Archimedes

The gearing issue is bench racing stupidity. Zero impact on driving experience and just as likely a benefit on track as a detriment. People love to debate specs on the Interwebs that have no real relevance in the real world. Shame some people will read it and makes a bad decision.

khooni

But it is not is it? The amount of people preferring (according to the poll) a manual over a race tested PDK (the clubsport 718 and 981) is astounding.
Maybe not everyone is a track rat and most just like to drive on roads and enjoy the car that way. Fine.

The PDK is a great gearbox but i also think that cars are so grippy now you really need to push on a circuit before you can get the chassis moving and if you don't do that maybe the manual will give you more satisfaction on a sunday drive. All valid reasons. But no, technically speaking the PDK is a marvel and the replacement cost is even reasonable.

tthellott T

my take is that PDK system always gets better in the next couple generations on Porsche sport car until all of them become fully electrification some day.. MT system already gets to its ultimate end state, especially the one on Porsche sport car.

ChrisFL

Lets not forget that GT3 redlines at 9K, GT4 at 8K so there is also "feel" of shorter ratios. Also the GT3 engine is much quicker to rev. In comparison, the GT4/ Spyder engine can "feel" sluggish. No one is denying that Porsche purposefully geared and made a whole new 4.0 flat 6 just to NOT compete with the GT3, but for 400hp, midengine car, its still a great machine. If you really need short ratios because you drive like a maniac all day long, there are a number of reputable shops who will regear it for you.

StormRune

Don't forget that the stats in this poll are skewed since Porsche didn't open up the PDK option for ordering until late 2020. (NOTE: See corrections thanks to TXShaggy in posts 52 and 53 below)Here's the press announcement from 9/8/2020.
https://www.porsche.com/internationa...l-de&id=606843

Given the time delay for production, these probably didn't start arriving in driver's hands until early 2021, maybe at best 8 months ago? Who was the earliest here to get one? The poll request wasn't limited to 4.0 drivers, so the votes may include drivers from as far back as the origin of the GT4. A more representative count would be for drivers that ordered cars anytime after the PDK became available as an option.

Adrift

In the interests of an academic discussion (not grinding an axe here), there are multiple aspects of long gearing. The big two are: 1) How fast you are going when you redline, and 2) how long it takes to get to redline. Many of the reviewer complaints, I believe, are with respect to 1); the concern being you never get to shift out of second while on public roadways (mountain / back road carving) unless you are going to speed significantly. That would seem to be true of a GT3 as much as gt4/spyder, and per the savagegeese reviewers, is true for many of the modern top performance and track oriented cars. I can see 2) being mitigated by more torque / faster reving engines / lower RLs, as the time-in-gear-before-RL is reduced, and thus the sensation of the gear being long reduced. (It is funny how, out of respect for the flagship car, I assume, reviewers don't touch on the GT3 long gearing (with respect to shifting in public road driving).

The 1) problem is with respect largely to RL driving, easily mitigated by short-shifting when not driving flat out.

My personal summary / expectation is I will wish the lower gears were a little shorter so I can row some more, but the issue won't be nearly drastic enough to cause me significant displeasure.

As for the poll results...the relevant aspect isn't how many people have manuals, but how many are (un)happy with them. The release date of the PDK is unrelated to that point, unless the proposition is that "they just don't understand what they don't have." As I said before, the pool of people that have spent significant time in both is probably small, and therefore not worth polling. People that have manuals like them; question answered.

TXshaggy

The PDK cars were coming off the line immediately on MY21 start. Pricing and order books were complete on 1st Qtr allocation release.

The Press release in early Sept was after production started.

My Spyder completed production 16 Sep, was in Houston on 16 Oct, and in my hands after EPA release month later. CARB states waited about a month longer.

Now at 8500 miles.

sin911

Personally been driving a manual sports car(s) for over a decade. In my personal opinion a manual transmission always adds a bit of engagement and drama to the drive. The GT4 has a fantastic shifter and the clutch is easily operable. The gearing is slightly long, even on canyons it would be great if it was slightly shorter. But the gearing is not far off from my previous 997.2 GT3 (the speed chart listed for 718 GT4 is almost identical to 997.2 GT3) and no one was complaining when it came out. So while it could be better, does not take away from the joy of driving at all. Unless living in a city with lots of traffic or only car, I’d take the 6 speed any day.

StormRune

Ah, very good information, thank you! I was assuming (you know how that goes) that the press release was tied to it showing up on orders.
So at this point we are looking at PDKs in driver's hands for approximately 11 months.

ChrisFL

Great points. Also, I forgot who said this but there was a speculation that manuals have to be geared a bit longer to pass ALL emissions testing (countries, states) and to increase MPG minimum standards across the model range. This would make sense depending on how they test emissions in each region. Remember the 992 GT3 manual wouldn't be available in California because of outdated emissions testing rules? I'm just glad Porsche, BMW (soon to phase out), and Lotus still make some of the best manual transmissions in the world. Enjoy them while you can

Archimedes

I don't think you understood my post. I wasn't saying that buying the PDK was a bad decision. I was saying that anyone who really wants the manual deciding not to get it based on the gearing nonsense would be making a bad decision. Either gearbox would be a great choice, depending on what each person desires out their car. But the gearing complaint is 100% Internet drivel.

Larry Cable

Larry Cable

great point! - I dont recall anyone complaining about the ratios on the 7.2 either!

TXshaggy

Seems like there is a focus on speed at redline in these discussions -- which is a component.

However, for me, the biggest advantage of a shorter gear-set is the better torque multiplication you get -- it just pulls harder gear - gear at all RPMs.

I don't remember anyone complaining about the C7 Z06 manual gearing with 1st at 66mph and 2nd around 100mph -- because.torque. No one cares/discusses that the GT3 has similar Redline/MPH points to the 718 manual because how the package gets you there.

Here is the gearing difference between the GT4 and GT3 manuals....you can see the GT3 is shorter, about 15% in 1st.

GT3 3.75 2.38 1.72 1.34 1.08 0.88 Final Drive 3.96

GT4 3.31 1.95 1.41 1.13 0.95 0.81 Final Drive 3.89

Bottomline, I think it's too simplistic to say both GT3/4 have similar 1st/2nd gear RL/MPHs -- therefore similar driving experiences.

Larry Cable

I think we may have "degenerated" into a debate about whether the 718 gearing is or is not tall/long and by how much... which is fine, but it is what it is, unless you want to drop your gearbox and a ton of $$$$'s along with it to change it.

I think the bottom line here is that we'd all like the gears to be a little bit shorter, but regardless, those of us that love a manual, love the GT4/Spyder 6MT, and those of us that love the PDK love the GT4/Spyder PDK ... its all down to personal choice ... for me I will *always* be a manual guy for as long as I have 2 feet, and manufacturers build and sell them...

one of the reasons I sold my 991.1 GTS Cabriolet and got the Spyder was that despite having a Cobb PDK tune, I just did not "connect" with the driving experience in the way that I do with a 6MT... (even with grandma's "flappy paddles") YMMV