Track day prep recommendations
01-30-2021, 08:25 PM
#31
Advanced
Thread Starter
Well another similarity for us Ski. My son has been running a well massaged Golf R since high school. He has even knocked off a few GT3s and Corvettes with it. VW makes great affordable products. Now that he has a great job and is off the payroll, he has moved up to my Cayman S with the arrival of my GT4 PDK. Nice to keep a great Porsche in the family.
Tay, the 265/35-19 and 305/30-19 set up is perfect. That is what I plan on running. Both tires are 26.3 inches tall. The PASM will be happy, and you just shortened the gearing of your car by about 2.5%. A good thing for a car that is geared on the tall side of the spectrum.
01-30-2021, 10:37 PM
#32
Rennlist Member
We ran 265/35R19 front, 285/35R19 rear for the 981 GT4 because the balance was good with these sizes. You have to be careful comparing tire sizes between manufacturers; they actual measurements differ, so one manufacturer's 285/35R19 probably won't be the same as another manufacturer's 285/35R19. So when looking at whether a tire will fit, I look at the specs tables at Tire Rack, and I also calculate the projected section width based on the measured rim size in the spec table and the rim width that I'm using. The rule of thumb is for every 1/2" difference in rim size, you get a corresponding 2/10" difference in section width (or 5.08mm). There is a good write-up on this here. I apologize if you already know this, but it helps to set a baseline understanding for the rest:
When you get into slicks, and particular "real" racing slicks like Pirelli DH, Yokomaha ADVAN A005, etc, the sizes listed are even less relatable to the actual sizes, so it's really important to find that spec table on section width, diameter, etc. Another thing to consider is that you may alter the rake of the car if you end up with a smaller diameter, and with all the aero work Porsche has done with the 982 GT4, I wouldn't want to arbitrarily change that. Of course you can adjust the ride height front/rear to the tire you select.
So, for the Forgeline wheels that we have (size/offset listed in first post), I know that the RE71R 265/285 combo works in terms of clearance inside and out. That said, we're pretty close on the outside rears and we might get some rubbing in a heavy compression zone (like T7 at Ridge Motorsports Park). I say "might" because we definitely did get some minor rubbing on the 981; I won't know with the 982 until our first event at the Ridge in March. The R888Rs are almost identical in size to the RE71Rs, and have a similar shoulder profile, so 265/285 R888Rs should definitely work for us. R7s in 265/35R19 front, 295/30R19 should also work although I haven't tried these. The rears are about 2.5 mm wider, so that should be OK, but I would also look at how square the shoulder is. Note that we would be losing rake in this scenario; with the RE71Rs (our baseline and we set our alignment using these), the front tires are 0.5" (12.7mm) smaller in diameter than the rears, while with the R7s, the rears are actually 0.1" (2.54 mm) smaller in diameter than the fronts. I believe the 295/35R19s would actually be too tall and would cause rubbing issues.
I would be concerned about about going to R888R 295/30R19s in the rear, because with the 10.5" rear rims we have, the section width would be 7.6mm wider. If you have smaller offset numbers than we do, maybe it will work for you. Probably not for us. I do think the 982 would be happier with a wider tire in the rear with that extra grunt that it has, but the trick is finding the right offset. There isn't much room to work with on a 19" rim because of where the rear toe link connects to the rear wheel hub carrier. BTW, I don't think Toyo make the R888R in 295/35R19; at least Tire Rack doesn't list them.
When you get into slicks, and particular "real" racing slicks like Pirelli DH, Yokomaha ADVAN A005, etc, the sizes listed are even less relatable to the actual sizes, so it's really important to find that spec table on section width, diameter, etc. Another thing to consider is that you may alter the rake of the car if you end up with a smaller diameter, and with all the aero work Porsche has done with the 982 GT4, I wouldn't want to arbitrarily change that. Of course you can adjust the ride height front/rear to the tire you select.
So, for the Forgeline wheels that we have (size/offset listed in first post), I know that the RE71R 265/285 combo works in terms of clearance inside and out. That said, we're pretty close on the outside rears and we might get some rubbing in a heavy compression zone (like T7 at Ridge Motorsports Park). I say "might" because we definitely did get some minor rubbing on the 981; I won't know with the 982 until our first event at the Ridge in March. The R888Rs are almost identical in size to the RE71Rs, and have a similar shoulder profile, so 265/285 R888Rs should definitely work for us. R7s in 265/35R19 front, 295/30R19 should also work although I haven't tried these. The rears are about 2.5 mm wider, so that should be OK, but I would also look at how square the shoulder is. Note that we would be losing rake in this scenario; with the RE71Rs (our baseline and we set our alignment using these), the front tires are 0.5" (12.7mm) smaller in diameter than the rears, while with the R7s, the rears are actually 0.1" (2.54 mm) smaller in diameter than the fronts. I believe the 295/35R19s would actually be too tall and would cause rubbing issues.
I would be concerned about about going to R888R 295/30R19s in the rear, because with the 10.5" rear rims we have, the section width would be 7.6mm wider. If you have smaller offset numbers than we do, maybe it will work for you. Probably not for us. I do think the 982 would be happier with a wider tire in the rear with that extra grunt that it has, but the trick is finding the right offset. There isn't much room to work with on a 19" rim because of where the rear toe link connects to the rear wheel hub carrier. BTW, I don't think Toyo make the R888R in 295/35R19; at least Tire Rack doesn't list them.
You're right, the R888R only comes in a 285/35/19 or 295/30/19, but the R7 does come in 295/35/19. Maybe that is the way to go, but its definitely worth looking at the actual specs of the tires.
I would like to run a 19x11 et45 in the rear with the TPC Racing offset toe links.
01-31-2021, 01:10 AM
#33
Drifting
I'd also agree with lovestoturn that if you abuse them off the bat they will not treat you well. I think they have a sweet spot on the track that if you keep them in that window, they'll be great forever, but outside of it, they will cause problems. I completely killed a set this year by bad driving/over driving them starting on the warmup lap and continued to over drive them over the session. Melted them/caused them to delaminate. Under driving them causes problems too I would say; had a co driver in an endurance race that wasn't driving them hard enough to clean them and they built up all kinds of crazy rubber I've never seen before on a street tire. That same set of tires the driver before and after our least experienced driver both set consistent lap times for their 2 hour stints.
01-31-2021, 02:35 AM
#34
Advanced
Thread Starter
Count me in that group as well for RE71Rs being consistent. I found every generation of bridgestone RE's back to RE01's very consistent over the life of the tire as well as the session compared to other track focused street tires. I'm a big bridgestone fan because of them and am a little sad I can't buy there race tires as tehy don't sell them here.
I'd also agree with lovestoturn that if you abuse them off the bat they will not treat you well. I think they have a sweet spot on the track that if you keep them in that window, they'll be great forever, but outside of it, they will cause problems. I completely killed a set this year by bad driving/over driving them starting on the warmup lap and continued to over drive them over the session. Melted them/caused them to delaminate. Under driving them causes problems too I would say; had a co driver in an endurance race that wasn't driving them hard enough to clean them and they built up all kinds of crazy rubber I've never seen before on a street tire. That same set of tires the driver before and after our least experienced driver both set consistent lap times for their 2 hour stints.
I'd also agree with lovestoturn that if you abuse them off the bat they will not treat you well. I think they have a sweet spot on the track that if you keep them in that window, they'll be great forever, but outside of it, they will cause problems. I completely killed a set this year by bad driving/over driving them starting on the warmup lap and continued to over drive them over the session. Melted them/caused them to delaminate. Under driving them causes problems too I would say; had a co driver in an endurance race that wasn't driving them hard enough to clean them and they built up all kinds of crazy rubber I've never seen before on a street tire. That same set of tires the driver before and after our least experienced driver both set consistent lap times for their 2 hour stints.
01-31-2021, 09:23 AM
#35
Thanks for all this ski35off.
You're right, the R888R only comes in a 285/35/19 or 295/30/19, but the R7 does come in 295/35/19. Maybe that is the way to go, but its definitely worth looking at the actual specs of the tires.
I would like to run a 19x11 et45 in the rear with the TPC Racing offset toe links.
You're right, the R888R only comes in a 285/35/19 or 295/30/19, but the R7 does come in 295/35/19. Maybe that is the way to go, but its definitely worth looking at the actual specs of the tires.
I would like to run a 19x11 et45 in the rear with the TPC Racing offset toe links.
01-31-2021, 09:24 AM
#36
Count me in that group as well for RE71Rs being consistent. I found every generation of bridgestone RE's back to RE01's very consistent over the life of the tire as well as the session compared to other track focused street tires. I'm a big bridgestone fan because of them and am a little sad I can't buy there race tires as tehy don't sell them here.
I'd also agree with lovestoturn that if you abuse them off the bat they will not treat you well. I think they have a sweet spot on the track that if you keep them in that window, they'll be great forever, but outside of it, they will cause problems. I completely killed a set this year by bad driving/over driving them starting on the warmup lap and continued to over drive them over the session. Melted them/caused them to delaminate. Under driving them causes problems too I would say; had a co driver in an endurance race that wasn't driving them hard enough to clean them and they built up all kinds of crazy rubber I've never seen before on a street tire. That same set of tires the driver before and after our least experienced driver both set consistent lap times for their 2 hour stints.
I'd also agree with lovestoturn that if you abuse them off the bat they will not treat you well. I think they have a sweet spot on the track that if you keep them in that window, they'll be great forever, but outside of it, they will cause problems. I completely killed a set this year by bad driving/over driving them starting on the warmup lap and continued to over drive them over the session. Melted them/caused them to delaminate. Under driving them causes problems too I would say; had a co driver in an endurance race that wasn't driving them hard enough to clean them and they built up all kinds of crazy rubber I've never seen before on a street tire. That same set of tires the driver before and after our least experienced driver both set consistent lap times for their 2 hour stints.
01-31-2021, 09:29 AM
#37
Nice! My older son is selling his Mk 6 GTI (also nicely massaged), and just picked up a 2003 BMW 330Ci so he can build it into a Spec E46 race car. My younger son has been borrowing our BRZ so he can keep his Mk7 GTI as a nice daily driver.
What wheel sizes / offsets are you using? I don't know how I could possibly stuff 305s into the rear of our car, at least with the current wheels we have, but would love to if I could.
What wheel sizes / offsets are you using? I don't know how I could possibly stuff 305s into the rear of our car, at least with the current wheels we have, but would love to if I could.
The stock MPSC2 and RE71R are exactly 11.9" section width....the Pirellis are a tad over 12". But I have hear people stuffing tires up to 12.5" like the Hoosier R7 in 315/30-19
One tire that's really picking my curiosity is the Nankang AR1.....and they come in pretty good sizes for the GT4: 265/35-19 & 305/30-19
01-31-2021, 12:48 PM
#38
Three Wheelin'
Nice! My older son is selling his Mk 6 GTI (also nicely massaged), and just picked up a 2003 BMW 330Ci so he can build it into a Spec E46 race car. My younger son has been borrowing our BRZ so he can keep his Mk7 GTI as a nice daily driver.
Isn't it wonderful to be able to hand the keys to your car to your son and know that they can go out and run laps similar to yours and bring it home in one piece. We picked that car up together in Europe in 2013, and drove it 2,000 miles through Germany, Italy, Switzerland, and France. He was 17 at the time and did his share of the driving.
What wheel sizes / offsets are you using? I don't know how I could possibly stuff 305s into the rear of our car, at least with the current wheels we have, but would love to if I could.
Isn't it wonderful to be able to hand the keys to your car to your son and know that they can go out and run laps similar to yours and bring it home in one piece. We picked that car up together in Europe in 2013, and drove it 2,000 miles through Germany, Italy, Switzerland, and France. He was 17 at the time and did his share of the driving.
What wheel sizes / offsets are you using? I don't know how I could possibly stuff 305s into the rear of our car, at least with the current wheels we have, but would love to if I could.
I have Forgeline VX1Rs on order 9x19 et50 and 11x19 et48. Will likely be running -2.5 camber in the rear and will add a 3mm spacer if I have issues. That gives me options for a rear et of 48 or 45. Others have run as low as 44-46 on the rear but BGB recommended these specs. We shall what happens. I plan on shaving the TPC toe links down a bit. Looking at trying some Trofeo Rs since they are so light and have a wide window for slip angle so I here. For a 265/305 set they only weigh 100 vs 118 lbs for the RE-71Rs.
01-31-2021, 01:26 PM
#39
As I was writing this up to answer some questions on a PM from an individual, I realized that I've done this at least several times now, so instead I'm making this a post that I can point people to. This applies to both the 981 and 982 GT4s as we've owned both. I hope it's helpful 
Disclaimer: The GT4 is my wife's track car (she's experienced and fast, 30-40 track days/year, and she instructs at a number of local clubs, PCA National certified instructor, MSF-II certified instructor). I drive a 981 GT4 Clubsport at HPDEs, but I do try to drive her car every so often. Our experiences with tires may differ from yours due to experience level, driving style, track surface, temperature, etc. - so take with a grain of salt. YMMV.
Tires: we use Bridgestone RE71Rs on our GT4, 265/35-19 front, 285/35-19 rear. They seem to last anywhere from 25-35 sessions/heat cycles, depending track temperature and how abrasive the track surface is. The thing I like about these tires is that they are consistent throughout a session (I typically get my best times at the end of a session) as well as throughout their life. We run them until we cord them – they don’t tend to heat cycle out (but it does happen). We run them at 33 PSI front, 34-35 PSI rear hot.
Why not Hoosier R7s? In my experience, R7s are great for about 8 heat cycles, then "OK" for about 8 heat cycles, then they fall off a cliff. I'd say the RE71R's grip level is typically above the middle 8 heat cycles, so on average they're way better.
You'd be better off going with "real" racing slicks, like Pirelli take-offs, which you can typically find for about $125/ea. Yes, sometimes you'll end up with a set that isn't very good, but most of the time you're way ahead on the performance/price curve. On the Clubsport I run Pirelli DH and Yokohama ADVAN A005 (medium A60 front, hard A80 rear) take-offs for slicks, Continental EC-WET for rains (but these are no longer available).
That said, you need to be aware that running slicks means more wear and tear on the car. The "Driving on the race circuit" booklet you get with your manual set specifically says "Do not use slick tires" on page 3. There is evidence that this is a real warning; the service lives and maintenance intervals listed in the technical manual for the Clubsport lists the following:
Note, with the amount of camber we ended up running up front, if I had to do it all over again I would probably change the offset on the front wheels to +45 to push them out 9 mm. I would also tuck the rear in a few mm, say go to +46 offset to provide more rear fender clearance. That said, the specs I outlined above are tried and proven.
Suspension: all of these tires like a lot of camber to wear properly. We run the following nominal suspension:
Front:
Disclaimer: The GT4 is my wife's track car (she's experienced and fast, 30-40 track days/year, and she instructs at a number of local clubs, PCA National certified instructor, MSF-II certified instructor). I drive a 981 GT4 Clubsport at HPDEs, but I do try to drive her car every so often. Our experiences with tires may differ from yours due to experience level, driving style, track surface, temperature, etc. - so take with a grain of salt. YMMV.
Tires: we use Bridgestone RE71Rs on our GT4, 265/35-19 front, 285/35-19 rear. They seem to last anywhere from 25-35 sessions/heat cycles, depending track temperature and how abrasive the track surface is. The thing I like about these tires is that they are consistent throughout a session (I typically get my best times at the end of a session) as well as throughout their life. We run them until we cord them – they don’t tend to heat cycle out (but it does happen). We run them at 33 PSI front, 34-35 PSI rear hot.
Why not Hoosier R7s? In my experience, R7s are great for about 8 heat cycles, then "OK" for about 8 heat cycles, then they fall off a cliff. I'd say the RE71R's grip level is typically above the middle 8 heat cycles, so on average they're way better.
You'd be better off going with "real" racing slicks, like Pirelli take-offs, which you can typically find for about $125/ea. Yes, sometimes you'll end up with a set that isn't very good, but most of the time you're way ahead on the performance/price curve. On the Clubsport I run Pirelli DH and Yokohama ADVAN A005 (medium A60 front, hard A80 rear) take-offs for slicks, Continental EC-WET for rains (but these are no longer available).
That said, you need to be aware that running slicks means more wear and tear on the car. The "Driving on the race circuit" booklet you get with your manual set specifically says "Do not use slick tires" on page 3. There is evidence that this is a real warning; the service lives and maintenance intervals listed in the technical manual for the Clubsport lists the following:
- Drive shafts: change every 5000 km
- Crossbeam and braces: change every 7000 km (this is essentially the cast aluminum subframe under the transaxle)
- Wheel hubs: change every 10,000 km
- Rear hub carriers: change every 10,000 km
- Front: 19x9”, 5x130 bolt pattern, +54 offset, 71.5 mm wheel bore
- Rear: 19x10.5, 5x130 bolt pattern, +43 offset, 71.5 mm wheel bore
Note, with the amount of camber we ended up running up front, if I had to do it all over again I would probably change the offset on the front wheels to +45 to push them out 9 mm. I would also tuck the rear in a few mm, say go to +46 offset to provide more rear fender clearance. That said, the specs I outlined above are tried and proven.
Suspension: all of these tires like a lot of camber to wear properly. We run the following nominal suspension:
- Front: -3.9 degrees camber, 10.0 degrees caster (factory spec), 0 to 0.1 degrees toe out each side
- Rear: -2.7 degrees camber, 0.1 degrees toe in each side
- Ride height: as low as you can go without causing a major headache for driving it on the street or loading on a trailer. Because the front splitter on the 982 extends much farther than the 981, the ride height is about 10 mm higher than before.
- The car is corner balanced but because of all the aero on the new GT4, we prioritized making sure that we kept the rake of the OEM setup. Measuring at the jack points (yes I know this is not where you're supposed to measure), the rear jack points were 11 mm higher than the front.
Front:
- Camber plates (race design)
- Thrust Arm Bushing (might be optional – depends on how much caster gets moved away from ideal when dialing in camber) + spacers for thrust arm
- Monoball end (longer LCAMBCUP ones needed for the increased camber)
- Front tie rod (longer 991.008.CLAMP.LONG needed for increased camber)
- Front drop links (for adjustable zero pre-load on the anti-roll bar)
- Toe control arm (needed for increased camber) + toe link locking plate (optional; removes the eccentric bolt which can come loose)
- Rear drop links (for adjustable zero pre-load on the anti-roll bar)
- Non-cup monoball lower control arm ends (optional, not needed to get to the camber spec but removes the slop of the OEM bushing)
- Spring upgrade kit (optional, but we found that they helped with tire wear and I thought the stock springs were a bit soft on track)
- Cobalt Friction now has brake pads for the GT4 (and GT3) (I’ve been working with them to develop). The XR2 (front) and XR3 (rear) compounds are fantastic.
- I would recommend replacing the OEM rotors when they’re done with AP Racing rotors. They last much longer, are cheaper than OEM, have better feel, and actually help your brake pads last longer since they’re harder.
- Front rotors – replacement rings are $399 each
- Rear rotors – replacement rings are $399 each
- BTW I have an extra set of front hats that I'm willing to sell. PM me if you're interested.
- Front: AP Racing by Essex Radi-CAL Competition Brake Kit (Front 9661/394mm)- Porsche 981/718 GT4, Cobalt Friction CRB-XR2-AP19-18.0MM pads
- Rear: AP Racing by Essex Radi-CAL Competition Brake Kit (Rear CP9449/380mm)- Porsche 981/718 GT4, Cobalt Friction CRB-XR3-AP2-16.5MM pads
- Wheel stud conversion kit
- If you're keeping the OEM brake kit, get these.
- Brake caliper stud kit (62 mm front, 85 mm rear)
- Brake line bracket stud kit
- Rollbar: CMS or Cantrell; there are other options
- If the car you purchased has the lightweight bucket (LWB) seats:
- Sub strap mount: CMS (as part of the roll bar order) or Cantrell
- Harnesses: Schroth Profi 2x2 Porsche GT4 6 point (the lap belts attach to the LWB)
- The passenger side LWB seat will require modification for the sub-strap; instructions are in the 981 GT4 forum somewhere
- Don’t forget to get a forward head and neck restraint like HANS, Simpson Hybrid S, or Necksgen
now the RE’s are not produced anymore are you going to try the Falken 660’s. Some who have ran them are saying equal or better ( dry ) grip and handles heat better.
thanks for the write up, very informative and very appreciative!!
01-31-2021, 01:41 PM
#41
Racer
01-31-2021, 02:44 PM
#42
Drifting
Isn't it wonderful to be able to hand the keys to your car to your son and know that they can go out and run laps similar to yours and bring it home in one piece. We picked that car up together in Europe in 2013, and drove it 2,000 miles through Germany, Italy, Switzerland, and France. He was 17 at the time and did his share of the driving.
I have Forgeline VX1Rs on order 9x19 et50 and 11x19 et48. Will likely be running -2.5 camber in the rear and will add a 3mm spacer if I have issues. That gives me options for a rear et of 48 or 45. Others have run as low as 44-46 on the rear but BGB recommended these specs. We shall what happens. I plan on shaving the TPC toe links down a bit. Looking at trying some Trofeo Rs since they are so light and have a wide window for slip angle so I here. For a 265/305 set they only weigh 100 vs 118 lbs for the RE-71Rs.
I have Forgeline VX1Rs on order 9x19 et50 and 11x19 et48. Will likely be running -2.5 camber in the rear and will add a 3mm spacer if I have issues. That gives me options for a rear et of 48 or 45. Others have run as low as 44-46 on the rear but BGB recommended these specs. We shall what happens. I plan on shaving the TPC toe links down a bit. Looking at trying some Trofeo Rs since they are so light and have a wide window for slip angle so I here. For a 265/305 set they only weigh 100 vs 118 lbs for the RE-71Rs.
01-31-2021, 03:13 PM
#43
Three Wheelin'
While on the subject of tire performance windows. There are two main factors in that performance of a tire at the track....both pressure and heat. Everyone talks about the pressure but heat is what really makes your tires greasy at the end of an HPDE session. When these two factors are in alignment though, you have maximum grip. When they are off, then not so good. That is why it is important to slowly bring the tires up to temp and pressure together. Anyone who can drive at a high level will see a pressure rise of up to 10 pounds from cold to hot during a 25-30 minute track session. That means you have to go out with the tires in the 25-28 psi range so that they can come up to about 32-34 psi for optimumal performance. With that little air in the tires in the beginning, one can not possible drive the car that hard early on, or you will prematurely roll off the outer edge of your tires. And with no heat in the tires yet, not so much grip either. So it takes a few laps for the temp and pressure to come up together. I like to slowly increase my speed on each lap, focusing on a precise line and hitting each apex early on. Learn the fine details of your track here. Then by about the 4th lap, the tires are pretty happy, and I run some truly hot laps. After a few of those, then let things cool off for a bit, and then do a few more hot laps. The timing of all this is of course dependent on traffic. These will likely be the quickest laps of your session. Invariably if you are pushing hard enough, things will get a little greasy by the end of a session. At that point, I find it helpful to use the increased slip angle afforded by the well warmed and less grippy tires to have some fun and explore the limits of the car at a safer speed. You are going slower anyway, aren't too likely to set your best lap time, so why not have some fun and learn how to move your car around more in the corners.
By living around and just over the edge of maximal grip (think Ross Bently's graphs) for extended periods of time, you will gain increased skills on how to balance the car in any situation. By leaving yourself a few extra feet for track out, you can apply a little more throttle earlier, loosen up the car, and get a nice light four wheel drift going. You can modulate the throttle and steering to control the car's attitude and have that extra space coming off the corner for any small errors in judgement. The more comfortable you feel, the closer you can then get to the track out rumble strip. Once you are feeling comfortable coming off the apexes like that, then you can pitch it into the turn a little harder under trail braking to loosen the car up a bit more upon corner entry. Doesn't matter if you miss the apex here or there cause you should have plenty of room to recover. We are looking for some early slip angle going into the corner. Once you get your braking point and timing down here, then just connect the dots for corner entry and corner exit for the complete turn. Maybe easier said than done, but with practice, you will eventually prevail. This is sort of like learning to ski in the powder vs hard pack snow. Once floating in the snow or across the surface of the track, another dimension is added to the sport. Again this is done much more easily when your tires are kinda done at the end of the session, your lap times are off, and it is a much safer time to experiment with new skills. This is not going to work so well at the beginning of the session on cold under inflated rubber. Tires don't usually drive the same throughout the entire session, so this is one way to take advantage of their evolving characteristics. Practice your line first, go all in for the lap time, and then practice your skills to finish off the session. Also, when tires are at the end of their heat cycles, they take longer to warm up, but once there, are a lot of fun to practice you car control skills with various slip angles at slower safer speeds. So maybe you leave those older tires on for another day or two and concentrate on practicing and improving your skills rather than just running for a lap times. Then when you get that new set of tires, you will be faster than ever.
Having said all that, sometimes a certain car or group of cars comes along in the right situation, and then the red mist comes over you, and all hell breaks loose. At that point, drive the wheels off your car, and have fun for as long as you can. One time a few years ago I hooked with a couple of 911s at COTA on Sunday in the final extended session about 4:30pm. We all drove as hard as we could, flip flopped places, ripped through traffic as a single unit, and were gently sliding our cars the whole time. We pushed each other, respected the other's line, stayed safe, and worked together as a team of three. We were all counter steering in most every corner and probably a little closer than we should have been, but it was some of the most fun I have ever had driving with others on the track. It lasted for about 8 laps or 20 minutes. Fortunately we all had similar skills, our tires were ready to go, and they all faded at about the same rate together. Needles to say, meeting them afterward, sharing a beer, and discussing our recent exploits was great fun.
Sorry for the long post, but it is a relaxing Sunday morning. All this talk about how to make our cars better, but not much is ever said of how to improve our driving skills. Hope this might help a few people next time they are at the track.
By living around and just over the edge of maximal grip (think Ross Bently's graphs) for extended periods of time, you will gain increased skills on how to balance the car in any situation. By leaving yourself a few extra feet for track out, you can apply a little more throttle earlier, loosen up the car, and get a nice light four wheel drift going. You can modulate the throttle and steering to control the car's attitude and have that extra space coming off the corner for any small errors in judgement. The more comfortable you feel, the closer you can then get to the track out rumble strip. Once you are feeling comfortable coming off the apexes like that, then you can pitch it into the turn a little harder under trail braking to loosen the car up a bit more upon corner entry. Doesn't matter if you miss the apex here or there cause you should have plenty of room to recover. We are looking for some early slip angle going into the corner. Once you get your braking point and timing down here, then just connect the dots for corner entry and corner exit for the complete turn. Maybe easier said than done, but with practice, you will eventually prevail. This is sort of like learning to ski in the powder vs hard pack snow. Once floating in the snow or across the surface of the track, another dimension is added to the sport. Again this is done much more easily when your tires are kinda done at the end of the session, your lap times are off, and it is a much safer time to experiment with new skills. This is not going to work so well at the beginning of the session on cold under inflated rubber. Tires don't usually drive the same throughout the entire session, so this is one way to take advantage of their evolving characteristics. Practice your line first, go all in for the lap time, and then practice your skills to finish off the session. Also, when tires are at the end of their heat cycles, they take longer to warm up, but once there, are a lot of fun to practice you car control skills with various slip angles at slower safer speeds. So maybe you leave those older tires on for another day or two and concentrate on practicing and improving your skills rather than just running for a lap times. Then when you get that new set of tires, you will be faster than ever.
Having said all that, sometimes a certain car or group of cars comes along in the right situation, and then the red mist comes over you, and all hell breaks loose. At that point, drive the wheels off your car, and have fun for as long as you can. One time a few years ago I hooked with a couple of 911s at COTA on Sunday in the final extended session about 4:30pm. We all drove as hard as we could, flip flopped places, ripped through traffic as a single unit, and were gently sliding our cars the whole time. We pushed each other, respected the other's line, stayed safe, and worked together as a team of three. We were all counter steering in most every corner and probably a little closer than we should have been, but it was some of the most fun I have ever had driving with others on the track. It lasted for about 8 laps or 20 minutes. Fortunately we all had similar skills, our tires were ready to go, and they all faded at about the same rate together. Needles to say, meeting them afterward, sharing a beer, and discussing our recent exploits was great fun.
Sorry for the long post, but it is a relaxing Sunday morning. All this talk about how to make our cars better, but not much is ever said of how to improve our driving skills. Hope this might help a few people next time they are at the track.
Last edited by lovetoturn; 01-31-2021 at 03:24 PM.
01-31-2021, 03:20 PM
#44
Three Wheelin'
Thanks Zhao. Yes, I am very lucky to have such a son, and driving is one of our common bonds. Track weekends and trips to Austin for COTA have all been memorable events. He was even able to become a PCA instructor as well at the age of 23. Good luck with your daughter.
The following users liked this post:
mr965 (01-31-2021)