Originally Posted by Dan Nagy

I’m not going to mention a dealership name, but I believe that a dealer put in a demand order using my name without my permission. When the car went into production, I received a Track Your Dream invitation for a car that I did not order.

Originally Posted by 0-Day

I think it's pretty clear what I am saying and what many US Porsche dealerships are doing. But fine, I will spell it out for you:

The dealers (I would guess most of them, based on anecdotes from this board) play games with their internal "waitlists." Customers are regularly passed over on their position in the internal dealership "waitlist" queue for more profitable customers that are either lower on the waitlist or not even on the waitlist at all. The most profitable customers would be 1) Customers with an in-demand vehicle for trade 2) long time and mostly local customers that generate above average revenue for the dealer and 3) Customers that want to order a new vehicle that is bloated with expensive and profitable options. I contend that this is clearly an unscrupulous business practice.

Originally Posted by Dan Nagy

I’m not going to mention a dealership name, but I believe that a dealer put in a demand order using my name without my permission. When the car went into production, I received a Track Your Dream invitation for a car that I did not order.

Originally Posted by 0-Day

I think it's pretty clear what I am saying and what many US Porsche dealerships are doing. But fine, I will spell it out for you:

The dealers (I would guess most of them, based on anecdotes from this board) play games with their internal "waitlists." Customers are regularly passed over on their position in the internal dealership "waitlist" queue for more profitable customers that are either lower on the waitlist or not even on the waitlist at all. The most profitable customers would be 1) Customers with an in-demand vehicle for trade 2) long time and mostly local customers that generate above average revenue for the dealer and 3) Customers that want to order a new vehicle that is bloated with expensive and profitable options. I contend that this is clearly an unscrupulous business practice. And this business practice fosters mistrust and animosity between Porsche customers/potential Porsche customers and independent Porsche dealerships. Over the long term, this damages the Porsche brand among many potential customers (and admittedly also bolsters the brand amongst a few lucky customers). Again, you need look no further than this Porsche message board for frequent evidence of this.

The independent Porsche dealerships in the US are not doing this unscrupulous business practice just because they are meanie jerks. The dealers are doing it because they obviously have a strong financial incentive to behave this way. But logically it also then follows that if Porsche corporate is not taking basic steps to discourage unscrupulous behavior of their dealers like this, then Porsche corporate are at best tacitly condoning it and at worst incentivizing it financially.

No one is "owed" a car, of course. But a customer or potential customer who in good faith puts down a deposit and believes that they are being placed in a first-in-first-out queue should not be bumped out of line by another customer based on the dealer's whim.

I agree with you that most dealers are pretty honest about telling customers their odds of getting a car. And many dealers will tell prospective customers that "Hey we already have X people on the waitlist. So we are not taking anymore deposits." But I don't believe that a majority of dealers are honest about honoring the first-in-first-out order of their dealership "waitlist" deposit/order queue. It would be trivial for Porsche corporate to address this issue by requiring demand orders for all customers and potential customers and enforcing first-in-first-out for that order queue. But Porsche corporate chooses not to...

Originally Posted by TXshaggy

What unscrupulous actions or shenanigans are dealers playing again?

Is someone owed a car because V070? Oldest V070 gets next car?

I think it’s clear from the allocation thread most dealers are pretty honest telling clients their chances.

Originally Posted by jeanrabelais

Why are "Order Demands" such a thorn in the side of some peeps? Seems like an internal corporate/vendor funny bone or something. When I first heard the term, and I asked my SA to explain what he meant and I wrote about it here and in that Thread there was a Lot of Noise too. Weird that one of the biggest know it all-negative-bullies here is the moderator. Just saying. don't know why it has to be like that here on a Fancy car forum.

Originally Posted by DreiPedals

I'm certain that I can't be the only party with the money set aside who's really frustrated lately. Best of luck.

Originally Posted by Xxyion

100%
I've been saving for the GT4 for quite a few years now. I should have done my research back then but I didn't realize how Porsche did their business and now that I'm in a position to buy, I have to deal with ADM and this super convoluted waitlist system that is different for each dealership. Had I known better, I would have put in a deposit for MSRP years ago. But also seeing used GT4s selling for massively above what they were selling for MSRP is really giving me a sour taste in my mouth. It really presents this barrier of entry that honestly shouldn't be there. Why should I pay more for a used one, than I would pay for a new one that I've specced out, even including an ADM. Yes I understand the car market is nuts right now. but the majority is dealership greed more than anything else. If dealerships weren't allowed to sell used vehicles, the pricing wouldn't be so insane in my opinion. Just the other day I saw a GT4 priced at 190k. A used GT4 priced for almost 200k. Yes most likely this is a car that's just being held for someone else. But its also one of 5 available used GT4s in the US that has a PDK. Just insane.

Originally Posted by DreiPedals

Yup, very similar boat here. One problem I have with your reply. Even if you had put down a 'no ADM deal deposit', if the dealership got your allocation released for spec last night but someone walks in today and offers to pay 15k above sticker - "your" allocation isn't yours. That's $hitty operating to me, really really poor - but is what is happening across the country right now. Absolutely agree, for a car of this status, there's no reason that a used one should cost more than new MSRP. It's just really discouraging. I always saw P as one of the final stops on my journey through:

• Cheap used starter car
• cheap less used american 2nd car
• pricier japanese 3rd car
• even pricier 'entry level luxury' japanese 4th car
• first 'sports' car
• first German car
• Put the family in a luxury German SUV
• A REAL german sportscar
• Something that speaks Italian.

I'll let you guess how far I've progressed in this mission checklist. It's quite possible I end up skipping the penultimate step here, and it's not due to lack of desire, funds, or the car not being good at what it's built for.

FWIW, one of the guys I drive with just picked up a CPO GT4 with 5-6k miles (PDK, Steels, comfort seats, yellow). All in costs, he spent about 11-13k over msrp on the car.

Not to even mention the BS with the RS model.....where you and I and everyone else knew it was coming, but no dealership would take a 'deposit' or put you on a 'list' - only to then have the car be released for spec and every dealership acting as if there was no prior interest or customers who asked to get a reservation. Nope, just VIPs, f'u to the fans who keep up to speed on what they really want and unfortunately have to plan a little bit for a 200k+ spend.

Originally Posted by TXRubicon

Welcome to capitalism.