Looking for Reassurance
04-18-2011, 01:23 PM
#1
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
Looking for Reassurance
Hi All,
Firstly, in the interest of full disclosure, I have been posting here under the guise of my father's identity. In reality, I am his twenty-something year-old son! So, to clarify, my father bought his first Porsche in 1988 (an ’89 911 cab), which was his DD until 2006, when he replaced it with a new 997 C4S. Together, we recently purchased a ’96 C4S which is now my DD.
So, together, my father and I spent the better part of a decade coveting the 993. In the 90s, we both agreed that the 993 was stylistically the most beautiful Porsche there ever was. Still, he was happy with his 89. He finally caved and bought the 997, and I became the lucky recipient of the ’89. How I enjoyed driving it for the last several years!
When it came time for me to move to California, however, I decided that – fun as the ’89 was – I should probably have a somewhat safer and at least marginally more practical DD. So, my father and I decided to finally fulfill our shared dream of owning a 993.
We weren’t particularly price-sensitive. We were happy to spend up to about ~$60k on any vehicle (we had been eyeing new Audi S4s as well), and ultimately decided to find ourselves a 993.
It was as though God had been watching, because what shows up for sale other than the most beautiful 993 C4S either of us had ever seen. Moreover, it even matched the ’89 and ’06 in that it was blue on blue. It was also optioned to the max (though tastefully). Best of all, it had only 9,000 miles (15,000 km). I know, these cars are virtually bulletproof and some say it’s insane to pay a huge premium for a low mileage p-car, but nonetheless, this was basically a new 993 that had been frozen in time for 15 years, waiting for us to come along.
The dealer was asking $70k. Insane money for a NA993! Next to it, they had a SY 993TT with a $90k asking price. It had never occurred to my father or me to look at the TT. My father was/is used to the 80s Turbos, which had insane turbo lag and – for all intents and purposes – did/do not make practical DDs. I have always similarly been skeptical of Turbos. “~300 NA hp is more than enough for me,” I thought. So, we both quickly disregarded the 993TT and began convincing ourselves to buy this very expensive NA993. We wrestled the dealer down to $64k (still insane money for a 993 C4S), and drove away happy in the ’96 C4S. We both knew that there were many nice C4Ss available as low as high 30s and more likely in the $40k-$50k range, but we didn’t and don’t care. This one is beautiful, it had one owner, was a low-miler, and was optioned to the 9s with everything we would have ordered for the car ourselves (highlights include Factory II Aero Kit (Turbo S Aerokit), European front bumper (i.e. clear lenses, bumperette remove, etc.), carbon instrument cluster, carbon door inserts, carbon center console, aluminum dials, aluminum shift ****, and aluminum handbrake, sport seats, hifi sound, motorsound package, big ovals, just to name a few...basically, the previous owner ordered this car to APPEAR like a Turbo S in every way (minus the door ducts and yellow calipers, I suppose).
Pictures below (keep scrolling though, there is more text below the photos!)
Nonetheless, lately I’ve been thinking…
I’m young. Yes, I’m very lucky to be in a position to be debating which Porsche I am driving. I understand that is a privileged position. But, nonetheless, there’s nothing wrong with evaluating your decisions. The question that’s been on my mind lately is “would I have been better off with a 993TT?” Again, I’m young, I do still have a bit of a wild side and part of me is pondering whether I would have an even wider grin on my face with the wily power of the 993TT. I recently read a post by mrsullivan – “the turbo will put a grin on your face…like the one on your face when you rode a roller coaster for the first time as an 8 yr old.” That actually resonated with me. That’s sometimes the feeling I WISH my C4S would give me, but doesn’t quite manage to. Not that it’s not a very fun car in its own right, it absolutely is. But it isn’t “push you into the back of your seat and feel the car take off” kind of fun. It’s more smooth, powerful, confidence-inspiring fast.
Again, I had never considered the TT mostly because I had been won over by my father’s “turbo lag sucks, you don’t want a TT as a DD” mantra. But, since buying the C4S, I have been reading nothing but “the 993TT has virtually no turbo lag … it is surprisingly doable as a DD … the nicest of all of the turbos.”
Admittedly, I’ve never driven one. Part of me doesn’t want to (ignorance is bliss). But, I’m looking for some reassurance. If I had scouted out a 993TT in the same general price range as my C4S, what would I have come home with? A badass pavement chewing 993TT that would have sufficed as a DD in California and made me the happiest man alive? A money pit? A marginal upgrade on my 993 C4S? Or an earthshatteringly awesome upgrade?
Finally, and this is a bit of an aside, but what do you guys thinking of paying north of $60k for a NA993? I know this is a very polite forum in which people usually do not harp on one another with regards to asking/purchase prices and what not, but you can save the politeness here. Again, the bottom line is that neither my father nor I would part with the 993 C4S for $90k (I’m serious), so the car was a good buy to us. But, out of curiosity, what are your guys’ opinions on paying that much for a NA993? If it hadn’t been a dealer, what would a private party price be on an insanely low-miler and insanely optioned 993 C4S be? $45k? $55k (keep in mind this was in Canada, where I understand there is a slight premium on p-cars compared to the US)? I’m curious!
Firstly, in the interest of full disclosure, I have been posting here under the guise of my father's identity. In reality, I am his twenty-something year-old son! So, to clarify, my father bought his first Porsche in 1988 (an ’89 911 cab), which was his DD until 2006, when he replaced it with a new 997 C4S. Together, we recently purchased a ’96 C4S which is now my DD.
So, together, my father and I spent the better part of a decade coveting the 993. In the 90s, we both agreed that the 993 was stylistically the most beautiful Porsche there ever was. Still, he was happy with his 89. He finally caved and bought the 997, and I became the lucky recipient of the ’89. How I enjoyed driving it for the last several years!
When it came time for me to move to California, however, I decided that – fun as the ’89 was – I should probably have a somewhat safer and at least marginally more practical DD. So, my father and I decided to finally fulfill our shared dream of owning a 993.
We weren’t particularly price-sensitive. We were happy to spend up to about ~$60k on any vehicle (we had been eyeing new Audi S4s as well), and ultimately decided to find ourselves a 993.
It was as though God had been watching, because what shows up for sale other than the most beautiful 993 C4S either of us had ever seen. Moreover, it even matched the ’89 and ’06 in that it was blue on blue. It was also optioned to the max (though tastefully). Best of all, it had only 9,000 miles (15,000 km). I know, these cars are virtually bulletproof and some say it’s insane to pay a huge premium for a low mileage p-car, but nonetheless, this was basically a new 993 that had been frozen in time for 15 years, waiting for us to come along.
The dealer was asking $70k. Insane money for a NA993! Next to it, they had a SY 993TT with a $90k asking price. It had never occurred to my father or me to look at the TT. My father was/is used to the 80s Turbos, which had insane turbo lag and – for all intents and purposes – did/do not make practical DDs. I have always similarly been skeptical of Turbos. “~300 NA hp is more than enough for me,” I thought. So, we both quickly disregarded the 993TT and began convincing ourselves to buy this very expensive NA993. We wrestled the dealer down to $64k (still insane money for a 993 C4S), and drove away happy in the ’96 C4S. We both knew that there were many nice C4Ss available as low as high 30s and more likely in the $40k-$50k range, but we didn’t and don’t care. This one is beautiful, it had one owner, was a low-miler, and was optioned to the 9s with everything we would have ordered for the car ourselves (highlights include Factory II Aero Kit (Turbo S Aerokit), European front bumper (i.e. clear lenses, bumperette remove, etc.), carbon instrument cluster, carbon door inserts, carbon center console, aluminum dials, aluminum shift ****, and aluminum handbrake, sport seats, hifi sound, motorsound package, big ovals, just to name a few...basically, the previous owner ordered this car to APPEAR like a Turbo S in every way (minus the door ducts and yellow calipers, I suppose).
Pictures below (keep scrolling though, there is more text below the photos!)
Nonetheless, lately I’ve been thinking…
I’m young. Yes, I’m very lucky to be in a position to be debating which Porsche I am driving. I understand that is a privileged position. But, nonetheless, there’s nothing wrong with evaluating your decisions. The question that’s been on my mind lately is “would I have been better off with a 993TT?” Again, I’m young, I do still have a bit of a wild side and part of me is pondering whether I would have an even wider grin on my face with the wily power of the 993TT. I recently read a post by mrsullivan – “the turbo will put a grin on your face…like the one on your face when you rode a roller coaster for the first time as an 8 yr old.” That actually resonated with me. That’s sometimes the feeling I WISH my C4S would give me, but doesn’t quite manage to. Not that it’s not a very fun car in its own right, it absolutely is. But it isn’t “push you into the back of your seat and feel the car take off” kind of fun. It’s more smooth, powerful, confidence-inspiring fast.
Again, I had never considered the TT mostly because I had been won over by my father’s “turbo lag sucks, you don’t want a TT as a DD” mantra. But, since buying the C4S, I have been reading nothing but “the 993TT has virtually no turbo lag … it is surprisingly doable as a DD … the nicest of all of the turbos.”
Admittedly, I’ve never driven one. Part of me doesn’t want to (ignorance is bliss). But, I’m looking for some reassurance. If I had scouted out a 993TT in the same general price range as my C4S, what would I have come home with? A badass pavement chewing 993TT that would have sufficed as a DD in California and made me the happiest man alive? A money pit? A marginal upgrade on my 993 C4S? Or an earthshatteringly awesome upgrade?
Finally, and this is a bit of an aside, but what do you guys thinking of paying north of $60k for a NA993? I know this is a very polite forum in which people usually do not harp on one another with regards to asking/purchase prices and what not, but you can save the politeness here. Again, the bottom line is that neither my father nor I would part with the 993 C4S for $90k (I’m serious), so the car was a good buy to us. But, out of curiosity, what are your guys’ opinions on paying that much for a NA993? If it hadn’t been a dealer, what would a private party price be on an insanely low-miler and insanely optioned 993 C4S be? $45k? $55k (keep in mind this was in Canada, where I understand there is a slight premium on p-cars compared to the US)? I’m curious!
04-18-2011, 01:45 PM
#2
Agent Orange
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
I think you could've gotten yourself a pretty nice TT for $64K. But then we all lust over something and the decisions we make are not often rational. It's a decision of love, so learn to love your car again and be happy with what you have. You'll be taking a bath if you ever seriously decided to sell the car.
04-18-2011, 02:28 PM
#6
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
Not a huge issue per se, but nonetheless (if I'm looking for reassurance), I don't like the idea of forking up ludicrous sums of money to maintain my DD. I know this tends to trigger arguments, but can anybody ballpark (even in very approximate figures) the incremental increased cost of maintaining the TT over an NA993?
04-18-2011, 02:49 PM
#7
Race Director
Well for that money I would have bought a turbo. Its no more difficult to drive daily (in fact some argue its easier) and has the same surefooted feeling and weight (a negative).
I'd honestly struggle to consider a C4s. you get the negatives of the turbo (the heavier steering, heavier curb weight, etc) without any of the benefits (aside from big reds).
For me it would have been between the C2s and the turbo, and I went with the turbo and don't regret that.
I'd honestly struggle to consider a C4s. you get the negatives of the turbo (the heavier steering, heavier curb weight, etc) without any of the benefits (aside from big reds).
For me it would have been between the C2s and the turbo, and I went with the turbo and don't regret that.
Trending Topics
04-18-2011, 02:53 PM
#8
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
Well for that money I would have bought a turbo. Its no more difficult to drive daily (in fact some argue its easier) and has the same surefooted feeling and weight (a negative).
I'd honestly struggle to consider a C4s. you get the negatives of the turbo (the heavier steering, heavier curb weight, etc) without any of the benefits (aside from big reds).
For me it would have been between the C2s and the turbo, and I went with the turbo and don't regret that.
I'd honestly struggle to consider a C4s. you get the negatives of the turbo (the heavier steering, heavier curb weight, etc) without any of the benefits (aside from big reds).
For me it would have been between the C2s and the turbo, and I went with the turbo and don't regret that.
04-18-2011, 03:09 PM
#9
Rennlist Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Rainforest (Vancouver, BC)
Posts: 7,530
Received 999 Likes
on
442 Posts
1. $64K CDN for a 15000KM, Canadian spec (C36), HIGHLY optioned (though not all factory as previously discussed) C4S with no accidents is a fair price in our local market. There was another CDN spec 96 C4S (Polar Silver/Black sport seats) with 64000ishKMs that sold very recently for over $60KCDN. It was on the dealer's floor for only a couple of weeks. The market for good, well maintained, low mile, original C36/Canadian spec cars is strong in Canada.
2. 993 Turbo as a dd? There are many who have in the past and some still do. The car will take it in stride. Maintenance costs will be higher but the car can take dd status. Though in my mind it's kind of like using a sledge hammer to put up a picture hook.
3. I wish I could have had your "problem" in my 20s.
2. 993 Turbo as a dd? There are many who have in the past and some still do. The car will take it in stride. Maintenance costs will be higher but the car can take dd status. Though in my mind it's kind of like using a sledge hammer to put up a picture hook.
3. I wish I could have had your "problem" in my 20s.
04-18-2011, 03:23 PM
#10
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 960
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Given all the variables I think you paid in the high range of a fair price. A dealer's premium could run 10-15%, so if it had been a private party, perhaps hi $50's. I think you're over estimating the visceral feeling you're expecting in a 993TT; drive one...and I believe it will validate your reasons for purchasing the C4S.
04-18-2011, 03:28 PM
#11
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
1. $64K CDN for a 15000KM, Canadian spec (C36), HIGHLY optioned (though not all factory as previously discussed) C4S with no accidents is a fair price in our local market. There was another CDN spec 96 C4S (Polar Silver/Black sport seats) with 64000ishKMs that sold very recently for over $60KCDN. It was on the dealer's floor for only a couple of weeks. The market for good, well maintained, low mile, original C36/Canadian spec cars is strong in Canada.
2. 993 Turbo as a dd? There are many who have in the past and some still do. The car will take it in stride. Maintenance costs will be higher but the car can take dd status. Though in my mind it's kind of like using a sledge hammer to put up a picture hook.
3. I wish I could have had your "problem" in my 20s.
2. 993 Turbo as a dd? There are many who have in the past and some still do. The car will take it in stride. Maintenance costs will be higher but the car can take dd status. Though in my mind it's kind of like using a sledge hammer to put up a picture hook.
3. I wish I could have had your "problem" in my 20s.
As an aside, after much research, I've determined that all of the options were indeed factory (the two mystery codes turned out to be from the "exclusive department," which I have since been able to determine were the interior carbon and Factory II Aero Kit). The one exception may be the front "Euro" bumper. That remains a mystery...
04-18-2011, 03:31 PM
#12
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
Any Bay Area TT owners feeling generous? I'd love a drive!
04-18-2011, 04:37 PM
#13
Pro
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Colorado Rocky Mountains
Posts: 586
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well for that money I would have bought a turbo. Its no more difficult to drive daily (in fact some argue its easier) and has the same surefooted feeling and weight (a negative).
I'd honestly struggle to consider a C4s. you get the negatives of the turbo (the heavier steering, heavier curb weight, etc) without any of the benefits (aside from big reds).
For me it would have been between the C2s and the turbo, and I went with the turbo and don't regret that.
I'd honestly struggle to consider a C4s. you get the negatives of the turbo (the heavier steering, heavier curb weight, etc) without any of the benefits (aside from big reds).
For me it would have been between the C2s and the turbo, and I went with the turbo and don't regret that.
04-18-2011, 04:43 PM
#14
Seared
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
