348SStb

So the first Spyder RS has been put out to stud recently on that very popular web site that “brings” us auctions. (It is not my style to mention names or provide direct links, and I suggest that this information is very easily found.)

Since I don’t consider the comments section on the auction site a place to have a general discussion, I would like to offer a different perspective which was not found in the comments section at the time of this post.

This kind of flipping has been going on forever; and while this isn’t a new scenario, it’s fairly new for this model in the US (I recall a discussion on these forums about a prior Spyder RS available for sale at a dealer in the Mid-Atlantic region, but that wasn’t an auction); and I would like to ramble a bit.
<<Flame suit on.>>

For me, it is sad to see that an enthusiasts’ car like a Spyder RS was not only sold by a new selling Dealer that didn’t know its customer or that allowed a scenario whereby its customer would go on profiting off this model (flipping it for the purpose of profiting); but also that a new Spyder RS was obtained by an individual, obviously well connected and practical in his purpose for profit, having secured the vehicle in the first place before registering it in a distant tax-free State to advance his purpose, who chose to utilize the purchase for nothing more than a personal money-making operation. Free market, yes; but to say this was a “waste” of an allocation that could better have gone to an enthusiast, and/or a long-time loyal Porsche buyer — a lucky person derived from of a great multitude of good people who would line up for the opportunity, who would be willing to buy and enjoy this vehicle for at least a year, is a towering understatement.

Hopefully Porsche Cars North America takes note of both the new selling Dealer and the first owner, since it is Porsche’s purpose, regardless of their recent success (or lack thereof) in achieving it, to allocate these cars to folks who buy them to own them and enjoy them, not to folks who wish to be in the amateur car business; and not to allow used car dealers to become landing spots for flipped examples.

Though many folks tend to be dazzled in the moment, the slingshot oscillations in markets and the pumping up and subsequent deflation of values hurts a great many of us, as it increases the cost of entry for enthusiasts and ultimately hurts the pocket books of owners in the future when the pendulum swings hard the other way.

We’ll see how this auction goes. I won’t be happy if the last bid is small; and I won’t be happy if the last bid is high, as I do not enjoy seeing fresh cars like this having every last penny squeezed out of them. I more enjoy seeing loyalty, and repeat loyalty, between customer and seller and between brand and consumer.

With all this being said, the eventual winning bidder and future second owner, unconnected to the circumstances mentioned above, undoubtedly would be someone whose success and means would allow him to calculate that the price of entry would be well justified by the smiles and experience that would follow a winning bid; and to him I sincerely wish a pleasant ownership experience.

Thoughts? Wondering especially the thoughts of repeat Porsche buyers who tried diligently to obtain an allocation but were told no. Hoping that those who would throw the torch at me rather than the bouquet will exercise some restraint and civility — I am putting myself out there by offering up an unpopular and oft-unspoken viewpoint for the purpose of prompting a constructive discussion.

TXshaggy

Meh…happens in all constrained markets.

The link and discussion has been posted in the RS inventory thread.

There has been at least one auction pulled on IIRC a 4RS that was withdrawn because the dealer threatened action.

I waited three years for a Bronco…plenty for sale on BAT during that time.

s182

How have you liked your Bronco? I've got a BRaptor along with my incoming Boxster GTS. Think I've got on and off road pretty well covered now. And both can go topless.

jlee504

The braptor is probably the most surprising car I’ve owned. I love it.

TXshaggy

2 door badlands, great vehicle. We did the Bronco Offrodeo here in TX and were amazed at the capability. Fun 4-wheeler.

Fang911

Once the original dealer sells it to a private individual- does the dealer or PCNA have any control over what happens subsequently? Is the buyer not allowed to say “huh, rubystar really isnt my cup of tea” and trade it in 3 weeks later at XXX Motors for a Lambo or Mac? Also, if he didn't trade in the SRS and just sold it, he'd have to sell it for $210K just to break even- accounting for sales tax. Hard to believe the BAT dealer would pay much more than that for it (imo, i have no idea what the market is for a Rubystar WP SRS)-

Amochosto

I’m getting a 2 door Bronco Badlands manual (I want to keep my manual skills while all my performance cars are PDK) in a month or two it’ll be in production next week, cool to know that another Spyder RS is owner out there with a Bronco!

TXRubicon

If I'd have known I'd have met you out at Hidden Falls in our JL Rubicon. We sold it last year though. I had a 392 Rubicon as a press car last week, and had a few Bronco press loaners earlier this years and I sure miss having an off-roader in the garage. Hope you're enjoying that Bronco.

DER951

How did this turn into a bronco thread?

I have to agree this sort of flipping is perfectly legal, but in my mind, not ethical. A true enthusiast was almost certainly denied a car he/she would have loved AND used.

A number of years ago, an acquaintance retired, moved to a new area, and tried to buy a new 996 GT3. The dealer would not sell to her until she proved she was now “local”, and with every intention of keeping it and using it.

smegman

My local dealer sucks *** and sells all the special cars to the same three people in town at massive over MSRP prices. Very lame... like the dude with 25 porsches is going to enjoy it as much as some other guy who it will be their only sports car, GMAFB.

The entire thing is frustrating and has completely turned me off the brand.

348SStb

@DER951

Haha, I was thinking the same - how did this turn into a Bronco thread?

Absolutely it is legal, and I agree unethical. More to the point, I have heard it spoken within the confines of Porsche Dealers that a customer who sells a GT car inside of one year to any Dealer besides the selling Dealer is put on notice, so to speak; and if it happens right away, the customer name becomes known to Porsche North America and he is more or less put on a black list. None of this is official of course; but as I said, I have heard it spoken when hearing of guys turning around and flipping 992 Sport Classic, Dakar, etc.

@Fang911
Basically, the person is supposed to go back to the selling Dealer to try to address the problem — for example, “This car isn’t for me.” Naturally if they can’t come to a deal, then it’s free market prerogative. Again, this is an unspoken rule and an understanding that is sometimes (and sometimes not) made clear at the time of order/sale; but according to what I’ve been told PCNA does take note. The bottom line is nobody has a right to buy a Porsche or to step foot into a Porsche dealership, and Porsche dealers and PCNA can (legally and practically) refuse to build a car for or sell a car to a particular person.

In my opinion, if Porsche dealers did a better job communicating these guidelines and also did a better job selling to loyal clients than those who are willing to pay the most money, a better equilibrium would exist and the markups that we see would likely not exist to the extent they exist now; and loyal customers would have more of a chance to buy cars if the local hotshot private buyer who never bought a Porsche before and whose bank account recently swelled were not present in the buyer candidate pool.

Adrift

It’s the dealer more than the brand, but yeah.

Welcome to (late stage) capitalism.

MeasureTwice

My Porsche dealer required my signed agreement that they had first right of refusal to repurchase my GT4RS for the purchase price if I were to try to sell it in the first year.

MEGY911

My dealers owner has a roped off area of the showroom with an S/T in it. When I asked about it the sales person freely admitted he was going to flip it in a years time!

s182

Though I'd been out of the game of looking for a new Porsche for many years until recently, the past 2 years have been eye opening. My experience shows that there are good dealers doing their best to ensure cars get to the people to enjoy and appreciate them, are there are other deals who don't care at all about customers and only care about $. I know of some who only sell local and only at MSRP and strictly by order of request. I know of others that take a request list and just solicit bids for how high over MSRP people will go when a build allocation comes up. I know of others who have multiple CPO cars with <100 miles on them at significantly over MSRP pricing. I don't know if this is due to dealer wanting to claim they always sell new at MSRP or what is going on, but when a dealer has 10+ high demand vehicles with such low mileage in a short timeframe there is a significant 'smell' to the situation.

In about a 800 range of where I am, there are two close dealers that I found at extreme opposite ends of the spectrum. One seems to only cares about the max $ and will sell to anyone who outbids someone else, even if that means selling a vehicle out from under someone. The other dealer is very much about local deals and long term relationships. I'm glad that latter dealer is vey close to me and who I have my BGTS order in with, as well as my name on the list for a Spyder RS (though I likely got in on that list too late)