LOST 10 HP with JCR EXHAUST (Non-silences Valved Race Pipes)
11-02-2021, 02:07 PM
#61
Show me a fan that is capable of generating 60-100mph wind speed. I will wait...
JCR's official dyno results that shows 13hp gain has a Costco fan on a red bucket for proper setup. You call that scientific? I am not claiming that better air flow does not impact the output, my point is both baseline and JCR Exhaust dyno runs had identical airflow setups. They should equally be underpowered compared to real life environments.
Also let's note, the same setup (no fans blowing air into side air intakes),on the same dyno machine, operated by the same tech yielded 30whp with SOUL's Race Pipe, which by the way cost less than half of what you pay for JCR muffler alone.
Jotech's dyno run on SOUL Race Pipes (Muffler + OAP)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvV7...rmanceProducts
The "scientific" dyno run on JCR exhaust with Costco fan and red bucket
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQPA...CRDevelopments
JCR's official dyno results that shows 13hp gain has a Costco fan on a red bucket for proper setup. You call that scientific? I am not claiming that better air flow does not impact the output, my point is both baseline and JCR Exhaust dyno runs had identical airflow setups. They should equally be underpowered compared to real life environments.
Also let's note, the same setup (no fans blowing air into side air intakes),on the same dyno machine, operated by the same tech yielded 30whp with SOUL's Race Pipe, which by the way cost less than half of what you pay for JCR muffler alone.
Jotech's dyno run on SOUL Race Pipes (Muffler + OAP)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvV7...rmanceProducts
The "scientific" dyno run on JCR exhaust with Costco fan and red bucket
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQPA...CRDevelopments
2200 CFM through a 16" x 3" rectangle converts to 75 mph. This a cheap and inexpensive fan and there are much more powerful fans pushing 4000 cfm in only a slightly larger housing. Very easy to move proper air flow to simulate lower speed driving conditions
11-02-2021, 02:10 PM
#62
I had the opposite occur, the car gained almost 30hp from the JCR exhaust manifold—everything else being stock. The gains and change in power delivery were like two different cars, I should probably make my own thread as not to hijack this one, but was incredibly surprised how much the JCR headers uncorked the engine,
11-02-2021, 02:36 PM
#63
dyno humper thread.... they're the best! 
The following 2 users liked this post by HooosierDaddy:
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11-02-2021, 03:42 PM
#64
I had the opposite occur, the car gained almost 30hp from the JCR exhaust manifold—everything else being stock. The gains and change in power delivery were like two different cars, I should probably make my own thread as not to hijack this one, but was incredibly surprised how much the JCR headers uncorked the engine,
11-02-2021, 04:38 PM
#66
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I had the opposite occur, the car gained almost 30hp from the JCR exhaust manifold—everything else being stock. The gains and change in power delivery were like two different cars, I should probably make my own thread as not to hijack this one, but was incredibly surprised how much the JCR headers uncorked the engine,
JC
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11-02-2021, 04:48 PM
#67
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What makes you say this?
GPS data demonstrating straight line speeds being in line with 991.2 GT3 RS says it all really, certainly back's up everything you're feeling. You dont gain straight line speed without having extra power on tap!
Hopefully shares a post
JC
Hopefully shares a post
JC
11-02-2021, 05:16 PM
#68
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11-02-2021, 05:44 PM
#69
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11-02-2021, 06:13 PM
#70
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11-03-2021, 06:22 AM
#71
Think we really need independant tests, as all manufacturers claim improvments. Best way is to get a few different car configs together and test at the same time.
11-03-2021, 02:18 PM
#72
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All of our sign off dyno testing is completed on completely independent dyno's. We don't have our own in-house dyno. I like to develop parts on the track where conditions are representative and where our customers enjoy using their cars and then use the dyno to verify results / findings.
You can check out the video below from our runs on the Dyno with our 718 GT4 below
I think it goes without saying that it's absolutely not in our interest to fudge figures or claim things that aren't true. Good reputations aren't built on lies and I always endeavour to be as transparent as possible with any of our testing and results.
In regards to independent dyno test results, a customer earlier in the thread clearly stated that they found 30hp gains in their own test and was immediately shot down. Would further independent test results being shared really make any difference if you (and others) have already made their minds up that it's not true. Maybe, maybe not?
With that said, I have reached out to a bunch of customers and asked them to share their results.
With all that said it brings me round nicely as to the reason why I much prefer to deal with real world acceleration data , lap times, speed deltas, etc etc rather than dyno figures. Again, this has been discussed at length on the Dragy thread which can be found at the link below. Our car has also by far the fastest 100-200kph time recorded and backed up with video footage, make of that what you will.
https://rennlist.com/forums/718-gts-...-na-718-a.html
JC
11-03-2021, 03:22 PM
#73
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I found your comment/s interesting for a couple of reasons. The first being the mention of 'life experience' whilst seemingly having zero direct experience of our parts installed on a 718 GT4 / Spyder, please correct me if I'm wrong. Secondly your statement that there is nothing special about our parts versus Dundon and Cargraphics, whilst being an opinion that you're entirely entitled to, doesn't take much consideration of the fact that both of those companies also claim more than 10-15hp gains from their manifolds too.
All of our sign off dyno testing is completed on completely independent dyno's. We don't have our own in-house dyno. I like to develop parts on the track where conditions are representative and where our customers enjoy using their cars and then use the dyno to verify results / findings.
You can check out the video below from our runs on the Dyno with our 718 GT4 below
https://youtu.be/REYv0Mjamc4
I think it goes without saying that it's absolutely not in our interest to fudge figures or claim things that aren't true. Good reputations aren't built on lies and I always endeavour to be as transparent as possible with any of our testing and results.
In regards to independent dyno test results, a customer earlier in the thread clearly stated that they found 30hp gains in their own test and was immediately shot down. Would further independent test results being shared really make any difference if you (and others) have already made their minds up that it's not true. Maybe, maybe not?
With that said, I have reached out to a bunch of customers and asked them to share their results.
With all that said it brings me round nicely as to the reason why I much prefer to deal with real world acceleration data , lap times, speed deltas, etc etc rather than dyno figures. Again, this has been discussed at length on the Dragy thread which can be found at the link below. Our car has also by far the fastest 100-200kph time recorded and backed up with video footage, make of that what you will.
https://rennlist.com/forums/718-gts-...-na-718-a.html
JC
All of our sign off dyno testing is completed on completely independent dyno's. We don't have our own in-house dyno. I like to develop parts on the track where conditions are representative and where our customers enjoy using their cars and then use the dyno to verify results / findings.
You can check out the video below from our runs on the Dyno with our 718 GT4 below
https://youtu.be/REYv0Mjamc4
I think it goes without saying that it's absolutely not in our interest to fudge figures or claim things that aren't true. Good reputations aren't built on lies and I always endeavour to be as transparent as possible with any of our testing and results.
In regards to independent dyno test results, a customer earlier in the thread clearly stated that they found 30hp gains in their own test and was immediately shot down. Would further independent test results being shared really make any difference if you (and others) have already made their minds up that it's not true. Maybe, maybe not?
With that said, I have reached out to a bunch of customers and asked them to share their results.
With all that said it brings me round nicely as to the reason why I much prefer to deal with real world acceleration data , lap times, speed deltas, etc etc rather than dyno figures. Again, this has been discussed at length on the Dragy thread which can be found at the link below. Our car has also by far the fastest 100-200kph time recorded and backed up with video footage, make of that what you will.
https://rennlist.com/forums/718-gts-...-na-718-a.html
JC
As for your acceleration claims. Sorry but they are subject to multiple considerations as well. The weather for one, driver for another, other mods, etc.. You make your parts from titanium and iconel, which is lighter then stainless steel. Your gains could be from weight savings versus power gains.
11-03-2021, 03:34 PM
#74
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no offense, but you’re not understanding the context. My life experience is that every time a new car comes out, a vendor posts a product with a specific claim. The problem is we have been that this road multiple times now. The 981 GT4 sub forum is full of these claims and now 5 years later most have been debunked. But ti summarize what we learned: Removal of the cats nets the big gains, then you get a bit more from a long tube design. On the 981, we were taking single digit gains… closer to the 1-4hp side between manufacturers. This is proven by multiple dynos, not just one.
As for your acceleration claims. Sorry but they are subject to multiple considerations as well. The weather for one, driver for another, other mods, etc.. You make your parts from titanium and iconel, which is lighter then stainless steel. Your gains could be from weight savings versus power gains.
As for your acceleration claims. Sorry but they are subject to multiple considerations as well. The weather for one, driver for another, other mods, etc.. You make your parts from titanium and iconel, which is lighter then stainless steel. Your gains could be from weight savings versus power gains.
We create a solution and ultimately it's the customers choice to purchase or not. Other vendors have great solutions also, we just do our thing albeit a little differently from others but isn't that where the fun is?
Highlighting the potential performance gains from weight savings once again demonstrates that there will always be a way to argue against the validity of figures presented, be it Dyno or Dragy or otherwise. With that said, I agree that our parts being lighter than any others on the market will yield real world performance advantages
JC
11-03-2021, 03:55 PM
#75
Rennlist Member
The Dragy stuff needs more data points...
Like JCR's car which is lighter and less rotating mass (lighter wheels and PCCB) was 0.2s quicker than my best valid Dragy run.(the list hasn't been updated in a while) But at the same time I was 0.2s quicker than JWW's Spyder which is stock aside from JCR headers and exhaust (stock OAP). That Spyder run was on an excessive/invalid down slope however, but the JCR car did another 7.5 on the same day there so we can count it for this exercise.
I know for a fact my car was 30 HP over stock in that config, measured on the most advanced and accurate dyno short of using an actual engine dyno.
You can't square these 3 results plus the dyno numbers. It simply won't line up. We need 20 cars doing similar runs then maybe we get a better idea.
All that said, there is no way a JCR rear section loses 10 HP all things being equal and measured properly. There will be a net gain, how much I don't know. In my personal experience with exhaust stuff, the gains will nearly always be larger than zero but smaller than what the manufacturer says it is.
Like JCR's car which is lighter and less rotating mass (lighter wheels and PCCB) was 0.2s quicker than my best valid Dragy run.(the list hasn't been updated in a while) But at the same time I was 0.2s quicker than JWW's Spyder which is stock aside from JCR headers and exhaust (stock OAP). That Spyder run was on an excessive/invalid down slope however, but the JCR car did another 7.5 on the same day there so we can count it for this exercise.
I know for a fact my car was 30 HP over stock in that config, measured on the most advanced and accurate dyno short of using an actual engine dyno.
You can't square these 3 results plus the dyno numbers. It simply won't line up. We need 20 cars doing similar runs then maybe we get a better idea.
All that said, there is no way a JCR rear section loses 10 HP all things being equal and measured properly. There will be a net gain, how much I don't know. In my personal experience with exhaust stuff, the gains will nearly always be larger than zero but smaller than what the manufacturer says it is.