4.0 vs 4.0 vs......5.0
12-31-2023, 12:03 PM
#31
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
So let me put this out there........
For those who have had seat time in both the 718 4.0 and a GT3, are there ways in which the 718 is better or is the GT3 just noticeably superior in every way? There is the open top factor given that I have a Spyder, which is not insignificant, but I will leave that out of the equation for the sake of this particular discussion.
Last edited by VVG; 12-31-2023 at 12:05 PM.
12-31-2023, 12:56 PM
#32
Agreed. Totally valid point. Really almost wants to make me just take the plunge on the GT3. Depreciation, if any, will be just so minimal.
So let me put this out there........
For those who have had seat time in both the 718 4.0 and a GT3, are there ways in which the 718 is better or is the GT3 just noticeably superior in every way? There is the open top factor given that I have a Spyder, which is not insignificant, but I will leave that out of the equation for the sake of this particular discussion.
So let me put this out there........
For those who have had seat time in both the 718 4.0 and a GT3, are there ways in which the 718 is better or is the GT3 just noticeably superior in every way? There is the open top factor given that I have a Spyder, which is not insignificant, but I will leave that out of the equation for the sake of this particular discussion.
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sin911 (12-31-2023)
12-31-2023, 01:04 PM
#33
GT3 engine is in another galaxy compared the 718 4.0L, making the car feels like a real race car. 718 4.0L is a good engine but nothing special. Money/product 718 GT4//Spyder. Street enjoyment 718 Spyder, love to drive it with my wife in nice weather. Full GT race car experience: GT3
I'm getting a Spyder RS in June, let's see the feelings, only thing I will miss is the manual gearbox.
I had a 2013 Mustang GT that sold for a 981 GT4 several years ago, cannot compare a Mustang to any Porsche. I loved the 5.0 engine sound, but that's it.
12-31-2023, 02:35 PM
#34
Rennlist Member
It depends what you are doing with the cars. If you want to do hardcore tracking with the fastest possible times then GT3. If you want to track occasionally and not worry about times then either. If you are just going to drive it on the street then either will be great as you will not be able to explore to the full potential of either car on the street at least not without risking your life and other people's lives. Street is not the place explore the limits of these vehicles. Hope this helps.
12-31-2023, 02:45 PM
#35
Agreed. Totally valid point. Really almost wants to make me just take the plunge on the GT3. Depreciation, if any, will be just so minimal.
So let me put this out there........
For those who have had seat time in both the 718 4.0 and a GT3, are there ways in which the 718 is better or is the GT3 just noticeably superior in every way? There is the open top factor given that I have a Spyder, which is not insignificant, but I will leave that out of the equation for the sake of this particular discussion.
So let me put this out there........
For those who have had seat time in both the 718 4.0 and a GT3, are there ways in which the 718 is better or is the GT3 just noticeably superior in every way? There is the open top factor given that I have a Spyder, which is not insignificant, but I will leave that out of the equation for the sake of this particular discussion.
where I am, the sales tax payable on the purchase of the GT3 makes the on the road cost much higher than current sale prices
for example a 2018 Touring at about 250K cdn would cost me about 150 K plus my car, and I would then have to pay the tax on the difference which comes to about 20K
so all in all I will have 270K in the car, if I were to sell it I would never see that 20K in tax for a while at least, I don't see the 991.2 touring appreciating that much in the next five years
so if I go to sell in the next five years I am out 20K
I think the GTS 4.0 will likely hold at MSRP or slightly higher for the next 5 years, so if I go to sell I lose nothing in depreciation
in addition the GT3 comes with higher consumable costs
so the GT3 really will cost quite a bit more IF I had to sell it in the next five years
there is also the issue of being afraid of something happening to the car when you have so much invested in it
the large delta of 160K to move to the GT3 makes it tough equation for me, but I still find myself watching lots of GT3 touring youtube videos...
12-31-2023, 02:52 PM
#36
It depends what you are doing with the cars. If you want to do hardcore tracking with the fastest possible times then GT3. If you want to track occasionally and not worry about times then either. If you are just going to drive it on the street then either will be great as you will not be able to explore to the full potential of either car on the street at least not without risking your life and other people's lives. Street is not the place explore the limits of these vehicles. Hope this helps.
for me it's not about track capability, it is about the enjoyment you get from a car
it's about the way the engine revs and sounds, the thrill of acceleration, the feel of the car at 7/10ths, the quality of the manual transmision and steering, the beauty of the car
I would say there is a siginficant delta between a 718 4.0 and a BRZ on the street in those areas which justifies the additional cost of a 718 over a BRZ
the question for some of us is whether that significant of a delta exists on the street between a 718 and GT3 in those areas to justify the extra expense of a GT3
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01-01-2024, 11:03 AM
#38
Burning Brakes
Ahhh young grasshopper. You have made the ultimate point without realizing it. Joy and cost are not mutually exclusive. If the cost of an (luxury)item nags you, the joy is gone and it is time to sell it. To me, it sounds like the cost of a much more expensive car like a GT3 would always be in the back of your mind. And if that is the case, keep the less expensive car and enjoy. Whenever I start trying to justify the cost of a toy, I know it is time to sell it because the thought of money/cost kills the overall enjoyment of the toy.
I have a big *** boat with big *** diesel engines in it. A friend of mine brought a friend of his that was interested in boating. The first words out of his mouth were, “About how much does your boat cost per month?” And I said, “Save your money. Boating is not for you!”. It was literally the end of the conversation.
So by asking the question, you have already answered it! Enjoy the 718!!!
I have a big *** boat with big *** diesel engines in it. A friend of mine brought a friend of his that was interested in boating. The first words out of his mouth were, “About how much does your boat cost per month?” And I said, “Save your money. Boating is not for you!”. It was literally the end of the conversation.
So by asking the question, you have already answered it! Enjoy the 718!!!
Last edited by flynlo; 01-01-2024 at 11:37 AM.
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01-01-2024, 01:05 PM
#39
Ahhh young grasshopper. You have made the ultimate point without realizing it. Joy and cost are not mutually exclusive. If the cost of an (luxury)item nags you, the joy is gone and it is time to sell it. To me, it sounds like the cost of a much more expensive car like a GT3 would always be in the back of your mind. And if that is the case, keep the less expensive car and enjoy. Whenever I start trying to justify the cost of a toy, I know it is time to sell it because the thought of money/cost kills the overall enjoyment of the toy.
I have a big *** boat with big *** diesel engines in it. A friend of mine brought a friend of his that was interested in boating. The first words out of his mouth were, “About how much does your boat cost per month?” And I said, “Save your money. Boating is not for you!”. It was literally the end of the conversation.
So by asking the question, you have already answered it! Enjoy the 718!!!
I have a big *** boat with big *** diesel engines in it. A friend of mine brought a friend of his that was interested in boating. The first words out of his mouth were, “About how much does your boat cost per month?” And I said, “Save your money. Boating is not for you!”. It was literally the end of the conversation.
So by asking the question, you have already answered it! Enjoy the 718!!!
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01-01-2024, 02:11 PM
#40
Ahhh young grasshopper. You have made the ultimate point without realizing it. Joy and cost are not mutually exclusive. If the cost of an (luxury)item nags you, the joy is gone and it is time to sell it. To me, it sounds like the cost of a much more expensive car like a GT3 would always be in the back of your mind. And if that is the case, keep the less expensive car and enjoy. Whenever I start trying to justify the cost of a toy, I know it is time to sell it because the thought of money/cost kills the overall enjoyment of the toy.
I have a big *** boat with big *** diesel engines in it. A friend of mine brought a friend of his that was interested in boating. The first words out of his mouth were, “About how much does your boat cost per month?” And I said, “Save your money. Boating is not for you!”. It was literally the end of the conversation.
So by asking the question, you have already answered it! Enjoy the 718!!!
I have a big *** boat with big *** diesel engines in it. A friend of mine brought a friend of his that was interested in boating. The first words out of his mouth were, “About how much does your boat cost per month?” And I said, “Save your money. Boating is not for you!”. It was literally the end of the conversation.
So by asking the question, you have already answered it! Enjoy the 718!!!
I would say it's not asking the question that is the issue, it's if after you get the item you will be worrying about the cost that is the issue, 2 different things.
we all need to make choices about how to spend our money on various possible things
and in the realm of cars, sometimes we contemplate making a big jump in the overall cost of a car and naturally think about whether the move makes sense in terms of value
that thought process does not in and of itself kill the joy if you go ahead with the purchase
case in point, I made a big leap a while back from a preowned bmw that cost me about 40K on the road to a 2014 Cayman S that was going to cost me about 85K on the road
more than double the price and more than I ever spent on a car
I hesitated and went through a similar analysis that I am going through now with a possible big jump to a 991.2 GT3
but in the end I went through with it and ordered that brand new 2014 Cayman S
and when I got it I absolutely loved it and couldn't get enough of it and it totally was worth the jump from the BMW in cost, and while I enjoyed it I never thought about the additional cost
so thinking about the value of something before getting it doesn't necessarily kill the joy
it's if after you get it you are worrying about how much you spent, that is the joy kill
the two issues are connected for sure, but not the same
Last edited by baege; 01-01-2024 at 02:18 PM.
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AdamIsAdam (01-01-2024)
01-01-2024, 02:26 PM
#41
Rennlist Member
this thread is spot on for me, currently debating whether a move to a 991.1 GTS or a 991.2 GT3T is "worth it"
as pointed out by Lucifer it's not outright purchase price that determines cost but a bunch of factors, one of the most important being depreciation rate
so for example my 55K (on the road) 2018 bmw m240i cost me about 13K in depreciation for the 2 years I had it
whereas my GTS 4.0 has cost me nothing in depreciation for the almost 2 years I've had itdespite costing double the m240i
of course consumables on the porsche are higher than the m240i, It will end up costing me about $2000 in service for the 2 years I've had it whereas the m240i service was included
if you are paying cash for cars though you also have to factor in the money you could have made on the higher amount in the car
so roughly 50K extra in the cayman vs the m240i
50K at a secure 5% return, is about 2500 after tax on the depending on your marginal tax rate
but even with the added service cost and the loss of income from the higher purchase price, the GTS is still 8 k cheaper over 2 years than the m240i
and so the value proposition in m240i vs GTS 4.0 is a no brainer, as the GTS is way more enjoyable
it gets more complicated when you move from a pretty enjoyable car like the GTS 4.0 to a much more expensive car like the GT3 touring
to make that move it will cost me about 160K cdn
160K at 5% secure is about 5k after tax
you could argue that the touring will appreciate at a higher rate than the GTS 4.0 to make up for the loss of interest income on the 160K and that's where the value analysis gets even more complicated
the move to a 991.1 GTS is more of a no brainer since with the 50K cdn needed to make that move, there is not a lot of income loss involved and arguably the 991.1 GTS will also appreciate at a higher rate than the GTS 4.0
in the end though the heart wants what the heart wants and it's hard to quantify the value of realizing your dream car!
as pointed out by Lucifer it's not outright purchase price that determines cost but a bunch of factors, one of the most important being depreciation rate
so for example my 55K (on the road) 2018 bmw m240i cost me about 13K in depreciation for the 2 years I had it
whereas my GTS 4.0 has cost me nothing in depreciation for the almost 2 years I've had itdespite costing double the m240i
of course consumables on the porsche are higher than the m240i, It will end up costing me about $2000 in service for the 2 years I've had it whereas the m240i service was included
if you are paying cash for cars though you also have to factor in the money you could have made on the higher amount in the car
so roughly 50K extra in the cayman vs the m240i
50K at a secure 5% return, is about 2500 after tax on the depending on your marginal tax rate
but even with the added service cost and the loss of income from the higher purchase price, the GTS is still 8 k cheaper over 2 years than the m240i
and so the value proposition in m240i vs GTS 4.0 is a no brainer, as the GTS is way more enjoyable
it gets more complicated when you move from a pretty enjoyable car like the GTS 4.0 to a much more expensive car like the GT3 touring
to make that move it will cost me about 160K cdn
160K at 5% secure is about 5k after tax
you could argue that the touring will appreciate at a higher rate than the GTS 4.0 to make up for the loss of interest income on the 160K and that's where the value analysis gets even more complicated
the move to a 991.1 GTS is more of a no brainer since with the 50K cdn needed to make that move, there is not a lot of income loss involved and arguably the 991.1 GTS will also appreciate at a higher rate than the GTS 4.0
in the end though the heart wants what the heart wants and it's hard to quantify the value of realizing your dream car!
01-01-2024, 06:32 PM
#42
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
I would say it's not asking the question that is the issue, it's if after you get the item you will be worrying about the cost that is the issue, 2 different things.
we all need to make choices about how to spend our money on various possible things
and in the realm of cars, sometimes we contemplate making a big jump in the overall cost of a car and naturally think about whether the move makes sense in terms of value
that thought process does not in and of itself kill the joy if you go ahead with the purchase
case in point, I made a big leap a while back from a preowned bmw that cost me about 40K on the road to a 2014 Cayman S that was going to cost me about 85K on the road
more than double the price and more than I ever spent on a car
I hesitated and went through a similar analysis that I am going through now with a possible big jump to a 991.2 GT3
but in the end I went through with it and ordered that brand new 2014 Cayman S
and when I got it I absolutely loved it and couldn't get enough of it and it totally was worth the jump from the BMW in cost, and while I enjoyed it I never thought about the additional cost
so thinking about the value of something before getting it doesn't necessarily kill the joy
it's if after you get it you are worrying about how much you spent, that is the joy kill
the two issues are connected for sure, but not the same
we all need to make choices about how to spend our money on various possible things
and in the realm of cars, sometimes we contemplate making a big jump in the overall cost of a car and naturally think about whether the move makes sense in terms of value
that thought process does not in and of itself kill the joy if you go ahead with the purchase
case in point, I made a big leap a while back from a preowned bmw that cost me about 40K on the road to a 2014 Cayman S that was going to cost me about 85K on the road
more than double the price and more than I ever spent on a car
I hesitated and went through a similar analysis that I am going through now with a possible big jump to a 991.2 GT3
but in the end I went through with it and ordered that brand new 2014 Cayman S
and when I got it I absolutely loved it and couldn't get enough of it and it totally was worth the jump from the BMW in cost, and while I enjoyed it I never thought about the additional cost
so thinking about the value of something before getting it doesn't necessarily kill the joy
it's if after you get it you are worrying about how much you spent, that is the joy kill
the two issues are connected for sure, but not the same
Again, it is not about cost. It is about value, and I have always been that way about everything. I don't think about the cost if the thrill is worth it. I think about the cost when the thrill ISN'T worth it.
Last edited by VVG; 01-01-2024 at 06:55 PM.
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01-01-2024, 06:44 PM
#43
Agreed. Totally valid point. Really almost wants to make me just take the plunge on the GT3. Depreciation, if any, will be just so minimal.
So let me put this out there........
For those who have had seat time in both the 718 4.0 and a GT3, are there ways in which the 718 is better or is the GT3 just noticeably superior in every way? There is the open top factor given that I have a Spyder, which is not insignificant, but I will leave that out of the equation for the sake of this particular discussion.
So let me put this out there........
For those who have had seat time in both the 718 4.0 and a GT3, are there ways in which the 718 is better or is the GT3 just noticeably superior in every way? There is the open top factor given that I have a Spyder, which is not insignificant, but I will leave that out of the equation for the sake of this particular discussion.
If either had to be a daily, the GT4 wins hands down.
01-01-2024, 07:40 PM
#44
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I spent about $95k on my CGTS40. The most I ever spent at that point on a car. Part of my logic was cost of ownership when factoring in resale value. Well, the flaw in that theory is needing to actually SELL the car! I just may keep it forever, that's how much I love it and I do not regret spending the money for one second.
But a year later I spent about $135k for my 911T (still have 718) and while I love the looks, the build, and basically everything about the car, I just don't love driving it. I was going to keep it because I do feel like it's a special car, but the idea of keeping something I don't really love for that money, plus constantly wondering about resale value, well, I decided to let it go (and I don't "need" the money). It's an amazing car, just not for me. I get more enjoyment out of the 718. I feel very good about my decision to let it go and am glad it's going to a very good home and I did not get hurt in the process. Plus, I'm really glad I got to experience the car for 3k miles and a full season. It actually makes me love my 718 that much more.
So money and value is really subjective. I totally agree with that.
But a year later I spent about $135k for my 911T (still have 718) and while I love the looks, the build, and basically everything about the car, I just don't love driving it. I was going to keep it because I do feel like it's a special car, but the idea of keeping something I don't really love for that money, plus constantly wondering about resale value, well, I decided to let it go (and I don't "need" the money). It's an amazing car, just not for me. I get more enjoyment out of the 718. I feel very good about my decision to let it go and am glad it's going to a very good home and I did not get hurt in the process. Plus, I'm really glad I got to experience the car for 3k miles and a full season. It actually makes me love my 718 that much more.
So money and value is really subjective. I totally agree with that.
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01-01-2024, 07:53 PM
#45
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
I spent about $95k on my CGTS40. The most I ever spent at that point on a car. Part of my logic was cost of ownership when factoring in resale value. Well, the flaw in that theory is needing to actually SELL the car! I just may keep it forever, that's how much I love it and I do not regret spending the money for one second.
But a year later I spent about $135k for my 911T (still have 718) and while I love the looks, the build, and basically everything about the car, I just don't love driving it. I was going to keep it because I do feel like it's a special car, but the idea of keeping something I don't really love for that money, plus constantly wondering about resale value, well, I decided to let it go (and I don't "need" the money). It's an amazing car, just not for me. I get more enjoyment out of the 718. I feel very good about my decision to let it go and am glad it's going to a very good home and I did not get hurt in the process. Plus, I'm really glad I got to experience the car for 3k miles and a full season. It actually makes me love my 718 that much more.
So money and value is really subjective. I totally agree with that.
But a year later I spent about $135k for my 911T (still have 718) and while I love the looks, the build, and basically everything about the car, I just don't love driving it. I was going to keep it because I do feel like it's a special car, but the idea of keeping something I don't really love for that money, plus constantly wondering about resale value, well, I decided to let it go (and I don't "need" the money). It's an amazing car, just not for me. I get more enjoyment out of the 718. I feel very good about my decision to let it go and am glad it's going to a very good home and I did not get hurt in the process. Plus, I'm really glad I got to experience the car for 3k miles and a full season. It actually makes me love my 718 that much more.
So money and value is really subjective. I totally agree with that.