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When I was trying to rationalize the Spyder purchase, comparing what you get for the price of a base 911 was one of the exercises I did.
This excerpt is a highlight of the piece... well written:
The 911 shape is so rounded and clean it's as though the car has spent a century tumbling back and forth on a pebble beach, the tide rushing in and out again in an endless loop, knocking off sharp edges and wearing the bodywork down to a smooth finish. On the other hand, with its towering rear wing and jutting front splitter the GT4 seems to have left a circuit at high speed, crashed straight through a tyre wall, landed on the public road and simply carried on.
For me, it's not just the transmission. I could afford a manual 911 if I wanted one, but I don't. Prefer the shape and style of the Cayman, it being a strict 2 seater, mid-engined, and lighter. My 718 GT4 order costs more than a base 992 S, but it's what I want.
For me it is a naturally aspirated mid-engine flat-6, manual transmission, 2 seat, cabriolet, the 718 Spyder ticks all of those boxes and more... can't wait!
The selling point on the GT4 for me is the naturally aspirated motor and manual transmission. Although turbos can be tons of fun, I love NA--which is why I am never selling my v10 M5 (also manual, not SMG). Already eaten tons of depreciation and maintenence costs so why bother. This might be the last round of NA Porsches (who knows?) so the time is now. A new GT3, unfortunately, is outside my budget. I thought about a 997.1 GT3 but the combination of a big birthday, euro delivery and an available allocation makes this a no-brainer for me.
Hard to buy into that review - specifically in relation to the base 911 - the S is a much better car, particularly with RAS which is a game changer in terms of overall handling, add into that brakes, suspension set up, shorter gearing (diff) - more rewarding to drive hard. I do like the new GT4, Spyder and GTS and would take any of these over a base 911 everyday of the week and twice on Sundays. Anyone that bought into the T marketing got mugged last time and will get mugged this time (992 T).
Anyone that bought into the T marketing got mugged last time and will get mugged this time (992 T).
Huh? Ts and base models with the ‘t-options’ were virtually the same price (some argue T’s were less.) How’s that a mugging? The same logic would mean that a GTS is a mugging too.
Huh? Ts and base models with the ‘t-options’ were virtually the same price (some argue T’s were less.) How’s that a mugging? The same logic would mean that a GTS is a mugging too.
parts bin special at the end of the line - total mugging - nope GTS out performs the S of next generation.
parts bin special at the end of the line - total mugging - nope GTS out performs the S of next generation.
No basis in fact you have.
Take a base 991.2 (when you could) add all options that are standard on the T variant and the price is more-or-less the same. This is currently the case for the 718 except that the 718T is cheaper, slightly, than an optioned-up base. Explain why this is mugging for those that were going to get all the options that are standard on a T.
On the 991.2 you could option an S with all the *functional* GTS bits (e.g. Powerkit etc.) On the 718 you can’t option the extra few hundred rpm of max torque for the extra 15 hp.
And in all cases there were options available on the T that were not available on the base (e.g. LWBs, etc.)
Yes, it’s “marketing engineering” to make an older variant more attractive, but calling it a “mugging” is simply incorrect.
Here’s a 718 base with functional T options and a similar interior. It’s more expensive than the 718T:
Take a base 991.2 (when you could) add all options that are standard on the T variant and the price is more-or-less the same. This is currently the case for the 718 except that the 718T is cheaper, slightly, than an optioned-up base. Explain why this is mugging for those that were going to get all the options that are standard on a T.
On the 991.2 you could option an S with all the *functional* GTS bits (e.g. Powerkit etc.) On the 718 you can’t option the extra few hundred rpm of max torque for the extra 15 hp.
And in all cases there were options available on the T that were not available on the base (e.g. LWBs, etc.)
Yes, it’s “marketing engineering” to make an older variant more attractive, but calling it a “mugging” is simply incorrect.
Here’s a 718 base with functional T options and a similar interior. It’s more expensive than the 718T:
It was an out an out mugging with the 991 T - it was offered at the end of the line. It weighed marginally less than the base and had the diff from the S to give it shorter gearing than the base. It came with sports PASM.
Morover you couldn’t get key options such as RAS - which makes a huge difference and furthermore you were left with the anaemic brakes from the base model add to this, the PDK version did not get the e-diff.......and the manual is the ho hum 7 speed.
It was a marketing exercise which has aged very, very poorly.
Compare and contrast with the 982 GTS - which is lighter, naturally aspirated, 4l flat six, six speed manual, revs to 7800, has more HP.............and cheaper to boot.
The 991.2 GTS from that generation was on another level and was very close to being on par with the GT3. In fact, its still quicker than the 992S.
I don’t know anything about the 718T but a 2l turbo isn’t very appealing. In contrast, the 718GTS is very appealing - for the reasons stated above e.g. it’s everything that the T wants to be but isn’t.
Don't think 911T owners got mugged. I think I actually saved money with the package as a whole for all the options plus that little sprinkle of special.
True they could've done better with the T: spartan options, even lighter, and a six speed...but honestly its a fantastic package in a narrow body 911. The base engine with the manual gearbox that comes with the T is so useable and exciting on the street. But you've had this argument before in other threads and I'm not going to convince you. I do think the RS rear glass and the decreased sound insulation makes for great theater on the daily drive. IMHO I think the 911T hits all the spots for an all around sports car you can live with every single day. Now is it a GT car...no. Does is rev like a GT car...no. Is it fun as hell...yes.
I am looking for a 718 to add to my garage (hopefully a GT4 RS) so I'm not saying one way or the other...just saying that the T hate is a little too much. Just drive one (with RAS if thats your thing).
04-06-2020, 04:59 PM
Porsche 718 Cayman GT4 vs 911 Carrera
