Air Conditioning not cooling
06-26-2004, 07:47 PM
#16
AutoX
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: atlanta
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have asked charlie that same question about using just the "duel cool" forward rear fender mounted condenser only. He seemed bent on selling me one of everything he has rather than offering an opinion regarding my question. I'm sure the rear condenser works well but for the money I'd like to try a Procooler and the smaller "duel" condenser on my sc. Since the car has a factory front condenser and a full size decklid one I'd imagine the additional smaller condenser with a fan would be sufficient.
I realize that a few hundred bucks will get you nowhere with Porche air conditioning but there must be a reasonable solution that doesnt cost $3000 installed.
I realize that a few hundred bucks will get you nowhere with Porche air conditioning but there must be a reasonable solution that doesnt cost $3000 installed.
06-27-2004, 09:28 AM
#17
The "Duehl-Kuehl" condenser, mounted in front the driver's side (US) rear tire, was developed after we designed and marketed the initial rearward (behind the tire) Kuehl condenser. This secondary Kuehl unit is intended for 911 or 930's that:
(a) are lacking the front OEM condenser, as found typically on 1978 factory ac, or
(b) need greater heat transfer.
The Duehl Kuehl unit came about when we were working on a 1977 that had only the stock deck lid condenser. We installed the original Kuehl Condenser
behind the tire, which runs in series with the deck lid condenser, using R134a.
Though we were happy to see vent temps drop down to the mid to low 40's,
the client had a very high metabolism rate (sweats alot), and he asked if we could get the temps down lower because his new bride refused to ride in any car that was not ice cold. So tied in the Duehl Kuehl unit in series with the reward Kuehl unit and the deck lid condenser (all Kuehl units have full time blower fans and stone guards, vibration mounts and stainless steel mounting hardware, they basically bolt on).
I have to admit that this client pushed the envelope with us. After we got the vent temps down to the high 30's to low 40's, he wanted more air! We had bolted on the center Kuehl vent and we thought it would be enough for him.
Again, he insisted that his spouse wanted more air movement. So, we hooked up two more Kuehl vents under the knee pad which are fed off the factory small slotted vents. About 8 weeks of trial and error (learning) and the client left with a smile (finally).
But to answer your initial question, no, the Kuehl condensers are not meant to replace or emliminate the rearward deck lid condenser, they supplement it.
It is all a matter of heat exchange required to remove the heat from the refrigerant.
Understand that by adding the Kuehl Condenser(s) you typically reduce the system pressures. Higher pressures mean high temperatures thrown off by the deck lid condenser. So if we can reduce the heat given off by the deck lid condenser, in essence moving it from the engine compartment to the outside of the car, that is a major secondary benefit.
(a) are lacking the front OEM condenser, as found typically on 1978 factory ac, or
(b) need greater heat transfer.
The Duehl Kuehl unit came about when we were working on a 1977 that had only the stock deck lid condenser. We installed the original Kuehl Condenser
behind the tire, which runs in series with the deck lid condenser, using R134a.
Though we were happy to see vent temps drop down to the mid to low 40's,
the client had a very high metabolism rate (sweats alot), and he asked if we could get the temps down lower because his new bride refused to ride in any car that was not ice cold. So tied in the Duehl Kuehl unit in series with the reward Kuehl unit and the deck lid condenser (all Kuehl units have full time blower fans and stone guards, vibration mounts and stainless steel mounting hardware, they basically bolt on).
I have to admit that this client pushed the envelope with us. After we got the vent temps down to the high 30's to low 40's, he wanted more air! We had bolted on the center Kuehl vent and we thought it would be enough for him.
Again, he insisted that his spouse wanted more air movement. So, we hooked up two more Kuehl vents under the knee pad which are fed off the factory small slotted vents. About 8 weeks of trial and error (learning) and the client left with a smile (finally).
But to answer your initial question, no, the Kuehl condensers are not meant to replace or emliminate the rearward deck lid condenser, they supplement it.
It is all a matter of heat exchange required to remove the heat from the refrigerant.
Understand that by adding the Kuehl Condenser(s) you typically reduce the system pressures. Higher pressures mean high temperatures thrown off by the deck lid condenser. So if we can reduce the heat given off by the deck lid condenser, in essence moving it from the engine compartment to the outside of the car, that is a major secondary benefit.
06-27-2004, 10:17 AM
#18
You have two choices when you attempt to install products (any product):
1) Get something that is "complete" and do it the right way once, or
2) Buy bits and pieces, here and there, and hope it works.
Our preference when we market our products, is that we prefer to sell a product that works. Since we have never attempted to do what you wish, run just the smaller Duehl Kuehl with the stock system, we are hesitant to sell it. And, since we have never engineered one here in the shop, we would have to drop everything we are doing, rip apart a system in a car, figure out how to package it so it installs correctly, test it, and then compose instructions, hardware and ship....... ahhh for just one unit?
The Duehl Kuehl requires a mininum of hardware for mounting. Then you have hose connections, hangers and wiring. If you order just the Duehl Kuehl, you are missing about 25-30 feet of barrier hose, and the community knows non-barrier original hose leaked from day one. You also don't have a high low pressure switch which the original system was missing and the community knows you need.
Unfortunately we are not Wal-Mart and we never intend to be, you just can't walk in, pick a few things off the shelf you think might work or you wish to test.
I'd be glad to sell you what ever you wish, if we have it, however there is a cost to figure it out, put it together. package it and ship it. And, if it works for you great, if not, then how would you feel?
1) Get something that is "complete" and do it the right way once, or
2) Buy bits and pieces, here and there, and hope it works.
Our preference when we market our products, is that we prefer to sell a product that works. Since we have never attempted to do what you wish, run just the smaller Duehl Kuehl with the stock system, we are hesitant to sell it. And, since we have never engineered one here in the shop, we would have to drop everything we are doing, rip apart a system in a car, figure out how to package it so it installs correctly, test it, and then compose instructions, hardware and ship....... ahhh for just one unit?
The Duehl Kuehl requires a mininum of hardware for mounting. Then you have hose connections, hangers and wiring. If you order just the Duehl Kuehl, you are missing about 25-30 feet of barrier hose, and the community knows non-barrier original hose leaked from day one. You also don't have a high low pressure switch which the original system was missing and the community knows you need.
Unfortunately we are not Wal-Mart and we never intend to be, you just can't walk in, pick a few things off the shelf you think might work or you wish to test.
I'd be glad to sell you what ever you wish, if we have it, however there is a cost to figure it out, put it together. package it and ship it. And, if it works for you great, if not, then how would you feel?
06-28-2004, 06:38 PM
#19
Track Day
Join Date: May 2002
Location: North Bethesda, MD
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Does anyone know if Griffiths is still in business. Even though I spoke with him two weeks ago, when I called recently a recording came on and said the 800 # had been disconnected. As an aside, I have found his products to be 1st rate, quickly delivered, and he is always willing to provide a lot of info over the phone if problems arise.
06-28-2004, 06:43 PM
#20
Burning Brakes
Charlie's been actively posting, above. Try sending him an e-mail from his website. www.griffiths.com.
06-29-2004, 07:55 AM
#21
Griffiths is still in business, since 1984, however we are having problems
with Sprint who handles our 800 number, and sometimes I wonder how long they will be in business. There are two other methods to contact us in the event the 800 number is down, dial direct 973-300-0812 or email
sales@griffiths.com
We apologize on behalf of Sprint and the Fed for deregulating
the once reliable phone system.
with Sprint who handles our 800 number, and sometimes I wonder how long they will be in business. There are two other methods to contact us in the event the 800 number is down, dial direct 973-300-0812 or email
sales@griffiths.com
We apologize on behalf of Sprint and the Fed for deregulating
the once reliable phone system.
