cooler2442

The issue here is even though people have owned these cars I highly doubt they owned them at the same time for an extended period of time where you can truly compare them back to back to see the differences. As mentioned above I owned both a 718 Spyder and 981 GT4 for 6+ months and sold the 718 Spyder(981 GT4 has 10k of my own miles and the 718 Spyder had 4k of my own miles). I literally would drive them both back to back on the same exact day on the same exact canyon road to feel the difference and here's my feedback:

981 GT4 - Sound is much better and take this from someone who ran a 5k+ titanium exhaust on his 718 Spyder and it still didn't sound as good as my $1500 header setup on my 981 GT4. Interior sound is also much better, there's a lot more mechanical noises/ticking/etc from the 3.8 coming from the 3.8 which gives you a more "aural" enjoyment. The whole car feels less "refined" in terms of steering/shifter/etc which gives you more of that raw race car fee, it doesn't feel less refined in a bad way which is hard to describe but for example the shifter on the 718 GT4 is just too easy to get into place while on the 981 GT4 it feels amazing and you just keep wanting to jam it in there. Clutch is much stiffer which adds to the effect. The 718 felt like it was setup more for daily driving while the 981 GT4 you don't want to daily drive.

718 Spyder/GT4 - Engine is definitely better and you can feel the extra power/torque, very noticeable. I'd say this is the biggest benefit of it. Other big benefit for me is the rear of the car looks better. Other than that I have no other benefits compared to the 981 GT4 which is why I kept the 981 GT4 since it felt more special.

In the end I sold the Spyder and kept the 981 GT4, just the engine alone wasn't worth the 30k+ premium to me and I'm planning on buying a car with the GT3 4.0 engine which to me is worth a 50k+ price difference.

TRZ06

For most cars that is a combo of rubber bushings wearing and shocks slowly loosing their performance from the internals wearing.

With the GT4/Spyder there are less rubber bushings in the suspension and chassis, but there are still some.

This is the same reason that a car stored for a long period of time is sh*t and only there for visional value, as they just rot away.

GentianGentleman

iif i already had a GTS 4.0, but had never owned a 911. but always desired it. a GTS 991.1 is not a bad way to go about it.

having said that, i think you will find deleting the OAP from your GTS4.0 will give you the zing that you are missing.

baege

it's not the just a sound thing though, it seems to me the GTS is just too vanilla to be that special weekend car that I possibly keep forever. I actually think it sounds really good INSIDE the car as is and now that it just had its first oil service I find it noticeably louder exhuast wise as well (is that a thing?) and I would say loud enough for me

a GT4 or GTS 991.1 is more raw and special in lots of ways in terms of looks and the focused nature of the driving experience (maybe not so much with the 991.1 GTS)

Xxyion

I think if you're looking for that really special weekend sports car, you can't really do much better than the 981 GT4. IMO they are the best bang for your buck based on what you are looking for. The 718 GT4 still commands a premium (even if it is softening a bit) but a decently specced low mileage 981 GT4 can be had for roughly the same price as a MSRP GTS 4.0 depending on your area.

While many people will say the 718 4.0 is a huge improvement, the 981 is no slouch either. And the 981 GT4 is still more special than the GTS 4.0. It was going to be my 3rd choice if nether the GT4 or GTS worked out and the ONLY reason why i placed the GTS 4.0 higher than the 981 GT4 was because i wanted the more modern tech and i wanted to build out one for myself.

Alan C.

My 981 GT4 had a set of Dundon headers/tune, Tarett camber plates/drop links, TPC DSC and rear toe links. It was a great car both on track and in the Smokies.

I don’t think my current 718 GT4 is a major improvement over the modified 981 GT4.

baege

I can't tell you what exactly on the car I am feeling that feels "Old" just I know it when I feel it. It's one of the considerations that put me over the edge to get the GTS over an older R8 manual. Even the low km R8's I drove felt "old" in comparison to a brand new porsche, looser and less tight, because well, they are old. I feel like a 981 GT4 will feel a bit like that compared to a newer 718 but to be fair I haven't tried them back to back with similar mileage.

akhbhaat

I don't blame you for thinking the GTS is a little too vanilla to be a dedicated weekend car for years to come (I agree), but I'm not convinced the GT4 in particular really offers what you seem to be looking for.

To me, the GT4 is best suited to a very specific type of buyer: somebody who's going to do a lot of track touring i.e. multiple track weekends per year, driving up to 2-4+ hours to the venue each time. New enough to be consistently reliable despite some abuse, livable and practical enough to self tow several hours (with space for overnight bags) without making you hate your life, and fast/visceral enough to put on a show at the track. Really great for that specific purpose and that's mainly how I (eventually) used it. Funny thing is that I actually became that person to make more sense of the car, and that's not originally what I bought it to do (in short, the car started to own me rather than the other way around, but that's another story for another day).

I really liked both of them on track. But as a road car, again, the limits are too high and the car is very composed...buttoned up, even. The characteristics you describe as making the car "raw" or "special" are there, but mostly just superficial theatrics--inputs and sound. You will acclimate to this and it will fade into the background over time (it can happen even over the course of a single very long drive), and on top of that is not drastically different in character than a Cayman GTS (they are built on the same platform). So dynamically, I did not find either GT4 to be particularly entertaining at road legal speeds; best way I can put it is that you'll be riding around in a car that has tall gearing and very high limits and is set up to encourage you to exploit that, but when you can't do this because of traffic and law enforcement or even just a reasonable sense of self-preservation, it feels like driving around with (for lack of a better term) blue *****.

The GT4 is not "raw" like an older enthusiast Porsche (e.g. 964 RSA or 996 GT3) or a Lotus with incredibly rich steering and borderline punishing NVH. It's not like a Miata where it has short gearing and all sorts of dive and sway and feels like you're driving the wheels off at 50 mph, or an M2 or whatever where you can throw the rear axle around and be a clown. It's an edgier Cayman GTS. You won't really notice or appreciate the aero or adjustable suspension until you're rounding a corner at 120 mph.

If you aren't the buyer described above and truly want something that feels perpetually special I would get a Lotus Exige/Evora/Emira or a 996/997.1 GT3. And maybe pair it with a Miata for those days when you just want to dick around.

colnagoG60

Unless the frame is flexing, don't let an older car stop you. Getting all the rubber suspension bits, bearings, and mounts replaced can make and old car feel new. Just factor that into the price if need be.

baege

spot on post, emira is something I have been thinking about but not a huge fan of supercharger whine and overall the toyota engine is not as inspiring as the flat six

Sharm

Another perspective here:

I owned a 991.1 GTS manual (still pictured in my profile as you can see) for 5 years and traded in for a 718 Spyder, which I have now owned for 2 years.

Would disagree with the above regarding the engine. There is no comparing the 3.8L engine of the 911.1 GTS to the Evo 4.0. The evo revs MUCH freer, all the way up to 8000rpm, while the 3.8 starts to lose gas. The other thing I would definitely mention is the clutch feel: the 4.0 clutch feel is significantly lighter and easier to shift than the 3.8. Finally the suspension of the GT4/Spyder is a step up from the 991.1.

That being said, the Spyder is much louder in the cabin with less sound deadening, and you will hear all the mechanicals much more than the GTS. The GTS is definitely easier to live with on a day-to-day basis. It is a tad higher, so less scrapes etc. The GTS is slightly more compliant in its suspension and more comfortable overall. The GTS had back seats which may be useful in a crunch (I rarely used them). The GTS DEFINITELY sounds better ON THE OUTSIDE since it is a 911 (has rear engine with less back pressure) .. I recall it having a certain “distinct bite in low end with howling wail at top end” and it has the overrun grumble to it. However, the 718 has better intake noise and I would say once you’re on it at the high end it’s almost a wash. The “dead spot “ for the Spyder at low speed /low rev is a big issue and may need correction with opening the valves.

Looks are obviously subjective so I won’t get into that, liked the look of both my cars but looks are one of the most important aspect in purchasing a sports car to me so it was a priority. Funny enough, even though I had what I would consider a “loud” color on my GTS (carmine red) I get more attention both in and out of the car from my Spyder (carrera white) - which I actually don’t prefer and is one of the reasons I chose white in the first place.

This is all without getting into the dynamics difference of the 911 and 718, which is obviously a whole nother discussion.

Montaver

Having gone from a 981 to a 718 - the 718 definitely feels more 'solid'. Its hard to describe but the the 718 has a feeling of singular construction that my 981 didnt have. I suspect there is extra chassis bracing. I bought both cars at 4k miles so its not about bushings being worn out etc.

Montaver

Interesting summary. After spending a lot of time at the track, whatever car I'm driving pushing it on the road feels stressful. Cops around every corner, deer, pot holes etc etc. I guess if I lived in California with hundreds of miles of canyon to blitz it would be different, but around NYC its very limited unless you drive 1hr+ and even then they don't really compare. I do enjoy just putting the GT4 around though, as it has so much feeling, manual transmission engagement etc. and it puts a smile on my face. But the desire to go full send is always there for sure.

colnagoG60

"Worn out bushings" is in reference to a car with more miles and or years than a 981 GT4. But again, if one can't describe "what is loose", how can one condemn a car as a whole "because it's old/older"? Point is, that many of the causes "looseness" are fairly easy to reverse.

Montaver

No one is condemning it? People are so touchy on this forum lol