718 GT4 Spacers
#46
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AtoB
You and @Pete C have me flip-flopping in mind all over the place . . . I was ready to hit the purchase button yesterday on the FC 7mm spacers because I actually liked the fact that the spacers are flat and come with screws to mount to the hub.
However, all along I wanted something a bit bigger, and 4wheelspacer offers 10 and 12mm spacers . . . I get the sense I want a little more poke than you are after? I want the front treads to be at the outer edge of the top of the fender well so the sidewall 'bulges' just outside the outer edger of the fender well.
I wish you would have taken a picture of the 8mm and 10mm on your car but, since you did not, can you tell me which of the two accomplishes what I stated as my desire above.
Thank you again
Avera
You and @Pete C have me flip-flopping in mind all over the place . . . I was ready to hit the purchase button yesterday on the FC 7mm spacers because I actually liked the fact that the spacers are flat and come with screws to mount to the hub.
However, all along I wanted something a bit bigger, and 4wheelspacer offers 10 and 12mm spacers . . . I get the sense I want a little more poke than you are after? I want the front treads to be at the outer edge of the top of the fender well so the sidewall 'bulges' just outside the outer edger of the fender well.
I wish you would have taken a picture of the 8mm and 10mm on your car but, since you did not, can you tell me which of the two accomplishes what I stated as my desire above.
Thank you again
Avera
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Avera (08-27-2022)
#47
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
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@dnimi123
So, I did some reading you requested
Admittedly, I am driver with little mechanical insight, so my questions will likely seem very rudimentary to you
I have no idea what rear toe links achieve, whether Tarrett or RSS?
I mean, I gather they will improve 'handling' but would they do so in any noticeable manner for a guy like me who is nothing more than someone who enjoys daily spirited driving?
You have made it simple. Get rear toe links and have front/rear camber set to -2.0. I assume Porsche dealer could perform both of these tasks but, again, would this have a dramatic impact on my perception of handling for spirited daily driving?
Thank you in advance for your feedback.
Avera
So, I did some reading you requested
Admittedly, I am driver with little mechanical insight, so my questions will likely seem very rudimentary to you
I have no idea what rear toe links achieve, whether Tarrett or RSS?
I mean, I gather they will improve 'handling' but would they do so in any noticeable manner for a guy like me who is nothing more than someone who enjoys daily spirited driving?
You have made it simple. Get rear toe links and have front/rear camber set to -2.0. I assume Porsche dealer could perform both of these tasks but, again, would this have a dramatic impact on my perception of handling for spirited daily driving?
Thank you in advance for your feedback.
Avera
#48
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
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Thank you everyone who contributed to this thread and toward helping me make a decision regarding spacer for my 718 GT4
After all the excellent feedback and consideration, I decided to go with the Future Classic 7mm spacers for the front only.
I realize this whole process is a 'first world matter' that should not consume as much time as has been spent . . . I guess this is what car enthusiasts do with our extra time.
I will have the spacers installed once they arrive and take some pics for any future enthusiast with similar interest.
Avera
After all the excellent feedback and consideration, I decided to go with the Future Classic 7mm spacers for the front only.
I realize this whole process is a 'first world matter' that should not consume as much time as has been spent . . . I guess this is what car enthusiasts do with our extra time.
I will have the spacers installed once they arrive and take some pics for any future enthusiast with similar interest.
Avera
#49
Rennlist Member
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@dnimi123
So, I did some reading you requested
Admittedly, I am driver with little mechanical insight, so my questions will likely seem very rudimentary to you
I have no idea what rear toe links achieve, whether Tarrett or RSS?
I mean, I gather they will improve 'handling' but would they do so in any noticeable manner for a guy like me who is nothing more than someone who enjoys daily spirited driving?
You have made it simple. Get rear toe links and have front/rear camber set to -2.0. I assume Porsche dealer could perform both of these tasks but, again, would this have a dramatic impact on my perception of handling for spirited daily driving?
Thank you in advance for your feedback.
Avera
So, I did some reading you requested
Admittedly, I am driver with little mechanical insight, so my questions will likely seem very rudimentary to you
I have no idea what rear toe links achieve, whether Tarrett or RSS?
I mean, I gather they will improve 'handling' but would they do so in any noticeable manner for a guy like me who is nothing more than someone who enjoys daily spirited driving?
You have made it simple. Get rear toe links and have front/rear camber set to -2.0. I assume Porsche dealer could perform both of these tasks but, again, would this have a dramatic impact on my perception of handling for spirited daily driving?
Thank you in advance for your feedback.
Avera
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Avera (08-28-2022)
#50
Rennlist Member
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@Avera I see you are in Florida. Depending where exactly... there is no shortage of amazing Porsche suspension/alignment specialists. @BGB Motorsports is one of the best on all the country, maybe even the world and they LOVE Caymans!
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Avera (08-28-2022)
#51
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
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@dnimi123
Wow! You have been gracious with your time insights . . . thank you very much.
One more question . . . if I did not get the rear toe links and just told the dealer to get the camber as close to -2.0 as possible in both front and rear, do you feel that would be an adequate starting point?
In a prior post you indicated the rear camber is limited by the stock toe links, hence, I should get the toe links to get the rear camber to -2.0. I am just curious how close I can get to -2.0 in the rear with the stock suspension? I am also assuming the front can get to -2.0 camber with stock setup.
I will check out BGB Motorsports
Thank you again
Avera
Edit: BGB Motor Sports is about 1 hour from my home
Wow! You have been gracious with your time insights . . . thank you very much.
One more question . . . if I did not get the rear toe links and just told the dealer to get the camber as close to -2.0 as possible in both front and rear, do you feel that would be an adequate starting point?
In a prior post you indicated the rear camber is limited by the stock toe links, hence, I should get the toe links to get the rear camber to -2.0. I am just curious how close I can get to -2.0 in the rear with the stock suspension? I am also assuming the front can get to -2.0 camber with stock setup.
I will check out BGB Motorsports
Thank you again
Avera
Edit: BGB Motor Sports is about 1 hour from my home
Last edited by Avera; 08-28-2022 at 09:16 PM. Reason: Update
#52
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It'a not that the toe links limit camber per se, but once you have too much negative camber the stock toe links don't have enough adjustment to get the toe back to where you want it since toe will change when camber changes.
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Avera (08-28-2022)
#53
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
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Do you happen to know the maximum negative camber the stock toe links can reasonably handle?
The reason I ask is because I wanted to start out by maximizing the negative camber the front and rear can handle to assess whether I can appreciate a difference from my current setup . . . which @dnimi123 has stated could be just about anywhere.
I might find that my current setup is -1 up front and rear, and getting them both to -1.5 would theoretically make a significant difference?
I am assuming I want the front and rear camber to be matched which, according to discussion, means the rear toe links would be the limiting factor. . . hence, I asked if you know the maximum negative camber the stock toe link can reasonably handle?
Thank you again
Avera
#54
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The maximum we were able to get in the rear with stock parts on my GT4 was -1.55 degrees while still keeping acceptable toe (22 minutes total toe). This is in the ballpark of what others have reported, although I have seen a little higher at times. The fronts ended up at -2.35 degrees but we were trying to keep it from getting too far away from the rears. It's common for front to be higher than rear.
The rear was already at -1.4 degrees from the factory so that wasn't really a big increase.
You might want to browse through the fairly informative thread here: https://rennlist.com/forums/718-gts-...knowledge.html
The rear was already at -1.4 degrees from the factory so that wasn't really a big increase.
You might want to browse through the fairly informative thread here: https://rennlist.com/forums/718-gts-...knowledge.html
Last edited by StormRune; 08-28-2022 at 11:07 PM.
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Avera (08-29-2022)
#55
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
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The maximum we were able to get in the rear with stock parts on my GT4 was -1.55 degrees while still keeping acceptable toe (22 minutes total toe). This is in the ballpark of what others have reported, although I have seen a little higher at times. The fronts ended up at -2.35 degrees but we were trying to keep it from getting too far away from the rears. It's common for front to be higher than rear.
The rear was already at -1.4 degrees from the factory so that wasn't really a big increase.
You might want to browse through the fairly informative thread here: https://rennlist.com/forums/718-gts-...knowledge.html
The rear was already at -1.4 degrees from the factory so that wasn't really a big increase.
You might want to browse through the fairly informative thread here: https://rennlist.com/forums/718-gts-...knowledge.html
I did take a look at the thread you referenced, as well as others
As you state, it seems the max camber one can safely achieve with stock rear toe links is -1.5 to -1.6
It was also suggested that you want to keep the front and rear camber within 0.5 of one another . . . so, if I were to get the rear camber to -1.5 with stock toe links, that suggests I should shoot for -2.0 up front.
As @dnimi123 stated early on, most suggest just getting the rear toe links and shooting for -2.0 in the rear the rear and -2.5 up front.
I will discuss all of this with my local Porsche dealership and/or BGB Motor Sports to get an idea of whether I want to optimize stock setup or optimize with rear toe links . . . again, my interest pertains to spirited daily driving and not the track.
Thank you again
Avera
#56
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
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@dnimi123
Eager to get FC 7mm spacers installed and have an appointment next week at dealership.
Tried to inquire with service agent about placing aftermarket rear toe links at the same time with alignment.
To the point, the service agent was baffled as to why I wanted aftermarket toe links and was not sure it was something they could/would do . . . ‘I will have to get back to you’ is where I stand.
BGB Motor Sports is an option, but they have yet to get back with me, and it is a bit of travel that would require some coordinated planning on my part.
So, I am turning to the experts for advice which, more often than not, are forum members like yourself.
My understanding after reading forum threads is that the limiting factor with the stock setup is rear camber. I believe -1.5 is the limit. I also read that you do not want to have the front/rear offset by more than 0.5. As such, the maximum up front on the stock set up would be -2.0.
I know it is not exactly what you advised, but I am doing the best I can under the circumstances. Again, other forum members have stated a noticeable improvement after optimizing the stock alignment (including camber), however, I do not know what ‘optimal’ camber implies . . . I applied some reason and concluded -2.0 front and -1.5 rear is optimal for the stock setup.
Do you agree and/or have further thoughts on the matter?
Thank you in advance
Avera
Edit:As follow-up, I just spoke with AJ at BGB Motor Sports . . . great guy!!
AJ indicated they just installed their last set of rear toe links and – given the times – he is uncertain when more will be available.
So, for now, I am going to stick with trying to optimize the stock set up . . . hopefully, sometime in the near future I can make the next step with rear toe links.
Eager to get FC 7mm spacers installed and have an appointment next week at dealership.
Tried to inquire with service agent about placing aftermarket rear toe links at the same time with alignment.
To the point, the service agent was baffled as to why I wanted aftermarket toe links and was not sure it was something they could/would do . . . ‘I will have to get back to you’ is where I stand.
BGB Motor Sports is an option, but they have yet to get back with me, and it is a bit of travel that would require some coordinated planning on my part.
So, I am turning to the experts for advice which, more often than not, are forum members like yourself.
My understanding after reading forum threads is that the limiting factor with the stock setup is rear camber. I believe -1.5 is the limit. I also read that you do not want to have the front/rear offset by more than 0.5. As such, the maximum up front on the stock set up would be -2.0.
I know it is not exactly what you advised, but I am doing the best I can under the circumstances. Again, other forum members have stated a noticeable improvement after optimizing the stock alignment (including camber), however, I do not know what ‘optimal’ camber implies . . . I applied some reason and concluded -2.0 front and -1.5 rear is optimal for the stock setup.
Do you agree and/or have further thoughts on the matter?
Thank you in advance
Avera
Edit:As follow-up, I just spoke with AJ at BGB Motor Sports . . . great guy!!
AJ indicated they just installed their last set of rear toe links and – given the times – he is uncertain when more will be available.
So, for now, I am going to stick with trying to optimize the stock set up . . . hopefully, sometime in the near future I can make the next step with rear toe links.
Last edited by Avera; 08-31-2022 at 04:53 PM.
#57
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
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FC 7mm spacers in front and alignment performed
Regarding spacers I could show a pic, but it would be underwhelming in terms of the ability for a photo to capture the 'improvement'
That stated, in person, the impact is very satisfying to me
It is not the amount of poke, rather, the improvement in too much stock recess
Another point of visual reference . . . the rear wheels have a much deeper concavity compared to the front. Hard to explain, but no matter how far out you poke the front wheels/tires, something about the lack of significant wheel concavity is underwhelming . . . at least to me.
Overall, what I can say is that the FC 7mm spacers up front turned out very satisfactory. I do not think more poke would give more satisfaction than 10 or 12 or 15mm spacers. Again, something about the wheel concavity - or lack thereof - is a visually limiting factor.
Regarding alignment, I had the technician maximize the limiting factor, which is the -1.5 to -1.6 rear camber with stock toe links. Everything else was optimized off the rear camber. The car handles great but, to be honest, I cannot tell a difference from the pre-alignment/front spacer placement.
On to the next first world problem . . .
Avera
Regarding spacers I could show a pic, but it would be underwhelming in terms of the ability for a photo to capture the 'improvement'
That stated, in person, the impact is very satisfying to me
It is not the amount of poke, rather, the improvement in too much stock recess
Another point of visual reference . . . the rear wheels have a much deeper concavity compared to the front. Hard to explain, but no matter how far out you poke the front wheels/tires, something about the lack of significant wheel concavity is underwhelming . . . at least to me.
Overall, what I can say is that the FC 7mm spacers up front turned out very satisfactory. I do not think more poke would give more satisfaction than 10 or 12 or 15mm spacers. Again, something about the wheel concavity - or lack thereof - is a visually limiting factor.
Regarding alignment, I had the technician maximize the limiting factor, which is the -1.5 to -1.6 rear camber with stock toe links. Everything else was optimized off the rear camber. The car handles great but, to be honest, I cannot tell a difference from the pre-alignment/front spacer placement.
On to the next first world problem . . .
Avera
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dnimi123 (09-11-2022)
#58
Rennlist Member
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FC 7mm spacers in front and alignment performed
Regarding spacers I could show a pic, but it would be underwhelming in terms of the ability for a photo to capture the 'improvement'
That stated, in person, the impact is very satisfying to me
It is not the amount of poke, rather, the improvement in too much stock recess
Another point of visual reference . . . the rear wheels have a much deeper concavity compared to the front. Hard to explain, but no matter how far out you poke the front wheels/tires, something about the lack of significant wheel concavity is underwhelming . . . at least to me.
Overall, what I can say is that the FC 7mm spacers up front turned out very satisfactory. I do not think more poke would give more satisfaction than 10 or 12 or 15mm spacers. Again, something about the wheel concavity - or lack thereof - is a visually limiting factor.
Regarding alignment, I had the technician maximize the limiting factor, which is the -1.5 to -1.6 rear camber with stock toe links. Everything else was optimized off the rear camber. The car handles great but, to be honest, I cannot tell a difference from the pre-alignment/front spacer placement.
On to the next first world problem . . .
Avera
Regarding spacers I could show a pic, but it would be underwhelming in terms of the ability for a photo to capture the 'improvement'
That stated, in person, the impact is very satisfying to me
It is not the amount of poke, rather, the improvement in too much stock recess
Another point of visual reference . . . the rear wheels have a much deeper concavity compared to the front. Hard to explain, but no matter how far out you poke the front wheels/tires, something about the lack of significant wheel concavity is underwhelming . . . at least to me.
Overall, what I can say is that the FC 7mm spacers up front turned out very satisfactory. I do not think more poke would give more satisfaction than 10 or 12 or 15mm spacers. Again, something about the wheel concavity - or lack thereof - is a visually limiting factor.
Regarding alignment, I had the technician maximize the limiting factor, which is the -1.5 to -1.6 rear camber with stock toe links. Everything else was optimized off the rear camber. The car handles great but, to be honest, I cannot tell a difference from the pre-alignment/front spacer placement.
On to the next first world problem . . .
Avera
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Avera (09-11-2022)
#59
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Hi guys,
I was wondering if anyone could help me out here. I ordered and paid for the 5mm spacers from Future Classic. However, I haven't received my item and I tried emailing them a few times and can't seem to be able to get a response. I was just looking at their Instagram and seems like it's happening to a few other people as well. Anyone from the US can get in touch with them and see what's going on? Thanks in advance!
Derek
I was wondering if anyone could help me out here. I ordered and paid for the 5mm spacers from Future Classic. However, I haven't received my item and I tried emailing them a few times and can't seem to be able to get a response. I was just looking at their Instagram and seems like it's happening to a few other people as well. Anyone from the US can get in touch with them and see what's going on? Thanks in advance!
Derek
#60
Racer
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Hi guys,
I was wondering if anyone could help me out here. I ordered and paid for the 5mm spacers from Future Classic. However, I haven't received my item and I tried emailing them a few times and can't seem to be able to get a response. I was just looking at their Instagram and seems like it's happening to a few other people as well. Anyone from the US can get in touch with them and see what's going on? Thanks in advance!
Derek
I was wondering if anyone could help me out here. I ordered and paid for the 5mm spacers from Future Classic. However, I haven't received my item and I tried emailing them a few times and can't seem to be able to get a response. I was just looking at their Instagram and seems like it's happening to a few other people as well. Anyone from the US can get in touch with them and see what's going on? Thanks in advance!
Derek