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The 911 SHOULD be faster and more stable. It's got better suspension all around and has rear wheel steering and wider tires. Everything about it with regard to handling is better. I have no idea off the top of my head what the difference in downforce is between the two, but I suspect it's way back there with engine placement in how the two feel different.
I wouldn't use the "GT3rs is faster than GT4rs" as gospel.
This isn't completely apples to apples, because different days, different drivers, and different track conditions.
But here's video grabs of a 991.2 GT3rs and a GT4rs at Road America (high speed track) in which the lap times and top speeds are spitting distance of each other. Can you really tell the difference of 1-2 mph?
Going into Turn 1, 159mph vs 162mph
Going into Turn 5, 158mph vs 160mph
Going into Turn 12, 152mph vs 153mph
Thats pretty dang close in either direction. Would be really hard to perceive the difference in the speed deltas.
In this example, its the 4rs with the higher speeds
I find this baffling. I am a decent (not great, not terrible) driver, probably 2 seconds per minute on track behind a pro race car driver and the 3RS inspires so much more confidence in turns. The only way I can explain the minimal speed difference is that either you measure at the end of a long straight where the 3RS aero creates more drag. For the life of me, I cannot imagine how a 4RS achieves similar speeds in high speed turns. 4RS feels so much more nervous and ‘light’, while the 3RS feels like it’s on rails, given all the aero. Really impressive.
As for other commenters, perhaps you’re right and the speed delta in turns is also due to suspension, wheel size and rear wheel steering. I haven’t considered these factors, but yes, they will play a role.
Straight line acceleration I can’t tell the difference and don’t care much. Anything above 400 horse power is plenty anyway. If straight line acceleration is so much of a concern, buy a Turbo or a Tesla or a 2RS (which is very fast, but a different driving experience as it requires so much concentration to drive this on track, given the power).
I am not discrediting the 4RS. I think it’s a super fun car but I don’t think it’s the car I would want to track. I’d prefer a GT3or 3RS, be it 991 or 992. The 4RS is more of a noisy toy with tons of goodies. Less of a serious track car imo (I know I’ll get lots of flack for this comment). Yes, it’s fast but for me it’s just too nervous on track. I prefer the (perceived) stability of the GT3 platform. However, on mountain roads I suspect the order will be reversed and the 4RS should be a blast to drive. Easier to throw around corners, subjectively probably feels faster and the noise must be fun for a morning blast. SRS perhaps even more so. Can’t wait to get mine next summer and I’ll let you know.
I find this baffling. I am a decent driver, probably 3-4 seconds on lap behind a pro and the 3RS inspires so much more confidence on turn in. The only way I can explain the minimal speed difference is that you measure at the end of a long straight where the 3RS aero creates more drag for the life of me,
i cannot imagine how a 4RS achieves similar speeds in high speed turns. Car feels so much more nervous, while the 3RS feels like it’s on rails, given all the aero. Really impressive.
as for other commenters, perhaps you’re right and the speed delta in turns is also due to suspension, wheel size ans rear wheel steering.
Straight line acceleration I can’t tell the difference and don’t care much. Anything above 400 horse power is plenty anyway. If straight line acceleration is so much of a concern, buy a Turbo or a Tesla.
I am not discrediting the 4RS. I think it’s a super fun car but I don’t think it’s the car I would want to track. I’d prefer a GT3, be it 991 or 992. The 4RS is more of a noisy toy with tons of goodies. Less of a serious track car imo. Yes, it’s fast but for me it’s just too nervous on track. I prefer the stability of the 911 platform. However, on mountain roads I suspect the order will be reversed and the 4RS should be a blast to drive. Easier to throw around corners, subjectively probably feels faster and the noise must be fun for a morning blast. SRS perhaps even more so. Can’t wait to get mine next summer.
I was responding to the posts that stated the 4rs felt slower than the 3rs in acceleration. I picked the peak speeds because they are easy reference points. However you can pretty much pick out any point in the track videos above and see comparable speeds. If anything the cayman being slower in turns but then faster at the end of straightaways negates the idea the 4rs is slower than a 3rs in acceleration. At the end of the day I agree both are pretty quick pretty fast and pretty damn good on the track.
I wish I had a good excuse to pick up the SRS. The open air factor combined with the fun characteristics of the 4 RS And you have an instant classic.
I was responding to the posts that stated the 4rs felt slower than the 3rs in acceleration. I picked the peak speeds because they are easy reference points. However you can pretty much pick out any point in the track videos above and see comparable speeds. If anything the cayman being slower in turns but then faster at the end of straightaways negates the idea the 4rs is slower than a 3rs in acceleration. At the end of the day I agree both are pretty quick pretty fast and pretty damn good on the track.
I wish I had a good excuse to pick up the SRS. The open air factor combined with the fun characteristics of the 4 RS And you have an instant classic.
ok. Speed measurement points make sense. Perhaps at very low speeds the GT3 platform accelerates a
touch better due to weight distribution and tires, giving it better mechanical traction. Above 50 I’m/h to 100 I’m/h probably no difference and then 3RS probably slightly slower due to increased aero.
so, if it’s a track with lots of 90 degree slow corners, I see how a 4RS can get close to a 3 RS. A technical track with lots of medium to high speed corners ans few long straights, 3 RS will pull away.
...track with lots of medium to high speed corners ans few long straights, 3 RS will pull away.
You just described road America in the videos above....and that wasn't the case. Pretty high speed turns and long straights. Only one turn below 50mph. But one at 85+ and another at 100+. Rest are 60-80. And three straightaways that are between 140 and 160. But yeah takes a really good driver and the 4RS to match a 3RS. I'm not there!
You just described road America in the videos above....and that wasn't the case. Pretty high speed turns and long straights. Only one turn below 50mph. But one at 85+ and another at 100+. Rest are 60-80. And three straightaways that are between 140 and 160. But yeah takes a really good driver and the 4RS to match a 3RS. I'm not there!
just realised that’s a 991 3RS in the videos. My reference is 992 3RS. For 991 the video makes sense. It doesn’t have the 992 aero setup. Mystery solved.
just realised that’s a 991 3RS in the videos. My reference is 992 3RS. For 991 the video makes sense. It doesn’t have the 992 aero setup. Mystery solved.
991 3RS still has way more aero than a 4RS, plus multi link rear suspension, and more torque than 4RS
For the life of me, I cannot imagine how a 4RS achieves similar speeds in high speed turns. 4RS feels so much more nervous and ‘light’, while the 3RS feels like it’s on rails, given all the aero. Really impressive.
Any GT car with adjustable suspension/alignment can be made to feel as 'nervous' or 'stable' as you want. The 'on rails' feeling in any car has much less to do with the car's aero (downforce) than with how close to its grip limit it is being driven. No car that's straddling the grip limit (at 10/10) will feel like it's 'on rails' regardless of suspension setting or downforce. I speak this from experience with many race cars each with various aero and suspension/alignment settings.
Location: The way to hell is paved by good intentions “Wenn ich Purist höre...entsichere ich meinen Browning” "Myths are fuel for marketing (and nowadays for flippers too,,,)" time to time is not sufficient to be a saint, you must be also an Hero
except Auto Bild, Smokintires and Seenthroughglass for a quick test,
i wonder how many idiot youtubers , without any competence, have reviewed this car ?
except Auto Bild, Smokintires and Seenthroughglass for a quick test,
i wonder how many idiot youtubers , without any competence, have reviewed this car ?
I don't know how that guy has so many subscribers. I've tried multiple times to watch content of his on cars I'm interested in, and I can never last longer than 5 mins.
Any GT car with adjustable suspension/alignment can be made to feel as 'nervous' or 'stable' as you want. The 'on rails' feeling in any car has much less to do with the car's aero (downforce) than with how close to its grip limit it is being driven. No car that's straddling the grip limit (at 10/10) will feel like it's 'on rails' regardless of suspension setting or downforce. I speak this from experience with many race cars each with various aero and suspension/alignment settings.
yes, you are right on this. I presume having driven the cars back to back on the same track, I enter corners at similar speeds. 4RS feels like it’s hitting the limit, 3 like it’s pretty close and 3RS feels like there’s room to go faster. I should have been more precise.
I drove the cars during a Manthey event. I doubt the cars were setup to be nervous by then, so I assume the difference in feel really is down to the vehicles themselves.
Conversation got a bit sidetracked here, as my main goal was to day that I think the SRS will be a blast on roads, as (assuming it’s similar to a 4RS) it feels more playful than 911 GT products.
except Auto Bild, Smokintires and Seenthroughglass for a quick test,
i wonder how many idiot youtubers , without any competence, have reviewed this car ?
It will come soon.
We had here the "first tests". Press cars by country will arrive soon and will allow to get more detailed tests.
It's seems to me a "déjà vu" compared to what happen to the press release of the 718 spyder.
... and here in Europe, customers will be allowed to test the car later this month, october & november. (FR, BE at least)
09-06-2023, 07:09 PM
