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I'm looking at a '76 912E with 156k. The motor is out due to the owner putting a VW engine in there but he sold the VW engine and that's where the car is at right now. The stock motor is on the side and he said it runs but felt "tired" and just wasn't enough "go" for him.
I looked over the car and it seems to be in fair-good condition, nothing too bad. There are things I need to fix or replace in the interior but the body, floor pan, and chassis look to be solid with no visible rust. Electrical appears to be working (windows, sunroof, lights, a/c blower fan). The chrome around the windows and door handle as still good.
It was painted a little over a year ago and the finish is still pretty good.
Overall the car looks to be in good shape physically and electronically, I just don't know mechanically what it's like. He sold the carbs that were on the stock motor but said he has another carb that he can install on the motor to get it running so I can drive it. In addition, he mentioned that the stock motor had some headers but they were rusting so he may have gotten rid of them but he'll look around the shop.
He doesn't have any service records and has only owned it for about 3 years.
Now for the questions.
1. The seller is asking 12k obo (without the motor installed) but I'm going to start my offer at 7k and try to get him to install the stock motor to see how it runs/drives. I'm willing to go up to 10k if it runs/drives good. What do you think of my pricing and/or what would be a fair price for this car, with/without engine installed?
2. Would the car be better off with another engine installed (maybe from an sc or any other model)? If yes, which model and what should I expect to pay for that motor? It won't be a daily driver but I want it reliable when I do drive it.
3. Are there any issues with this model that I should be aware of or things that I should know before purchasing this car?
Thanks in advance for any advice, feedback, or suggestions.
Last edited by veleno; 09-09-2017 at 07:11 AM.
Reason: Sorry, can a mod move this to the 912 forum?
The 993 basket handle kills the car. What idiot put that on there?
If you buy it, please buy a complete running car.
Don't move this to the 912 forum as nobody ever goes there. It's essentially a G-body 911 with a bit less power.
Lot's of us have played with these...my boss had one and gave it back to the PO after just a few weeks...didn't care if the guy returned his money, he just wanted rid of it....as it was a pile of junk....oh it looked fantastic with new paint and interior wasn't too bad....but it was a looser of a car.
With respect, I quite disagree with AG's comments above.
Assuming that the correct engine is available, presumably numbers matching, the car is worth far more than the seller is asking. Exterior and interior condition appear to be above average. Hagerty gives current value in average condition at $24,900. Use that as a benchmark.
From the limited photos, other than the engine, nothing major is required to make the car very presentable. Again assuming the available engine is correct, and hasn't thrown a rod through the case or something like that, a full rebuild seems likely and would cost perhaps $10,000. If there are tranny/clutch issues, add maybe another $1000. So, once these things are done, you would still be at break-even or better on this car.
While there are exceptions, most people who have these cars love them. Yes, they have less power than a 911, but they are better balanced and frankly drive better. There is a very good reason why 912 prices have quadrupled and more over the past three years, though the later E model has lagged somewhat.
Rather than Rennlist, post your questions over on the 912 BBS site, a very active, informed, and helpful enthusiast community. The even have a dedicated 912E section. Furthermore, at least four of the top 912 restorers in the country show up and offer help and advice fairly frequently.
I thought I found the vin but maybe not? Where is the vin on the car? I tried to type in the number from my first pic into a vin decoder but it keeps asking me for a 17 digit number...
I went to look at the motor today and it appears the fuel injection system was removed and replaced with carbs. The mounting bar/rod that holds the engine to the frame is misplaced or got thrown out so he has to fabricate one for now until he finds it or a replacement is purchased. The bottom of the engine is a little wet with oil so I assume it has some leak that needs addressing at some point. The seller has extra manifolds and carbs he can put on the car to get it running so I can drive it (he sold the ones that came with the engine), but that's only after we agree on the price (he won't take 8k atm ). He will do 12k with the motor installed and the car running, but we'll see how it goes in a couple of days after I do more research but at the Hagerty value of around 25k I'd prefer to get a running SC or 964.
I'm keeping my fingers crossed he'll sell it running at 10k.
Pictures are worth a thousand words, and those pictures tell quite a story. Based on the questions you are asking, it is clear you are new to air-cooled Porsches. Sad to say, this is not the car for you. This car is too much of a project and has too many unknowns, even if the seller makes it "driveable". It might be driveable for 10 years or it might be driveable for 10 minutes. It might be fun, or it might be hell. From the look of that engine, the seller is at best a shade-tree mechanic. You need a running car that is fairly dependable and will be a fun experience. Unfortunately, your price point is about ten years too late. Walk away, and don't think of this as "the one that got away". Think of it as "dodging a bullet".
Edit: From all the rust, it appears that engine sat out in the rain for several years. Another reason to run, not walk.
I wouldn't be so sure the chassis is rust-free either. That paint job was done carelessly and in haste. Notice they painted over a sticker in the engine compartment, the seals between the front fenders and the front cowl, as well as the door latch and the engine lid latch. I'd be worried the new paint is hiding something.
Take a close look at the VIN sticker in the door jamb. At least they masked that when they painted, but see those lumps in the paint just above the sticker? That area should be nice and smooth. I wonder if that is the start of some rust they painted over.
There are still some air-cooled 911 bargains out there, but I agree with raspritz - I don't think this is one of them.
Pictures are worth a thousand words, and those pictures tell quite a story. Based on the questions you are asking, it is clear you are new to air-cooled Porsches. Sad to say, this is not the car for you. This car is too much of a project and has too many unknowns, even if the seller makes it "driveable". It might be driveable for 10 years or it might be driveable for 10 minutes. It might be fun, or it might be hell. From the look of that engine, the seller is at best a shade-tree mechanic. You need a running car that is fairly dependable and will be a fun experience. Unfortunately, your price point is about ten years too late. Walk away, and don't think of this as "the one that got away". Think of it as "dodging a bullet".
Edit: From all the rust, it appears that engine sat out in the rain for several years. Another reason to run, not walk.
Glad to see you come around. The 912's that are skyrocketing are longhoods.....not G-body. The original post made it very clear this car was not for the novice.
Thanks for the feedback and advice guys, I appreciate it. I do want a car that is dependable and fun to drive. I don't mind fixing things when they break or need attention, but I don't want a non running project that sits in the garage. The details of the paint aren't the best, but overall the finish isn't that bad but it could be better. I agree that what I'm willing to pay for this I can get into a good 996 (I looked into them yesterday and there are some I found). Lots of things to consider for sure. I've always liked this style body the most. Whatever the case may be, I know going down this road, with this particular car, has lots of uncertainty and potential to be a money pit. Everything you all say makes sense, but there's something about this car that keeps me wanting it.
I know about that feeling that makes you want it. I just picked up one for 10.5k with 185k on the odo (the orange one in my signature). It was running rough, original EFI, heat exchangers rusted away, rusted out muffler, color change respray (not perfect), cracked & faded dash, & rusted out battery tray/torsion bar mount.
Most of the interior is redone nicely & it shows well. After checking compression, I decided it was worth it, even if I put in a few thousand after. I intended to flip it, but a friend of mine really wanted to get into a Porsche, so we started fixing it together & he has since bought me out & taken it over. It will be a fun, nice little driver for him.
We did a tune-up & replaced the muffler among other things & got it running nicely, except for a stumble after 3k rpm. He will be taking it to a shop to address that & get the rust repaired.
The E's are not up to the longhood prices, so even a nice, original, low milage E, will probably only get about 25K. So be careful. Of course, as I write this, I believe the prices will go up.
Knowing what I know now, I don't think I would buy the one you are looking at unless it's running & around 10k or under.
Gav, I read your thread a couple of times as it's similar to my situation. The orange looks good and I hope the shop can figure out the 3k hesitation.
Gadsby, is that all that's inside the engine? It looks like there's something missing but what do I know. I'll decide what to do by tomorrow. I'm doing as much reading and researching as my mind can take! What intake manifold and carb setup did you go with (got a link)? Did you change the cams?
Gav, I read your thread a couple of times as it's similar to my situation. The orange looks good and I hope the shop can figure out the 3k hesitation.
Gadsby, is that all that's inside the engine? It looks like there's something missing but what do I know. I'll decide what to do by tomorrow. I'm doing as much reading and researching as my mind can take! What intake manifold and carb setup did you go with (got a link)? Did you change the cams?
With all due respect. You need to find someone who is knowledgeable about these cars to look at it with you. I would send an email to the local PCA chapter representative and ask for help. If the tub is in good shape and the engine is rebuildable then you have a worthwhile project car. If the tub is a rust bucket you will have a big $$ problem.
When I bought my Targa I maxed out the budget to get a car in really nice shape, which I've been enjoying ever since. You can spend the money now and get a great car or spend the money later to build a great car. But you really need that solid basis to start with. Remember that every little piece of rubber trim and whatnot adds up to serious $$ if you have to replace all of it.
09-09-2017, 07:06 AM
912E questions before purchase
). He will do 12k with the motor installed and the car running, but we'll see how it goes in a couple of days after I do more research but at the Hagerty value of around 25k I'd prefer to get a running SC or 964.
The 912's that are skyrocketing are longhoods.....not G-body. The original post made it very clear this car was not for the novice.
