kenshi

Loren is probably right...

But, I did not buy my 911 because it has the most HP or best dyno reads. I think the kid with the tricked out Civic has more HP than me

I bought my 911 because i like how it feels. I like the Wong chip because it makes my 911 feel better than with the stock or the Europroduct chip.

I highly recommend Steve's chip to anyone and feel that it is the best mod i have done on the car.


alf

m42racer

Loren,

Ouch!
Your right I don't know, but at least I have an excuse. You don't.

r911

NBD chip -- Jack, that is really trick! Having both maps is definitely the way to go for an aftermarket chip.

Loren, You have a lot of knowledge to contibute, and I agree with debunking the vast amt. of bunk on this and other threads and boards. But, 1. you encourage the trash talk by indulging, instead of maintaining a higher level -- hard tho that may be, and 2. your claims are a little off the data themselves. Instead of saying that xx is not true, you oght to say that xx is not proven, and since the affirmative or one with a claim has the burden of proof, they have not met the standard. Also, recognize that it is very difficult to sway emotion with logic -- otherwise there would be few religions in this world. This is esp. so when somebody has just spent a lot of $$ on something. They really don't want to hear -- in essence -- that they stupid and wasted the $$.

Finally, the poster who said that the subjective experience was what is's all about is spot on. That is esp. so with a POrsche where we often talk about the synergism of the performance, and that the car just feels better than a Camaro (or something) that is actually faster. The one fly in that ointment is the placebo effect -- if someone told you they chnaged the chip, described what you would feel, hear etc. and you then drove the car (after paying them) and -- in fact -- nothing was changed, but you had a much better experience, then the $$ is wasted. f all that took place and you couldn't tell a difference but a new chip did allow a big feel difference then the $$ is well spent. So I'm saying that even subjective feell can be objectively verified and should be.

Lorenfb

Thanks for your comments. Points well made.

Have Fun
Loren
'88 3.2

Chris Picklo

Yes, someone please post it.

I've seen the results before from a same day dyno run : )

KC911

I stated that I wasn't going to post again on this matter until after my dyno runs ...well, I lied ! I would REALLY like to have this capability on my SW chip (Steve, if you read this or ), does anyone else know if this is even doable on a 3.2 chip? I'd have no problems plunking down $ for SW's 'maps' on a switchable chip like that (as I bet would many other satisfied SW customers). Steve may not read this however (as I know from his comments, that 'the FUN' has been removed from these discussions, and that is truly sad... he's a class act). I will email him soon to discuss this. Loren, you are obviously very knowledgable and experienced with chips and have a LOT to contribute to these discussions, but your approach has put a lot of people off. In my career (systems programming) I've met a few very bright guys like that (in fact, some would say the same thing about me), so I'm used to it and it doesn't bother me a bit, but Randy makes some valid points. Loren did you receive my pm from Pelican? Let me know if you haven't...the offer to assist with my dyno runs is open and I would welcome your assistance. As I stated in the pm, I would dyno the chip in CA if I were in your position for a lot less $ than flying to NC, but I'd welcome the chance to buy you a beer and discuss chips and 911s in general.

And I really am having FUN with my 911, it hasn't stopped for a minute since I bought her!

Keith Craver

Lorenfb

I'll have to setup my schedule, but I'll go back. Anything that was done with the 964
chip can be done on the 3.2 and much easier even switching without a mechanical
switch.

Have Fun
Loren
'88 3.2

emcon5

I don't have a dog in this fight, but I have to wave the big red BS flag on this one.

There is a lot of junk out there that does absolutely nothing for performance, which still sells quite well. Off the top of my head, K&N filters, E-Ram, split fire spark plugs, the little tornado things. Something about "a fool and his money". Hell, I have heard of people claiming 12hp from changing plug wires.

I personally think that some performance chips do work, and based on the apparent unanimous positive feedback, Steve Wong’s seems to fall in this category. Has anyone bought one of Steve's chips and not been happy? I haven't heard of anyone.

Timing/fuel mapping is a compromise, a delicate balance of fuel economy, fuel quality, power, emissions, and engine life. It is certainly possible that choosing a different balance than Porsche did could make more power, but may have not met the requirements set by the factory for the other pieces of the puzzle.

Tom

Ed Bighi

This thread has been a good read and I think this kind of discussion is healthy. Screw not saying what we want to say and being careful not to upset people. We are gentlemen, and like good gentlemen, we should be able to **** each other off in an acceptable manner. Speaking our minds is what we come to this board for. So long as we don't make personal insults and bring mothers into it. Though insulting people outside the board like rice boys is fine. Chips, can and do work. It is just about how much tradeoff happens for other factors like reliability or bad fuel. Just look at the improvements that can be made with chip changes on turbo cars if one is willing to give up some long term durability. Though the durability issue applies more on turbocharged applications. The most important issue is how much time the chip tuner spends on a particular chip. I also think the factory did detune the factory chips. Especially on turbos. I say that because the best chip I have ever tried on an otherwise stock 944 turbo was a chip that my old mechanic got from Norbert Singer to be used in the original 944 turbo cup cars. He used manage a 962 race team back in the eighties. He got a couple of units and burned a few more. Norbert told him not to sell it. No other chip intended for a stock (except for exhaust) 944 turbo ever felt like that one. Basically just like some autothority except all the optimization was done at the factory by factory gurus. While I haven't tried a Steve Wong chip, maybe that is why people are raving. Maybe he is one of those few people who really spent the time remapping the thing instead of just raising the rev limit. As for placebo, heck, placebo is like sex. If it feels good, it is good. That is why we drive 911s. As long as no motors are blown. And considering Bruce Anderson's massive and gross exageration the rod bolt issue, chances are it will not happen. Heck, I'll try one of these Wong chips. If it turns out to be a piece of sheiss, then I'll send it back. After all, he offers a satisfaction guarantee.

CamB

My understanding of factory timing/fuel mapping is exactly the same as Tom's. I think that Porsche did leave something on the table - how much is a good question.

Loren says:

One of the best posts (TimT - Pelican Forum) describes how a perfoamance chip
and mods should be developed/tweaked:

Loren copied TimT's procedure for dyno tuning

The proper way it's done. Great isn't it! Simple & very logical. No guessing here.
Jack Olsen could probably squeeze a little more out of the 3.6 using this approach.

This is also how I understand it - basically I imagine the factory does this, but leaves some wiggle room for production, fuel, temperature and gas variances (and whatever else). In other words, mapping for maximum power isn't the goal.

So if:

- the factory made compromises; and
- someone with a PC AND a dyno could get more power,

then it is possible, IMHO, that a chip could produce more power. Thus, I humbly submit that not all chips suck - especially if they are a "chip for 3.2 911s which have SSIs and a sports exhaust", for which the factory standard mapping may be unsuitable.

However, I instantly disbelieve any chip which promises more power, driveability AND fuel economy. Something's gotta give...

Mark sP

FWIW and I am a technophobe, my car is completely changed by the SW chip. The car is awesome now, where it was sluggish and lazy before. 2000 miles since fitting the chip. No worries here.

RevHigh

I like my AutoThority chip(s) & DME upgrades on all my cars. You can get custom tuned versions or versions of simlar cars with your specs that have been tuned.

I posted my experiences under S. Wong's thread.