Cabriolets
01-21-2003, 12:24 AM
#1
Advanced
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: raleigh nc
Posts: 75
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Cabriolets
How can you tell if its a factory Cabriolet or a coupe or Targa conversion? Does it matter to the value of the car if it is a conversion? I have read that Targa's and Cabriolets are 25% weaker than coupes structurally. Is this only a problem when crashing? If a coupe without a whaletail is 350 pounds lighter at 65 mph, What happens to a cabriolet at 65 when the top's down? What does the whaletail do for a Cabriolet when the tops down? How is the aerodynamics compared to a coupe with the top up at high speed? A seller claimed only 1800 Cabriolets were sold in the US in 83. Is that true? Are they more collectable than coupes? How many do you think are left? I feel like a 3 year old asking all these questions!
That ought to keep you guys busy for a minute or two! lol
Thanks. I'm looking at a couple of 83 Cabriolets in the morning... <img border="0" alt="[jumper]" title="" src="graemlins/jumper.gif" />
That ought to keep you guys busy for a minute or two! lol
Thanks. I'm looking at a couple of 83 Cabriolets in the morning... <img border="0" alt="[jumper]" title="" src="graemlins/jumper.gif" />
Trending Topics
01-21-2003, 07:41 PM
#8
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Join Date: May 2001
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 424
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Mike,
If you look at the VIN # on the cars, I believe the 4th character on cabs is a C. (Not sure what the 4th character is on Targas or coupes, though.)
I'm almost 100% positive that a real cab would be more valuable than a targa to cab conversion. How much more valuable is something that's much harder to answer.
As far as structural integrity, I believe the weaker structure of the cabs and targas contribute to flexing under hard cornering. However, I don't think this is an issue for your average street driver/occasional autocross & Driver's Ed. But if you wanted a serious track car, then you'd want a coupe, and a non-sunroof one at that.
You ask some very interesting questions about aerodynamics -- I don't have any quantifiable answers. Not sure how the top up cab compares with the coupe -- I would guess that it's close, with a slight edge going to the coupe. Whale tail with the top down -- well, my '90 has a moveable spoiler that should stabilize the car at higher speeds. I haven't noticed any appreciable difference when cruising at 80-90mph with the top up or down.
Oh, and if the whale tail's been added, make sure there's a front spoiler to balance the aerodynamics.
Good luck!
-- Melissa
If you look at the VIN # on the cars, I believe the 4th character on cabs is a C. (Not sure what the 4th character is on Targas or coupes, though.)
I'm almost 100% positive that a real cab would be more valuable than a targa to cab conversion. How much more valuable is something that's much harder to answer.
As far as structural integrity, I believe the weaker structure of the cabs and targas contribute to flexing under hard cornering. However, I don't think this is an issue for your average street driver/occasional autocross & Driver's Ed. But if you wanted a serious track car, then you'd want a coupe, and a non-sunroof one at that.
You ask some very interesting questions about aerodynamics -- I don't have any quantifiable answers. Not sure how the top up cab compares with the coupe -- I would guess that it's close, with a slight edge going to the coupe. Whale tail with the top down -- well, my '90 has a moveable spoiler that should stabilize the car at higher speeds. I haven't noticed any appreciable difference when cruising at 80-90mph with the top up or down.
Oh, and if the whale tail's been added, make sure there's a front spoiler to balance the aerodynamics.
Good luck!
-- Melissa
01-21-2003, 08:55 PM
#9
Advanced
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: raleigh nc
Posts: 75
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks everyone! This is the Vin# that came off the registration, not the car.
WPOEA0915DS170508
It was a nasty day here in raleigh, A cold rainy day is not a good day for Porsche shopping, but I still got a lot accomplished.
WPOEA0915DS170508
It was a nasty day here in raleigh, A cold rainy day is not a good day for Porsche shopping, but I still got a lot accomplished.
01-21-2003, 09:03 PM
#10
AutoX
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Calgary, AB, Canada
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I could be totally wrong about this; but I was under the impression original Cabs do not have back seats in them.
My Cab converted from a Targa has back seats, which is one way you are supposed to tell the difference.
Can someone with an original Cab confirm this?
In my case it was pretty obvious it was a conversion, as they did not make a Cab in 1980.
Mark Perry
80SC Cabriolet
My Cab converted from a Targa has back seats, which is one way you are supposed to tell the difference.
Can someone with an original Cab confirm this?
In my case it was pretty obvious it was a conversion, as they did not make a Cab in 1980.
Mark Perry
80SC Cabriolet
01-21-2003, 09:15 PM
#11
Intermediate
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Detroit
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Original cabs do in fact come with back seat bottoms and backs that fold down to a storage
shelf. The seats are perfect sized for kids and munchkins!
Regarding the s/n:
WPOEA091xDS170001-1781 IS A 1983 911SC Cabriolet
172hp at 5500 rpm
The Targas for that year had a s/n that finished
in DS160001-1430.
shelf. The seats are perfect sized for kids and munchkins!
Regarding the s/n:
WPOEA091xDS170001-1781 IS A 1983 911SC Cabriolet
172hp at 5500 rpm
The Targas for that year had a s/n that finished
in DS160001-1430.
01-21-2003, 09:44 PM
#13
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Join Date: May 2001
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 424
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva"> Regarding the s/n:
WPOEA091xDS170001-1781 IS A 1983 911SC Cabriolet </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Very interesting! I wonder when they started differentiating the 4th character in the VIN by body type (coupe, cab, or targa).
At any rate, thanks to Huey for the tidbit of info!
-- Melissa
WPOEA091xDS170001-1781 IS A 1983 911SC Cabriolet </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Very interesting! I wonder when they started differentiating the 4th character in the VIN by body type (coupe, cab, or targa).
At any rate, thanks to Huey for the tidbit of info!
-- Melissa
01-22-2003, 11:54 AM
#14
Rennlist Member
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: NY
Posts: 1,907
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
i have an 83 cab. put a turbo motor in the car but did purchase the car with the original 3.0 sc motor in it. It does come with back seats and when the top is down you do have more wind resistance so it does effect speed to a degree. I do notice that it flexes more than a coupe. But there is nothing better than taking a cruise on the highway on a summer nite with the top down. Especially with a 350 turbo motor tucked in there.
01-22-2003, 12:17 PM
#15
Pro
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Washington, D.C.
Posts: 707
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My '91 C2 cab's VIN is WP0C___________, so there may be some truth to that theory.
My car has rear seats, with fold-down top sections. The only year 911 cabs that I know of to come without rear seats are the US model 1992-1994 cabs. This was the case because Porsche didn't want to do the engineering to put 3-point (as opposed to lap-only) seatbelts in the cab (as were required by US regulations starting with the 1992 model year), so they just deleted the seats entirely and put in the storage boxes in their place.
As for aerodynamics, I remember reading that, because the 911 cab top is so structurally rigid (i.e., the cloth is taut, well supported and does not flap), there is no difference in aerodynamics with the top up. As a result, the top speed numbers (with the top up) are the same for coupe and cab. Obviously, with the top down the aerodynamics suffer.
As for turbulence with the top down, consider getting the factory windstop - I got one for my car and, with it up, can drive at 80mph with the top down and carry on a normal conversation.
I would imagine that the whaletail would provide added downforce at speed, regardless of whether the car is a coupe or convertible (top down or up). Although my car came with the electric 964 wing, I had it replaced with a fixed "whaletail" -with no discernable effect on the car's "feel" at speed.
As to structural rigidity, there is no doubt that a 911 cab will be less stiff than a 911 coupe. Keep in mind, however, that a 911 in general is much stiffer than the average car, so the cab is still relatively stiff. I added a front strut tower brace to help stiffen my car. I only really notice the flex when driving diagonally up a curb ramps - never when driving the car normally.
Although 1983 cabs are relatively rare because it was the first year for the cab, I don't think that they're really any more valuable than later factory cabs. This is case, I think, mainly because later model 911's are generally viewed as being better and more valuable. You should follow the general "buy the newest/best condition 911 you can afford" maxim.
I think that a factory cab will always be worth an appreciable amount more than a converted targa, because the factory's build quality is a known item, as compared to conversion quality (which is all over the board).
My car has rear seats, with fold-down top sections. The only year 911 cabs that I know of to come without rear seats are the US model 1992-1994 cabs. This was the case because Porsche didn't want to do the engineering to put 3-point (as opposed to lap-only) seatbelts in the cab (as were required by US regulations starting with the 1992 model year), so they just deleted the seats entirely and put in the storage boxes in their place.
As for aerodynamics, I remember reading that, because the 911 cab top is so structurally rigid (i.e., the cloth is taut, well supported and does not flap), there is no difference in aerodynamics with the top up. As a result, the top speed numbers (with the top up) are the same for coupe and cab. Obviously, with the top down the aerodynamics suffer.
As for turbulence with the top down, consider getting the factory windstop - I got one for my car and, with it up, can drive at 80mph with the top down and carry on a normal conversation.
I would imagine that the whaletail would provide added downforce at speed, regardless of whether the car is a coupe or convertible (top down or up). Although my car came with the electric 964 wing, I had it replaced with a fixed "whaletail" -with no discernable effect on the car's "feel" at speed.
As to structural rigidity, there is no doubt that a 911 cab will be less stiff than a 911 coupe. Keep in mind, however, that a 911 in general is much stiffer than the average car, so the cab is still relatively stiff. I added a front strut tower brace to help stiffen my car. I only really notice the flex when driving diagonally up a curb ramps - never when driving the car normally.
Although 1983 cabs are relatively rare because it was the first year for the cab, I don't think that they're really any more valuable than later factory cabs. This is case, I think, mainly because later model 911's are generally viewed as being better and more valuable. You should follow the general "buy the newest/best condition 911 you can afford" maxim.
I think that a factory cab will always be worth an appreciable amount more than a converted targa, because the factory's build quality is a known item, as compared to conversion quality (which is all over the board).