Zhao

One thing I’d like to know is the friction co-efficients of PCCBs at cold temps. I can find enough data to guestimate with race pads with irons, and I know real life applications the friction of a race pad at below zero is still on par with a street pad and has no issues with braking when stone cold, but I can’t find any data for CCBs or PCCBs.

catdog2

I don't think it's the cold temp per se if it's dry weather they are fine.
It's combination of cold wet/icy wet rain/sleet... in the irons you get a little poor application initially which very quickly clears, that phenomenon can be alarmingly longer with ceramics. I had that happen once in my F430 driving on a cold wet day on a highway trying to take my usual exit from a higher speed than usual and i literally nearly missed the turn because of how poor braking was. Same phenomenon happened today in my Spyder more than once.

Likely very few drivers with PCCBs put their cars through cold/wet/icy conditions so may not experience above.

Reedy

Modern PCCB's are dramatically better than they were 10 years ago. No brakes when cold should really be a thing of the past.

Fdvigna

In the 992 GT3 forum they are saying PCCBs can not be ordered until at least June 2022. I’m guessing it will spill over here …. But that’s just a guess. 🤷 … l

Adrift

Can someone comment on the increased challenge to heel n toe with pccb due to increased initial grab? Heel n toe is definitely part of why I like manuals.

catdog2

Well as you are braking with the tip of your foot while blipping the throttle with the heel there is less travel on the PCCBs before they grab serious braking power as opposed to equivalent iron discs which usually have more brake pedal travel which makes it difficult to modulate the braking effort as you are hitting throttle to gets revs up for lower gear.

With practice you can compensate for this largely and if you use auto blip then you can be less accurate with your rev matching even as you heel and toe.

Not a big deal overall, small price to pay given advantages of PCCBs, only shortcoming I see (aside extensive heavy track use) is poor cold/wet/ice performance on initial bite when cold.

Zhao

I wouldn't worry about heel and toeing either. Initial thoughts when I first drove mine were the GT4 was impossible to heel and toe on the street with only partial brake pressure due to pedal placement. By the time I hit 1000km I had no problem heel and toeing with almost no brake pressure. I adapted pretty quick to finding a position it worked.

I drive a lot of different cars on the track and even when the brake pedal is setup basically to be an on/off switch (dunno why people love that feel so much) it's fairly easy to adapt so I would say no matter how crazy you feel the initial bite is compared to what you were used to before you should be able to adapt to it without problem.

VVG

As previously mentioned, cold alone is fine (to a point), but cold and wet together is a problem for initial bite. As was also pointed out, I doubt these cars are being driven much when it is both cold and wet. Once you know how the brakes behave, however, it is easy to compensate by an initial "pre-application" to clear and warm the surface, and then a second braking application. You also don't have to keep doing this unless you are going long periods without brake application.

The biggest benefit, IMO, of PCCB is the improvement in RIDE comfort due to the effect of the lower unsprung weight.

Hanjong Ko

My GT4 allocation was for April build but was informed that PCCB is not available. I asked to for July+ allocation.

catdog2

Another snowstorm and another utter crappy braking bordering on dangerous from my PCCB shod 718 Spyder.

These things are absolute garbage in wet/snowy/icy conditions...

Driving on snowy highway and backroads today, very very long distances and poor brake performance even though spent a lot of time trying to get heat into them in between. Absolutely sub-par and close to dangerous in ice/snow/wet conditions compared to irons and i love them in dry conditions otherwise.

Anyone considering ordering them for a daily driver or one driven in cold/snowy/icy weather be aware of this...

StormRune

Not saying it isn't the brakes, but curious as to what tires you have and how you are sure which one it is. Heck, I avoid driving in the rain altogether with the Sport Cup 2s so I have no experience in wet conditions beyond sprinkles.

Westcoast

Never had a problem in cold conditions, or even the usual wet conditions, I have never driven these in the snow but have in sub-zero temperatures... The only 'wet' issue I ever had was driving through deep standing water, temporary reduction in braking until the discs dried.

Personally I don't see how ice and snow on the road is a problem with PCCB's, can you describe how this factored in?

SpyderSenseOC

Wow. I heard that Spyders and GT4's were not affected but it seems we're all hearing different things. My Spyder is going into production 2-25 and so far so good. I must have just made it.

catdog2

I have all weather Bridgestone RE980A/S+ and it has nothing to do with tire traction, this is initial bite of pads to discs...

the brakes are perfect in dry conditions

It's the snow and ice cold slush wet affecting the surface of the discs. Even with occasional braking to keep discs warm and dry still poor performance compared to irons in similar conditions. It's a 2020 so not affected by the newer lower copper pad issue

Westcoast

Interesting, I too have RE980AS tires on my Spyder... we get a lot of rain here and I have been out in it and braking was awesome.

Perhaps the combination of near freezing temps and moisture?