epbrown01

I drive an SC (in the 911 sector) and so can't test this, but Loren doesn't strike me as being amenable to reason on this subject. I think a dyno'd car will be accused of using an inaccurately set-up dyno, or being at the wrong altitude for the test to be valid, or he'll check the weather and decide the humidity was responsible for the hp increase. Eventually, he'll resort to little green men.

Emanuel

427grips

THANK YOU ALL!!!! WHAT A GREAT DEBATE, I WILL HASH OVER YOUR INFO AND MAKE A DECISION SOON.

Thanks for your inputs,,

Rms


"Rodney King: can't we all just get along?"

Diamond Blue

I ordered a chip from Steve W. the beginning of December. I was not able to install the chip until last Thursday night. The previous owner and myself went out for a test ride. The po has owned the car for the last 12 years. We did our test runs and I went to the shop, pulled the motronic out of the car. Looked at the bottom and realized that it had already been opened up before. Opened it and found a Autothority chip. The po did not know about the chip. So this chip was installed sometime prior to 1992. It is a 1988 911 Commemorative edition. Installed the new chip. I drove the car alone and noticed two changes. First it was stronger from 4500 to 5800 rpm range and the sound was significantly different beginning at 4500 rpm. Took the car back and picked up the po and had him drive it. I didn't share what I felt about the changes in the car. His comments were almost identical as my impressions. Remember he has owned the car for 12 years and knows the car well. Next day I called Steve and talked about the difference in the chips. If only every business had customer service like SteveW. I was considering returning the chip before talking to Steve, after, I am keeping this since the chip has more safety margin built in for bad gas, poor engine tune than the Autothority with timing advance of up to 33 degrees and a redline of 7040 rpm. I feel thet the safety margin that Steve has on his chip helps protect against bad gas and marginal engine tune. There was not significant difference in performance but I noticed a difference and the change in sound to a throaty growl only makes me smile more. I also had read all the posts about how it was the placebo affect that Lorenfb claims is the reason so many have noticed a difference in their cars. I will not say that there is more HP or torgue but I notice the difference and thats what counts to me.

As for Lorenfb I have heard enough from him about his take on chips. I would NEVER do business with him based upon the attacks that he has made about chips and in particular Steve Wong. Steve has been totally up front about what his product does and won't do for you. Loren i have not seen comments about how great your service and products are. I have on the other hand read so many great comments on Steve's products and service that I lost count long ago. Do a seach on the PP board. You don't seem to get the fact that you are alienating future customers over your attacks and yes you are entitled to your opinions, that is what they are until you prove otherwise, since you have not proved that there is not an improvement in performance.

Lorenfb

First, I don't sell/solicit anything on this forum or other forums. Second,
this is a public forum where hopefully ideas are exchanged and opposing
views can be made without personal attacks.

My basis for making comments about performance chips results from
over 15 years involvement with Porsche dealers and independents
on many Porsche models, especially the 3.2. I've tested many chips
over the years have seen a multitude of problems because of them.
I hate to see new Porsche owners without much technical/engine
background possibly wasting money on performance chips that
yield little and may cause future problems.

As I said, this should be a forum where intelligent and objective
facts are presented. All I hear are subjective responses to the
issue of performance chips. Someone has mentioned what he
was told about the timing of this chip is versus the Autothority chip.
Has anyone checked with a timing light at various RPMs, e.g.
idle, 2000, 3500, and 4000, for the stock chip and then the
same for the performance chips? This would be a very simple
test to verify the so called timing margin.

As has been mentioned on other forums, pinging/detonation
which may occur with these performance chips may not be
heard while driving. The only time one may find out is when
internal engine damage has been done, e.g. broken rings,
damaged pistons/burnt valves.

Furthermore, I've never personally attacked promoters of performance
chips. My comments are directed at the marketing hype/claims, e.g.
"dramatic improvements", 5 to 10 HP gains. Is it unreasonable to
ask for data to backup these claims, especially since they are being
presented to members of a well known Porsche web site?

Have Fun
Loren
'88 3.2

Diamond Blue

Lorenfb

The facts are that 911chips, andial, Autothority and all the other chip makers would not sell chips unless they made a difference. All of them still sell chips. You ask for facts to support these claims, but the counter claims then need to have the same documentation as to why they don't work. You evidently will not or can't provide us with what you keep telling we need to see, the proof. By listening to you it seems that we all must be idiots who can't feel a difference even after driving our cars for thousands of miles. Your assumption in judging how much knowledge of these systems by a generalization of members of the forums is ignorant. Get your proof and present it to us showing that chips don't not work. The presenting of proof get to flow both ways. I want the facts from you without the subjective rhetoric we have becoming accustom to. I am only asking you to provide to the members what you want everyone else to provide. Again I am happy with my selection and would recommend it to anyone who asks.

Dave Thomas

I give up on this guy. He's firmly entrenched in his position, he believes he's the supreme authority on the subject, and he refuses to acknowledge the personal experience of MANY others. Trying to have a reasonable discussion with him is hopeless.

KC911

I can't seem to access Pelican right now, but will post a link later to a similar thread over there. A few of us 'pelicanheads' in NC have just scheduled a dyno day for Feb. 14, and I will be benchmarking a stock chip vs. the Steve Wong chip that I've had in my car for quite a while. Although this will NOT provide a statistical basis for either side of the argument (I'll probably only do 2-3 runs per chip), I will be posting the results on Pelican for all to see and to derive their own conclusions. Irregardless of the dyno results, I'm definitely keeping my SW chip, as I too am a 'happy camper', and we'll let the 'chips fall where they may' (...pun intended). Loren, I'll be emailing you privately once I can access Pelican to discuss this further. Once again, I'm not doing this to 'prove anybody wrong', etc. but my curiosity has gotten the best of me, and I truly want to see dyno results on 'my' car with the mods I've made (sport muffler, euro premuffler, and SW chip). I will agree with Loren on one point...there's absolutely no need for 'attacks' from either side of the argument...

Keith Craver

edited...here's the Pelican link: http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showt...hreadid=143032

Dave Thomas

I agree, Keith, maybe some hard dyno figures will get Loren to see the light. My car has exactly the same mods as yours. It is due for a valve adjustment and the cap/rotor/plug wires need to be replaced, so as soon as I get those things done I will make a concerted effort to set up a dyno run here (St. Louis region). I could run it with the stock chip and my latest SW ship.

And I also agree - no attack necessary and I hope my comments aren't taken that way. Believe me, you'd know if I was attacking. However, I've just had it with Loren - he just refuses to consider any viewpoint other than his own, and when he's presented with valid arguements he just dismisses them. I'm tired of wasting my energy on him. This has gone on ad infinum on Pelican.

Lorenfb

How much more simple can the issue be stated:

A PRODUCT IS BEING SOLD WHERE OBJECTIVE CLAIMS ARE BEING MADE.
LET'S HAVE THE OBJECTIVE PROOF BY THE SELLER TO SUPPORT THE CLAIMS.......

Is this too difficult to understand?

Good Luck
Loren
'88 3.2

Mark in Hermosa

Hey Loren.

The only point, and not to start an argument with you, that I would like to make is, if the buyer is happy with the perf gains and no ill effects have occured, what is the problem?

Why should the seller supply objective proof if subjective results are supplied by the current owners? The key word is subjective, I know. But seat of the pants, to me, is much better than any dyno in my own car.

Chris Picklo

Objective proof?

I don't care what any dyno says: track your car with and without a chip - look at your lap times- PROOF!

This is why stock classes can't run chips - they make a big difference.

KC911

This will be my last post on this matter until I've performed my dyno runs. Loren, you're not going to change 'our' minds (even if 'we' are dead wrong), and guys, we're not going to change Loren's either, but that's OK ! I am going to post a link from Steve Wong's web site (which didn't even exist when I made my purchase) and had no influence on my decision to buy. There is also a related thread on Pelican where someone did many 'runs' with a G-tech to measure hp which also validates what we ALL (except for Loren) have been saying. Folks, don't take my (or any other single person's) word for it...search the threads, read the comments (pro & con), and then make your own decision. Here's the links:

http://www.911chips.com/dyno.html
http://www.911chips.com/BAchips.htm

ps: Loren, did you get the pm I sent you from Pelican earlier today?

Before I go, let me reiterate that the chip alone will NOT be a huge performance gain by itself (and I just noticed that one of my quotes stating that appears on Steve's site), but yes, I can 'feel' the difference. And I am absolutely 100% happy with my upgrade...one of the cheapest and most effective "bang for the buck" mods that I've made on my car.

Keith Craver

Dave Thomas

Reality TV idea:

Let's put Loren and the guy who was pushing the eRam electric supercharger (do a search on Pelican) on an island together, and see which one commits suicide first in order to get away from the other one.

Lorenfb

As I said, all performance chips are basically the same. Check out
the above posted web site's comparisons. The difference over stock
and ALL the chips is in the "noise" level. Some even perform worse
than stock.

(www.911chips.com/BAchips.htm)

My point has been made! And you guys think there's been a new "discovery"
that previously wasn't "found".

Have Fun
Loren
'88 3.2

sushinav

For the love of God, does anybody have a dyno run comparison out there?
Not the 911chips.com site either please.