Ryan Perrella

Anyone ever gotten a price to retrofit a multilink rear suspension from saya 993 or 996 into a pre 89 911?

I have found complete rear suspension parts from 996 cars for less than $1000 in teh past and know that the multilink rear is far far far superior to the 60's era trailing arm type. I am currently restoring an 87 carrera coupe and am doing a complete strip down of the car. I wonder what it would cost to fit these items into the rear of the car. Obvioulsy allot of fabrication would be needed to accomplish this. But price aside (being the obvious negative of the deal) Could the 911's rear chasis be made and cut to fit the 996 suspension. I read an article in a Excellence magazine about a VW buss fitted with this type of suspension and that prompted the idea. That suspension was mounted to a tubular frame. So Perhaps it could be done if there was a tubular framework into the car already or when one would be fabricated.

Anyone have any clues. Any suspension people familiar with the rear end of the 911 please respond and lend feedback.

Tim K

Some guy retrofitted 993 suspension setup in a 912 turned 993 race car.
The article said that Cary Eisenlohr of Eisenlohr Racing Products did the work.

No affiliation.

Article in Excellence (October 2000).

Tim.

Ryan Perrella

thanks tim i'll have to check thqat out i think i have that issue.

I was reading in Excellence August 2003 about Fabcar that did a conversion into the above mentioned VW bus

JackOlsen

I've never heard about a 996 being used, but 993 rear ends are swapped into a lot of race cars. It's not cheap, though.

I believe Steve Weiner from Rennsport Systems has done it. Hopefully he'll chime in.

Cary Eisenlohr has done it, too, but he shows up here less frequently than Steve.

Cary E

I’ve never tried it with a 996 but, just taking a quick look at it seems like there would be a lot more fabrication involved. First thing to keep in mind is that a 993 tub is still somewhat of the 911 family and the 996 is an all new much stiffer tub that was designed for a multi link suspension hence, the carriage unit doesn’t use as much bracing. Using a 911 tub you’d have to stiffen the rear significantly to accommodate 996 rear carriage which would most likely make it a heavier conversion to boot. I also don’t feel the 996 has any strong geometrical advantages that warrant the added work and expense.

I’ve worked with several different people over the past few years doing these conversions and as much as I don’t like to recommend online I feel there are many people out there that don’t fully understand how to do it properly. So I’ll list the shops I think are the best and hopefully it won’t get edited out. On the west coast I’d go with Loren Beggs of 911 Design, he has a really good jig and can have your car in and out the same week. I think he charges around $4000. In the Midwest I’d go with Brian at Midwest Eurosport, really good guys and know their stuff (not sure what they charge) and on the east cost I’d go with Auto Associates of Canton. I know Kelly Moss also has a jig for it as well and of course there work is always very good as well.. These are all people that you can be sure once it’s put in, there’s no guess work… just take it out and drive it. If it’s put in without figuring the correct roll couple front to rear the car will fight itself and never see it’s potential being very uncomfortable to drive. When done right, I like the feel even better than a factory 993 car because the 911 front works nicer. Now I’m really going to push it and tell you about one more thing. I’ve just finished a front under tray “girdle” that replaces my 935 cross member allowing the use the Smart Racing power steering rack and at the same time stiffens the whole front end of the car. I feel it’s the best parts we’ve made yet (John ….hope I didn’t over do it)

JackOlsen

Well, there you go. The man himself.

That's the last time I'll make a guess as to who'll be online.

Steve Weiner-Rennsport Systems

Hi Jack:

LOL,.....We have not done one of these yet, although we almost did a conversion like this for Hank Watts a few years ago. He needed it completed sooner than we could get to it so a shop in the Reno area installed a 993 rear suspension and 993 TT engine in his '72 T.

Cary is right, there is a LOT more to this than simply fabricating everything and bolting it in. The 993 5-link rear end must be precisely positioned, relative to the front, to make the car work properly.

r911

How much wt. does that 993 rear susp. add?

Steve Weiner-Rennsport Systems

LOL,..I don't know and to me, it matters little.

The HUGE improvement in suspension geometry more than makes up for any weight increase.

On the track, its a quantum leap.

r911

What exatly are the benefits? Articles I've seen talked about more comfort over bumps (not a real strong benefit on the track).

Is it reduced camber change during hard cornering (body roll induced)?

JackOlsen

Multi-link as opposed to trailing arm, for starters.

r911

Understood.

I am asking about the benefit of the change in terms of wheel movement/contact patch...

JackOlsen

I found the pictures, but hopefully someone with more expertise than me will explain it to us both.

Cary E

Jack … nice pics … whose cars?

With the multi-link you have a lot more control over the geometry than with a semi-trailing arm. Your instant centers, roll centers are better, you don’t have the same anti-squat issues and the bump steer is adjustable. You also have different camber gains. All of this keeps the tire flatter and the car more responsive through the turn. The results is the car is just planted when it’s installed and set up correctly..... no sure if it rides any better with the same wheel rates ... don't know.. could be

JackOlsen

Unfortunately, not mine. The yellow car is from the Kelly Moss website. The last one is from Steve Timmins' (the 3.6 swap guru) website. He appears to be teaching himself to do it, with a very ambitious race car project.