rzspyder

Do you guys have experience with ceramic coating instead of PPF? I’m looking for something that keeps the same paint shine for my Spyder even if it means less protection compared to PPF. It is the first time I’m hearing about ceramic coating and I’m wondering if I will regret doing it because according to this article it is semi-permanent and hard to come off.

https://avalonking.com/blog/the-trut...amic-coatings/

wcw67

First question to ask is what is your primary purpose? Protect the paint or make it easier to clean? Protect the paint = PPF. Easier to clean/deep lustrous look = ceramic coat. However, you can do PPF and ceramic coat on top of it.

rzspyder

My goal is to achieve a deep lustrous look. If ceramic coat is applied on top of PPF, will it make the paint shine? One concern with PPF I have is that it may become yellowish or reduce the paint’s shine.

iliveoncaffiene

Yellowing is a thing of the past with today's PPF (anything that's not bargain-basement stuff, at least).
If you don't mind occasional nicks into the paint, then you may save $$ without getting PPF. However, you can't apply PPF on top of ceramic coat if you change your mind (without a lot of work at least).
PPF itself has a plenty deep look to it in my opinion (my car has it), but I don't have the most discerning eye when it comes to that.

BudgetPlan1

After mucking about with coatings for the past few years and having a car completely wrapped in PPF in 2019, some thoughts on living with both:

Quartz/Glass/Ceramic Coatings

While these are often marketed as ‘scratch resistant’, with spiffy phrases like “Diamond-Infused 10h Hardness” it’s largely irrelevant. While the coating you put on your paint may indeed be technically ‘harder’ than your clear coat the reality is that it’s such an infinitesimal difference as to be practically meaningless. The hardest coating in all the kingdom will still be measurably softer than your fingernail.

Some more info from professionals regarding coatings and scratch resistance:
- Are ceramic coatings scratch-proof?:

What coatings do offer is great resistance to environmental contamination and excellent self-cleaning characteristics. While they are no silver bullet, “Never gonna wash my car again” solution, the best of them can indeed keep your car cleaner with less effort. And less effort means less touching of the paint which means less chance for marking up that paint. Additionally, they can provide some protection from ‘environmental incidents’ (aka ‘Bird Bombs’) which could otherwise permanently etch the surface.

Additionally, while coatings are not scratch proof, there are a few coatings that offer some ‘limited self-healing’ characteristics. Kamikaze Zipang is one that I have on 2 of our cars. Again, it’s very important to read carefully and understand the limitations of such technology. I’ve tried a bunch of coatings over the past 3 years, looking for one that offered the best protection and self-cleaning characteristics I could find, mostly with black paint in mind. Kamikaze was the best suited to my needs/desires in that area. From the US Vendors Website:

Quote:
"With Zipang Coat, the chemistry provides even higher levels of gloss and brilliance than their ISM / ISM Pro coatings, and it offers semi self-healing characteristics, meaning that the appearance of small swirls or imperfections in the coating surface will reduce when exposed to heat."

Note the words “REDUCE” as opposed to “ELIMINATE” as it’s an important distinction to consider when setting expectations. Although totally amateurish and done with a cell phone camera, a flashlight held in my mouth and a heat gun, a few paragraphs down in the notes I kept about my Zipang experience are some pics that illustrate this on a very minor level: https://budgetplan1.wordpress.com/gl...atings/#ZIPANG

Here’s a video where a professional explains it better than I ever could:
What does self-healing mean?:

A few other vids from a pro explaining various other considerations of coatings:
1. 5 Common MYTHS About Ceramic Coating!:
2. Will I Be Disappointed with a Ceramic Coating?:
Paint Protection Film/PPF:

In my mind, the next step up the ladder is Paint Protection Film, aka Clear Bra and a few other names that elude me right now.

PPF *will* provide a level of protection from road debris, chips and other defects and most current films have self-healing capabilities that can help minimize defects…again with limitations. My guess is due to the film thickness (8mil, I believe) vs coating layer thickness (probably measured in microns?) deeper defects can be reduced/healed better with PPF as opposed to coatings. In April 2019 we bought a new, black Corvette for my wife which we had STEK Dynoshield applied to all painted surfaces. I’m only 6 months in (last Summer) with it so no long term opinions but I’ve kept some notes on the first 6 months here: https://budgetplan1.wordpress.com/li...tek-dynoshield/

The film also has some hydrophobic, coating-like properties built into it so self-cleaning effects will be present. Most films can be topped with a coating as well, perhaps further enhancing the coating-like benefits. Not cheap to have a whole car wrapped but if you’re gonna go big, may as well go REALLY big.

What folks smarter than I have to say about PPF:
- Should I get PPF or Ceramic Coatings on my car?:
Lotsa choices, no perfect answer. Your best means of knowledge and info is your PROFESSIONAL Detailer a trusted, a knowledgeable professional has seen and done far more than any half-wit hobbyist like myself ever will so it’s best to take advantage of what they can offer.

I'm kinda a 'coating junkie' in that I spent 3 years trying about 20-25 different coatings looking for what worked best *for me*. Keep all of my notes on that here if interested: https://budgetplan1.wordpress.com/gl...ramic-coatings/

When I snatched up a 981 last fall, went at it immediately, a bit about that here: https://budgetplan1.wordpress.com/so...#Cayman_Detail

Not a pro, just having fun...

like most things, no "One stop, single best solution" for everyone...strengths and compromises with each approach.

And FWIW, aside from a *very* few coatings, either pro or consumer" coatings are relatively easy to remove with medium polish or light compound...not really a big deal.

wcw67

+1 to what Iliveoncaffeine posted. Also, great post Budgetplan! I work for XPEL corporate. Let me know (pm me) if you've any questions I may help with. Otherwise the info above is great.

rzspyder

Thank you all! Lots of good points and info for me to go over.

DFW01TT

Thanks for taking the time to put that reply together BudgetPlan1.

s2kspyder

BudgetPlan, thanks for all the wondering information. From all the research I have done, for my needs I will be doing both for the following reasons

1) I want to preserve the original factory paint for as long as possible from chips, damage, etc. Hence I will be doing PPF on target surfaces (i.e. bumper, hood, mirror, rear quarters, etc) or the complete car. As you already noted, complete car can be quite expensive so I am trying to figure out if this will fit my budget. The other factor to consider is the quality of the installation, maybe places will offer "pre-cut" pieces especially for the bumper but I insist on all bulk installation for the "cleanest/closest" installation. I don't want to see any lines but the drawback is 1) they may have to remove some pieces like door handle, mirrors, badges, antenna, etc which may not put back perfectly? 2) what if they cut the film and accidentally and damage the paint underneath? If I insist the installation be perfection, there may be a pickiness tax on top of the install that some other customer may not care for!

I went back and forth between XPEL Ultimate 8/10mm vs. Clearguard Alpha. Unfortunately Clearguard Alpha is not readily available and more expensive in my area. Xpel is the most common/marketed brand here and everyone agrees has the strongest glue. I am considering 8mm all around and maybe 10mm on the bumper only. Do some research on the products too.

2) I want it to stay clean easily which the ceramic coating will provide. I don't have time to wash the car every week so having it stay clean longer will be the main benefit. I have seen a car with it and was surprised at how good it looked after a few weeks without washing. In fact, I was first sold on doing a coating after seeing another car before I did more research and found out about PPF being superior than products of the past (i.e. yellowing, ugly lines, etc). Luckily the cost of ceramic coating is much less than that of the actual PPF. I love the hydrophobic properties of the coating.

rzspyder

@BudgetPlan1 Thanks again for the info. I’m settling on installing a clear bra + ceramic coat the entire car. For the PPF, I’m still researching Kavaca and XPEL.

AndyE1976

I will be doing both, PPF on the front and rockers (the area around the side intakes will pick up some chips/debris) and then ceramic over the top.

I specifically found a place that doesn't cut on the car and wraps the edges, typically this requires them to edit the templates that they get from the companies.

I'm also doing ceramic coating on the wheels and interior to help protect the alcantara

BudgetPlan1

My pleasure, hopefully it helps with your choices.

It really can be a somewhat challenging proposition to decide not only what's 'best' but what is best *for you* with all the considerations involved. The installer is the key, if you can find one you trust without question, it's a far easier decision. I knew exactly WHO i wanted to do the install even before I knew exactly what they'd be installing.

While I knew a bit about PPF, there were things I didn't consider that they brought up, not only giving me the results I wanted but saving me some $$ in the process. There were certain aspects to the process that I was sure were necessary to get where I was going but after speaking with them, they indicated it would be best to wait and see and determine what all was needed once the car was delivered. It was a winning strategy for sure. Many PPF's have 'built in' hydrophobic properties as well so ya also got that going for ya depending on which film is used.

It took me about a 'season' to have full confidence in PPF but I'm there now so no regrets whatsoever.

Sometimes I think coating the wheels, especially w/ German brakes, saves me more time in general cleanup that having the paint coated. Will never have a car without coated wheels again. But who am I kidding, will never have a car without a coating on the paint either. Coatings appeal to my sometimes lazy approach to vehicle maintenance :lol:

4MIDABLE

You can put this on the Alcantara??? Does it prevent it from getting a matted and..."gross"? Is cleaning it easier?

s2kspyder

Budget, I am under the impression even though PPF have some hydrophobic properties, it won’t be as good as a coating or last as long either....is this what you have been told?

s2kspyder

I could not find too much information on kavaca but I figured ceramic pro is good with coatings so the PPF may be more a side business? Just like I would not use xpel’s fusion coating for the same reason....