitsubishi Galant? All very expensive...
The "boards" are a resource for sharing info regarding the "problems" associated with owning a Porsche. Just like watching our news media, it can be easy to believe that ther are "so many problems". I, and many other, would contest that view.
They may not be as cheap to maintain as a Chevy Cavalier
or as reliable as a new Honda Accord , but were else can you get the other more important aspects of auotomobile ownership (heritage, longevity, grin factor, etc.) than a 911?<img src="graemlins/soapbox.gif" border="0" alt="[soapbox]" /> <img src="graemlins/icon107.gif" border="0" alt="[icon107]" />
Have a good day.
Eric
09-12-2002, 12:40 PM
#25
Oh yeah, go get a r&r on a timing chain for a Chevy SB priced sometime, esp. in a 90's Vette. Most people never think about getting it done, but it has to be, every 80k or with waterpump job. This is assuming, of course you have any money left after replacing the ECU numerous times (ironically, that's the only part of the car that was surprisingly cheap) and injectors.
Another one is a water pump R& R for a Taurus SHO. EGAD! All that money and look at the car it's for? And also, that IS assuming the rest of the car hasn't fallen apart by then, and it probably would have.
In retrospect, the Vette has to be the worst car I've ever owned for build quality, materials, fit and finish, and that, it a pretty long list of cars. ****ty cars.
Build quality, is why I drive a Pcar. Now sounding snobbish, go see anything else that isn't German and compare fit and finish, you'll see. Paying for anything else, IMHO is a wast of money -ESPECIALLY a rice car.
More food for thought
Another one is a water pump R& R for a Taurus SHO. EGAD! All that money and look at the car it's for? And also, that IS assuming the rest of the car hasn't fallen apart by then, and it probably would have.
In retrospect, the Vette has to be the worst car I've ever owned for build quality, materials, fit and finish, and that, it a pretty long list of cars. ****ty cars.
Build quality, is why I drive a Pcar. Now sounding snobbish, go see anything else that isn't German and compare fit and finish, you'll see. Paying for anything else, IMHO is a wast of money -ESPECIALLY a rice car.
More food for thought
09-12-2002, 01:22 PM
#26
Cruisin'
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Ca.
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I agree that everything needs maintenance, some on more cars than others. I've owned 4 fiat Bertone X1/9's, and dealt with the stigma that came with it. People say oh FIAT, fix it again Tony. blah blah blah. But in my opinion, this is one of the best cars I've ever owned. I never had one problem. why did I like this car so much, it was unique in its styling. My point is that Fiat owners never made any claims about how great their engineering was. Yes, some fiats had inherent problems and like the 911 engines, Fiat got a bad rap. So buy 911 for your own reasons, not by what others say or what you read.
09-12-2002, 02:08 PM
#27
Racer
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 355
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Wow, you folks have given me a lot to think about. I really, really love the build quality, feel, and performance of my 951. I truly think this car looks better in person than in a picture.
Everyone has brought up some great arguments and I appreciate the "concrete" evidence rather than just the intangibles. A couple of you suggested I drive a 911 hard for myself and decide. I've driven a 911 only once and it was 5 or 6 years ago. I really just puttered around the block in it. The one thing that stood out while driving it for that short time was that it felt like a go cart. VERY responsive!
I'm going to take the advice given here and find a nice example for sale and drive it. One of you mentioned that if I drive a 911 and still wonder if I should trade my 951 in for one then I probably really don't want to. I think that may be true but I'll see for myself soon!
I will let everyone know how it goes in a week or two after I've sampled the air cooled world.
Thanks!
Everyone has brought up some great arguments and I appreciate the "concrete" evidence rather than just the intangibles. A couple of you suggested I drive a 911 hard for myself and decide. I've driven a 911 only once and it was 5 or 6 years ago. I really just puttered around the block in it. The one thing that stood out while driving it for that short time was that it felt like a go cart. VERY responsive!
I'm going to take the advice given here and find a nice example for sale and drive it. One of you mentioned that if I drive a 911 and still wonder if I should trade my 951 in for one then I probably really don't want to. I think that may be true but I'll see for myself soon!
I will let everyone know how it goes in a week or two after I've sampled the air cooled world.
Thanks!
09-12-2002, 09:36 PM
#29
Pro
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Washington, D.C.
Posts: 707
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It's interesting that people say that, my experience has been that my '91 C2 cab gets FAR, FAR more looks from (envious) guys than it does from women. For this reason, my fiancee refers to it as the "sausage magnet".
09-12-2002, 10:24 PM
#30
Here's my 2-cents worth...as long as I can remember, I did most of the TOP 10 above (I LOVE THE 911)...then I bought a 944 b/c of price...to make a long story short, the 944 is for sale and I'm on the 911 prowl again...it's in my blood, gotta have that 911...