performo

Hi Jack
Do you the links to the webbsites of Kelly Moss and Steve Timmins?

BJJones

Wouldnt it be cheaper and more effective (and cheaper) to buy a 993 T4 and junk the interior in favour of a racing one!?

Steve Weiner-Rennsport Systems

I'd just add to Cary's descriptions that toe control is really critical in cars with 60% of their weight over the rear wheels.

The 993-996's 5-link rear suspension does a MUCH better job of maintaining accurate toe settings (position) through the full range of suspension travel than the 911 or 964 does. Further, these suspensions (in stock form) have a degree of automatic toe correction to prevent toe-out under trailing throttle.

This last dynamic is a big reason why 911's will spin when you let off on the gas pedal,....its not just forward weight transfer,...

JackOlsen

http://www.kellymoss.com/

http://instant-g.com/

Cary E

Now days that might be true but when we first started doing this conversion it wasn't the case. However, it's easier to get the early car lighter and I think the 911 with the 935 type front suspension works a lot better than a 993 front plus it's really easy to get the roll center where you want it ... on the 993 front it's pretty much what it is. Now, the wheel bearing set up is much nicer on the 993 and the scrub starts out a little better but it's easy to change on the 911

Cookie Porsche

Howzit,
I have just done it (993 rear into 74 tub) and it is not too bad if you really put your head to it. Steve's right - the rear must be 100% straight and it took me two try's, but from here it's pure fun. Big wheels, brakes, discs, etc just bolt in and wheel align is a song.
Will report later on driving the thing.
Regards
Thomas

Ryan Perrella

upon futrther investigation

the 993 seems to be the way to go for this project. Although I will have a car with a wider track and I was looking to go with no larger than 9inch flares. But I may have to put turbo flares on the car to accomidate the wider track of the 993 cars which also have a much deeper offset on the wheels.

What is a fair price to pay for having the car on a Jig and having the mounting pounts fabricated and having the car all line up? I have contacts for the actual suspension assembly but what should one pay to have this done. I got a quote of $3,000 to do this but if i calculated that at a shop rate of $100 an hour which in itself would be high, I would have a 30 hour job, would it really take 30 hours to get teh alignment done properly on a car in a shop that already is set up to do this work? I think its pretty high? I was looking to have it done for $1,500 but is $3,000 about what it costs, is the job that time consuming to justify a $3,000 bill?

Ryan Perrella

upon futrther investigation

the 993 seems to be the way to go for this project. Although I will have a car with a wider track and I was looking to go with no larger than 9inch flares. But I may have to put turbo flares on the car to accomidate the wider track of the 993 cars which also have a much deeper offset on the wheels.

What is a fair price to pay for having the car on a Jig and having the mounting pounts fabricated and having the car all line up? I have contacts for the actual suspension assembly but what should one pay to have this done. I got a quote of $3,000 to do this but if i calculated that at a shop rate of $100 an hour which in itself would be high, I would have a 30 hour job, would it really take 30 hours to get teh alignment done properly on a car in a shop that already is set up to do this work? I think its pretty high? I was looking to have it done for $1,500 but is $3,000 about what it costs, is the job that time consuming to justify a $3,000 bill?

Cary E

I would say your guess of 15 to 20 hours would be closer once someone has a jig if you give them a bare tub to start with. If they have to take everything apart, then it's another story. The extra cost is going to come from the fact they are having fabricate new shock towers and carriage support mounts and tie in your roll cage. With all that considered $3000 doesn't seem to bad and then maybe you could grind them to 2800 or even 2500 if you do things to make it easy as possible for them

Ryan Perrella

ok Cary thanks

You mentioned before about a power steering unit for a new type 935 front suspension? Could you elaborate on that. I would be interested in a power steering unit assuming its reasonably priced. Something with a quick ratio and that could be adjusted based on road speed and have good power at low speeds (below 20mph ) and progressively have less power assistance as speeds rise yet still give excellent feedback that the non assisted units are known for.

Cary E

The rack is the one that Smart Racing Products is offering. I'm building a new support that holds it. The rack is really nice but I believe over $2000. Hopefully I'll have a picture of the new cross member in the next couple weeks. It will likely add about $250-$300 to the existing 935 front suspension.

r911

Cary, Is the 935 F. Suspension setup suitable (and safe) for a street car? How strong is it (say, if you run into a ditch or hit a bigger bump than is common on tracks)?

Cary E

Randy, thanks for your concerns. The 935 style front end has exposed rod ends that need to be periodically inspected and obviously server weather has a big effect on them. Attached towards the front of there car are the triangles mounts that hold the tension links. These mounts are designed to tear away under impact thus, making them not DOT legal. The front end was design for the sole purpose of racing only and whereas it is very strong, even stronger than a stock set up in some ways; it was not designed or approved for street use so, as a result, I can’t recommend or endorse it for highway use. I hope that answers your question without sounding to stuffy on my end.

r911

Thanks Cary. I also understand the need for "phraseology."

NicolasW

While I don't think I can add to what Cary has said, I did some research on my own about a month ago and here are my findings.

There is a guy with the handle "Howard" on this forum that had the conversion done on his car. You can do a search on his username in this forum and contact him (sorry I don't give out other peoples e-mail addresses).

Howard's conversion was done buy a guy named Carlos Granados at Stuttgart Service (19841 Valley Blvd., Walnut, CA 91789, (909) 595-1936). The entire area is plasma cut and removed and he charges about $4,000 (labor only). Apparantly Carlos has build 3 cars with the 993 rear suspension conversion. The first car won the Tribute to Lemans in 1999. The second car was also VERY fast, the 3.8 liter engine was removed and replaced with 993 TT engine. Howard's was the 3rd car and is a 1975 acid dipped tub with a weight of 2090 lbs.

As was mentioned and shown in pictures above (yellow car), Kelly Moss also does the conversion....here's what Jeff Stone told me about the conversion (via email):



There you have it. I plan on doing this when I build my car from the ground up. If anything has more to add I'd love to hear it.