What is a "Real" 356 Porsche?
07-07-2006, 02:33 PM
#1
Instructor
Thread Starter
What is a "Real" 356 Porsche?
In the recent topic where a lister asked for information about buying a 356 or a "Clone", I was about to submit a reply. However, while several on this forum commented along the lines "It's easy...one is a REAL Porsche" the dialogue turned nasty rapidly without much content value on the original question. I have owned Porsches for over 46 years from a new 1962 Super 90 Coupe thru a couple of 911/993 models, I learned many years ago that the vast majority of comments from Porsche owner's are based on 90 percent "Passion" and 10 percent "Logic". Worse yet, when the "Earth Mother of 356s" came on and was attacked about some "Toe Thing" which I could never hope to understand, I withdrew proposed comment and timidly retreated.
A "healing time" has passed and I've checked that my Medicare card and Health Insurance supplement will give me coverage from attacks by automotive eco-terrorists, I'll try once more.
First permit me some definitions that we use as Volunteers at the National Museum of the United States Air Force to describe aircraft exhibits which also can apply to vintage products like automobiles. A "Survivor" is an original unrestored, except for material to extend preservation (Martin B-10 Bomber). A "Reproduction" is built from the ground up using original drawings and materials to the extent possible (1909 Wright Military Flyer). It may or may not be operable. A "Clone" has the true "Heart and Character" (the DNA) of the original and reattained life from that DNA to be a visual original (Japanese A6M2 "Zero"). A "Replica" looks from outward appearances to be original but has visual differences and lacks the internal "soul" of the original thru the use of more modern and safe materials (Ju-52, actually a Spanish licensed version built in 1953).
The first Porsche 356 Roadster and hand-hammered Coupes built in Gmund were not "REAL" Porsches either, since there was no "Real Porsche" at that time. Porsche had a Reconstructors License to repair vehicles under Allied Occupation Authorities in Austria. As such they were first registered as "Kdf (later VW) Reconstruction" as Ferry Porsche himself told us at a PCA Treffen at the Hotel Graf Zeppelin in 1978.
Twenty years ago or so I thought I'd buy a 356B or C to recapture the fond memories I had of my Super 90 Coupe that I left behind in Germany to attend graduate school. I searched for several months and finally found a modestly priced 356C Coupe that you would call in Auto Auction terms, a #3 "Driver". It would not meet any of the categories described above. After I drove it my wife ask if we were going to get it. I told her "absolutely not". I could feel every bushing and door/body creak as well as the hot oil dripping on heat exchanger aroma which served to destroy my "Passionate Memory" of being a 23 year old batchelor, roaring up the the Aschaffenburg/Wurzburg Autobahn wide open on the 4th of July, and throwing an M80 Artillery simulator over the rail on the long-span bridge to go off halfway to the valley floor below. In other words, that car just made me feel "old" and it's "aches and creaks" reminded me of my own, rather than the fond memories I was trying to rekindle.
Several years ago, I found the solution...an Intermecannica 356 Convertible D REPLICA (defined above). Originally built in 1989 and shipped to California where a 2110cc Mexican case VW engine, Deep Sump, Oil Cooler, Webers, approximately 165-180 horsepower was installed. The original owner went to great lengths to ensure "visual" accuracy with all Porsche NOS lights, VDO instruments, square weave carpets, Nardi Wheel, Recaros, Reutter body tag and 4-wheels discs and calipers from a 1969 911S. At casual local Auto Shows, 99 & 44/100 percent of those looking think it's a "Real" Porsche and even at Porsche Afficionadios gatherings at least 90 percent think it is a Porsche. The usually "giveaway" is the wheels and tires (looking much better than the vintage "mags" on a local's "Real" Speedster).
The positive side is that you can drive it a couple of hundred miles and not worry about it like you would a "Real Porsche" (although for some reason, the original owner was able to register it in California as a 1959 Porsche 356A Convertible D, even though he also got a "CA" id number)...it will even leak like an original with the top up when it rains. It will outaccelerate my 1996 911/993 Cabrio to 60 mph and then the VW gearbox (which is likely the weak link mechanically) and gearing loses out.
It does not drive like an original 356 and thus does not destroy my "Passion Memory" in any way. In fact, the handling is about like a truck...a 1953 Chevrolet C-1500 comes to mind with an equivalent turning radius. So, my recommendation to the original poster is to go for a quality Replica. If it turns out wrong, you will have spend far less than "coaxing" a 45 year old multi-bondo restored "Real 356 Driver" into a reasonably reliable and enjoyable weekend vehicle. With that learning experience, you can then purchase a "Real" Porsche and lovingly drive it less than 500 miles per year for insurance purposes.
So...flail away, but save me from the "if you know so much, why don't you spend $15 and become a list member", my answer is simple. I was a "member" but did not renew. $15 means more to a Senior Citizen than it did to me 40 or so years ago plus I can't afford to be called an "Addict" at my fragile stage of life!
Perry
A "healing time" has passed and I've checked that my Medicare card and Health Insurance supplement will give me coverage from attacks by automotive eco-terrorists, I'll try once more.
First permit me some definitions that we use as Volunteers at the National Museum of the United States Air Force to describe aircraft exhibits which also can apply to vintage products like automobiles. A "Survivor" is an original unrestored, except for material to extend preservation (Martin B-10 Bomber). A "Reproduction" is built from the ground up using original drawings and materials to the extent possible (1909 Wright Military Flyer). It may or may not be operable. A "Clone" has the true "Heart and Character" (the DNA) of the original and reattained life from that DNA to be a visual original (Japanese A6M2 "Zero"). A "Replica" looks from outward appearances to be original but has visual differences and lacks the internal "soul" of the original thru the use of more modern and safe materials (Ju-52, actually a Spanish licensed version built in 1953).
The first Porsche 356 Roadster and hand-hammered Coupes built in Gmund were not "REAL" Porsches either, since there was no "Real Porsche" at that time. Porsche had a Reconstructors License to repair vehicles under Allied Occupation Authorities in Austria. As such they were first registered as "Kdf (later VW) Reconstruction" as Ferry Porsche himself told us at a PCA Treffen at the Hotel Graf Zeppelin in 1978.
Twenty years ago or so I thought I'd buy a 356B or C to recapture the fond memories I had of my Super 90 Coupe that I left behind in Germany to attend graduate school. I searched for several months and finally found a modestly priced 356C Coupe that you would call in Auto Auction terms, a #3 "Driver". It would not meet any of the categories described above. After I drove it my wife ask if we were going to get it. I told her "absolutely not". I could feel every bushing and door/body creak as well as the hot oil dripping on heat exchanger aroma which served to destroy my "Passionate Memory" of being a 23 year old batchelor, roaring up the the Aschaffenburg/Wurzburg Autobahn wide open on the 4th of July, and throwing an M80 Artillery simulator over the rail on the long-span bridge to go off halfway to the valley floor below. In other words, that car just made me feel "old" and it's "aches and creaks" reminded me of my own, rather than the fond memories I was trying to rekindle.
Several years ago, I found the solution...an Intermecannica 356 Convertible D REPLICA (defined above). Originally built in 1989 and shipped to California where a 2110cc Mexican case VW engine, Deep Sump, Oil Cooler, Webers, approximately 165-180 horsepower was installed. The original owner went to great lengths to ensure "visual" accuracy with all Porsche NOS lights, VDO instruments, square weave carpets, Nardi Wheel, Recaros, Reutter body tag and 4-wheels discs and calipers from a 1969 911S. At casual local Auto Shows, 99 & 44/100 percent of those looking think it's a "Real" Porsche and even at Porsche Afficionadios gatherings at least 90 percent think it is a Porsche. The usually "giveaway" is the wheels and tires (looking much better than the vintage "mags" on a local's "Real" Speedster).
The positive side is that you can drive it a couple of hundred miles and not worry about it like you would a "Real Porsche" (although for some reason, the original owner was able to register it in California as a 1959 Porsche 356A Convertible D, even though he also got a "CA" id number)...it will even leak like an original with the top up when it rains. It will outaccelerate my 1996 911/993 Cabrio to 60 mph and then the VW gearbox (which is likely the weak link mechanically) and gearing loses out.
It does not drive like an original 356 and thus does not destroy my "Passion Memory" in any way. In fact, the handling is about like a truck...a 1953 Chevrolet C-1500 comes to mind with an equivalent turning radius. So, my recommendation to the original poster is to go for a quality Replica. If it turns out wrong, you will have spend far less than "coaxing" a 45 year old multi-bondo restored "Real 356 Driver" into a reasonably reliable and enjoyable weekend vehicle. With that learning experience, you can then purchase a "Real" Porsche and lovingly drive it less than 500 miles per year for insurance purposes.
So...flail away, but save me from the "if you know so much, why don't you spend $15 and become a list member", my answer is simple. I was a "member" but did not renew. $15 means more to a Senior Citizen than it did to me 40 or so years ago plus I can't afford to be called an "Addict" at my fragile stage of life!
Perry
07-07-2006, 05:44 PM
#2
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Perry,
Great post. The categories you describe are a useful point-of-departure. I am not clear as to the distinction between a clone and a replica - can you explain further? The ac analogies help, might you also illuminate w/ specific 356-centric examples?
Intentionally or not, your post reinforces the "90% passion & 10% logic" observation, since your decision to go w/ the Inter D seems based on personal perspective & past experience. Absolutely nothing wrong with that - it's not like you need one for transport & it's your $!
Unlike your initial good fortune of owning & driving a new 356 (thus calibrating your standards - forever?), my first exposure was to a #3 driver ('62S B Coupe). Driving it & working on it, I was captured by all its unique sporting & quality features. I was not able to buy my first 356 until I was older, a D when it was already 20+ yrs old... quite tired & w/ a chequered history. Yet, I loved driving & working on it as well. Since then I've owned many BMWs, Alfas, & a few 911s. Just a few years ago I picked up a SC, also a #3 driver (in a fair deal - they are out there). I picked it up in SLC, Utah & drove it back here to N AL in 2 days, one stint of 1275 mi nonstop @ 80 mph avg (confirming it would do the ton while trying to keep up w/ SUVs in W Nebraska), no breakdowns. The only time it has ever stranded me (knock wood!) was when the batt cable came adrift - fixed it in 2 minutes & was on my way.
Obviously, I am just plain lucky. But I drive it at least weekly & have no compunction about driving it at any time, over any distance, in any weather (though crowded highways, hailstorms & summer heat remind me of how nice it is to have the 300TE Benz). I have enough direct experience w/ survivors & concours-restored 356s to appreciate how nice (& expensive!) a "correct" 356 ought to drive. Somehow, this has not diminished my enjoyment of my SC. Nor does it direct my interest towards a replica, even one as high quality as Intermecannica's. I view replicas as a distinct category / choice, not as an either / or alternative to a Porsche-assembled 356. {& If I want a #2 level Porsche driving experience, there is always the '87 911} I gain intrinsic value in servicing & modifying my own cars, so driving is only part of the equation. As I grow older, the driving pleasure increases as wrenching competes with other demands & interests, I'll admit. As 40+ yr old cars go, Porsche-sourced 356s offer as much utility (not to mention investment capacity, so I won't) as any car ever built. I predict it will always be so.
So, what might someone gleen from our overlapping yet distinct povs?
YMMV
cheers - & ktf, on the ground & in the air.
Great post. The categories you describe are a useful point-of-departure. I am not clear as to the distinction between a clone and a replica - can you explain further? The ac analogies help, might you also illuminate w/ specific 356-centric examples?
Intentionally or not, your post reinforces the "90% passion & 10% logic" observation, since your decision to go w/ the Inter D seems based on personal perspective & past experience. Absolutely nothing wrong with that - it's not like you need one for transport & it's your $!
Unlike your initial good fortune of owning & driving a new 356 (thus calibrating your standards - forever?), my first exposure was to a #3 driver ('62S B Coupe). Driving it & working on it, I was captured by all its unique sporting & quality features. I was not able to buy my first 356 until I was older, a D when it was already 20+ yrs old... quite tired & w/ a chequered history. Yet, I loved driving & working on it as well. Since then I've owned many BMWs, Alfas, & a few 911s. Just a few years ago I picked up a SC, also a #3 driver (in a fair deal - they are out there). I picked it up in SLC, Utah & drove it back here to N AL in 2 days, one stint of 1275 mi nonstop @ 80 mph avg (confirming it would do the ton while trying to keep up w/ SUVs in W Nebraska), no breakdowns. The only time it has ever stranded me (knock wood!) was when the batt cable came adrift - fixed it in 2 minutes & was on my way.
Obviously, I am just plain lucky. But I drive it at least weekly & have no compunction about driving it at any time, over any distance, in any weather (though crowded highways, hailstorms & summer heat remind me of how nice it is to have the 300TE Benz). I have enough direct experience w/ survivors & concours-restored 356s to appreciate how nice (& expensive!) a "correct" 356 ought to drive. Somehow, this has not diminished my enjoyment of my SC. Nor does it direct my interest towards a replica, even one as high quality as Intermecannica's. I view replicas as a distinct category / choice, not as an either / or alternative to a Porsche-assembled 356. {& If I want a #2 level Porsche driving experience, there is always the '87 911} I gain intrinsic value in servicing & modifying my own cars, so driving is only part of the equation. As I grow older, the driving pleasure increases as wrenching competes with other demands & interests, I'll admit. As 40+ yr old cars go, Porsche-sourced 356s offer as much utility (not to mention investment capacity, so I won't) as any car ever built. I predict it will always be so.
So, what might someone gleen from our overlapping yet distinct povs?
YMMV
cheers - & ktf, on the ground & in the air.
