boss2k

Are you a dealer , you seem to understand a lot of their ask

Larry Cable

nope!

Archimedes

But they absolutely can and they do it all the time. Are you new to the Porsche brand?

manifold danger

It just makes sense. And as someone who's just gone through this for a car "at MSRP" (this was back in October)- I got pretty much raked through the coals on a trade-in, and there was not a single damn thing I could do about it aside from walk away from the deal as I was standing right next to the car I'd waited almost a year for. Not an easy thing to do, so it definitely works to the dealer's advantage. I traded in a '19 718 BGTS and lost about $20k in equity. I pretty much considered it a "hidden ADM"- but this dealer bumped an out of state customer for me for an allocation AND got me a rapid turnaround on an allocation for a Macan GTS so what can I do. I hope I'm at least in good enough graces at this point (3 cars total from this dealer and regular service for 7 cars total over 5 years...) to justify a GT car allocation, if I ever choose to pursue one. At least that's what I tell myself...

Plus the market just isn't great right now. I've actually been loosely considering trading my car in and tested the waters a bit on value. I've gotten 2 offers at $100k, one at $103k. My car is a '23 with 3600 miles and an original MSRP of $114k. It is a PDK car but I honestly don't think that factors too heavily right now as there aren't many comps of '23s right now... but it's worth mentioning nonetheless as I am pretty sure over time the manual cars will likely fetch a little more.

Still, my point is that the market is not what it used to be, and trade-ins are the easiest way for dealers to "mask" this while maximizing their profits and reputation.

Larry Cable

@manifold danger for sharing your experience ... I suspect (but I have no evidence to support this conjecture) that dealers may be receiving some heat from PCNA about the ADMs they are charging ... hence this change in "marketing" - basically taking the ADM $'s and moving them from the "bottom line" into the "incidentals" ... this also benefits the dealer in this time of limited supply by giving them
another car to sell (CPO) so their ADM is effectively the margin on the trade in plus its subsequent resale...

there is some benefit to the pruchaser, since the purchase price is MSRP, and not MSRP+ADM, the resulting sales tax is directly proportional...

Zhao

Market still seems full retard where I am thx to spring. 2 weeks ago 25 GT4s for sale. Today, 15. If you're Canadian and want a miled out 2020 GT4 for above MSRP you're in luck. I think we have like 3 GTS 4.0s for sale in the whole country.

I'm tempted to put mine up for a stink price to test the market too but even if I was offered 50g above what I paid which is in the realm of possible here I'm not sure I'd take that. What do I replace it with? A 4rs I can't get, a 992 I don't want, or a lotus that's inferior?

Larry Cable

I think you asked and answered ... the only reason to do this was if you could "sell high" and "buy low" - and I dont think those conditions exist ... there is simply too much demand and not nearly enough supply ... and I don't buy into that oft quoted "we'll build as many as there are customers who want one ..." remark attributed to AP

I dont think there are profits to be made (& kept) by the private seller, esp one who would then go out and buy another car...

better to keep and enjoy your car!

pitt911

Too much back and forth
simple answer : on GT4 dealer holds all the cards
as a consumer , you have the right to negotiate as much as you can or walk away

Zhao

Ya, there really is no solution to replacing it that makes sense from any angle I can think of... Even being able to buy at MSRP here there is likely zero chance of an allocation on anything interesting, at least anytime soon.

subwoofer

This is not a bad deal at all based on my experience. Last year, I almost traded in my manual 2018 C4S to the local dealer ( Porsche of Nashua, NH) for a Macan S. Dealer offered 100k for my 911 and MSRP for the Macan which I loaded up with options. I decided not to get the Macan and sold my 911 through consignment and got back what I had paid for the car in 2017 which was 125k. I was looking for a BGTS but could not find any so I gave up and bought a cruiser convertible BMW 440i at MSRP in Florida. GT4 for small ADM and only 3k below KBB on the trade for a CS seems very good to me.

liudacris

I excitedly have the GT4 now, and closing the loop here for those interested. For those who think the deal was stupid for a GT4 allocation, so be it. Help me out on the next time I'm looking for an allocation on a limited GT car. I wasn't able to find anything better in the area. And from what I've seen on the forum and tried to work out with other dealers, it's been better than most.

Traded in the car and got pretty reasonable value on it IHMO. It was a bit more than ~$3k below KBB. Take it fwiw and while I call some bs, I'm sharing what the dealership told me and they may tell you - the delta is because of the work the shop needs to do to service car and make it CPO eligible. Sales dept and service dept budgets are kept separate. I'm sure they could figure something out if they wanted to. Regardless, it wasn't like they were going to change the trade in value much higher. A big factor for me was that it was also around $3k-$6k more than quotes I got from vendors (CarMax, GMTV, etc.) and some private data P31M156 sent over. Also, when push came to shove, they didn't force a trade in, but the price was solid and alluded to helping for future GT car prioritization. Normal dealer talk and YMMV.
TIP: When you first have an inkling you may trade in your car to the dealer, get an estimate. Even though I added miles and track days to the car, they just based it on my estimate several months ago rather than starting over and spending time having the team estimate again when I may change my mind.

Lucifer

Congrats!

What was the ADM?
3k below KBB isn't a bad offer at all. It is obvious that comfortably giving the car to a dealer without lifting a finger to sell it yourself, deal with buyers, pay for CarFax etc. etc., will result in less money.

Larry Cable

sounds like you got a reasonable deal, just as an FYI though that argument about the cost to them of CPO-ing your trade-in is simply USUAL DEALER HORSESH*T! - yes it does cost the dealership in time and potentially materials to process and prepare a car to be CPO'ed - and it is allegedly around $3k to do so, however, the dealership can sell that CPO car at a higher margin than they would/could if it were not CPO.

So all they are doing is protecting their margin at your expense ... AS USUAL... its the same game they play with the charge that PCNA/PAG level on them for European Delivery, despite the fact they get an additional allocation to sell for every ED they source, they try their damnest to get the customer to shoulder the cost indirectly.

liudacris

Yup. You can smell the bs, and sharing here as it won't be the last time the line is used. They're definitely making a profit on the trade in, and at least the trade-in value was still competitive with other quick offers on the market.

liudacris

$10k in SF Bay Area (where it tends to be on the higher end from I've seen)