JimmiLew

Mavens,

I am interested in your educated opions. After taking a year off from racing due to premature race car expiration, I am ready to return to the fray for the 2006 season.

I really wanted a 993 Cup. Reason: A little more rare, air cooled, less expensive to maintain (than a 996) and less of a hornets nest to race in. You really need to spend a lot to run at the front with a 996 Cup from what I have heard.

BUT: With so many 996 Cups now on the market, prices have adjusted to the laws of supply and demand. Seems like more supply than demand at this point. Finding a nice 996 Cup at a bargain price seems a lot easier than finding any nice 993 Cup.

So the question is: If you were me, which would you buy? I am an experienced Club Racer with 10 years under my belt. I can podium consistently with the right car.

What are your thoughts guys?

Jimmilew

Dbltime

I guess the real answer depends on your goal. I raced a 993 street car in C stock and then converted the car to GT2S and R. Going to a 993 cup would not be any quicker and as you pointed out GT3 Cups are deals in the older cars '99-2001. So I elected to buy a 99 cup. The intensity of the racing is much higher in the wet cup group especially in big races like Watkins Glen and Sebring. I have not driven the new car yet but I coexisted with the wet cups in my 2R car. Bottom line GT3 Cups are faster and better values so they get my vote.

gt3cup

Jimmilew,

Please note I have an '02 for sale so take this w/a grain of salt. That being said, your true end use should heavily influence your search. If you are interested in PCA GTC3 than beware of some of the "bargain" cars out there. I too have noticed a number of 996 Cups with really attractive prices lately. It seems as a number of these cars are ex-Rolex and from what I understand, are not inexpensive to return to GTC3 specs. If you were to campaign them in their current configuration, it would bump you into GTA against some pretty stiff competition. There are also a number of older Cups out there that are attractively priced. These cars can be competitive w/the later years but must be updated to do so. Look for one that already has this done because it is also very expensive to accomplish. Also as with any car, history and hours should be considered. Paying a little more for a clean, non-modified(class legal), updated, well maintained, low hour Cup is will pay benefit in the long. If you buy the right car, your first year run costs should be minimal. I also believe that these cars will become an even better investment (if there is such a thing in racecars) once the interest in the new HSR class grows.

Buy the right car and you'll love it!

Mark

Bull

I would get a 993 Cup simply because I like them better and they are more rare. "Better value" is a long term issue and guesstimate. But, I raced E Production and C Production many moons ago when it was cheaper and simpler to run in other, sometimes faster, classes....so I am suspect at best!

I don't think you will go wrong with either decision, which makes it one of the difficult ones to make sometimes!

Stuttgart

The 993 cup is a rock solid car, extremely reliable, and incredibly fun to drive. Some say the 993's are harder to drive, some say they're easier, I couldn't tell you, but the 993 is well balanced and you really feel connected to the chassis. Now that the newer cars are getting faster they are normally grouped in the second fastest group, which it will run at the front of. Sometimes you'll run in the top group, and at tracks like Roebling Road, you won't have too much trouble keeping up with the majority of the 996 cups. The best thing about the 993's, in my opinion, is the fact that there were few changes from 95-98, so all the cars are incredibly close in terms of performance, and you don't have to throw money at it to get it up the specs of the newest model (like the 04-05 996 cups)

JimmiLew

Thanks guys, keep it coming. Stuggart sees what I see in the 993 Cups. Bullitt proof car, easy to maintain, all built the same, less expensive to run, can run with 996 Cups mostly.

Here is an example of what looks to be a nice 996 Cup car at reasonable price with a "motivated seller". Look at ad #737 in the RL classifieds. A 2001 cup supposedly legal for GTC3 with spares and extra wheels for $79K. What am I missing here?

Now you can see my dilemna!

kev

I raced a 993 Cup a couple of times last year. Sold it recently to get into a 996 Cup.

My first question to you would be where are you located? There is a pretty healthly 993 Cup scene on the east coast in PCA. Nine Cups signed up for Sebring and, imo, that class will continue to grow. Otherwise, its pretty lonely in the rest of the country. I loved driving that car and if I lived on the east coast, I would still be racing it next season.

I'd agree that campaigning a 993 Cup more often than not is going to be less than running a 996 Cup when you factor in initial cost of the car. I'd also tell you that the 996 Cup does have some design improvements that do make it cheaper to run in areas. For example, the front splitter design on the 993 is miserable, and you will break at least two, if not more, during a season. Aftermarket they are $600 fiberglass without paint. Side skirts are pretty flimsly too, and those are about $1000 a set. The 996 front splitter is $100 and seems much more durable, same with the side skirts. Also, water cooling is a nice thing to have as regards motor longevity, again imo.

You mention rarity and I would just warn you that items like Speedline wheel parts, motor internals and factory steel roll-up doors are sometimes hard to find.

MJR911

993 cups are holding value better simply b/c there is a smaller supply. As with anything, the market will drop as the 996 cars are no longer competitive in pro and their supply is more plentiful. If going to a 996, I would hold out for a later car that hasn't been abused.

From the competition side, I believe there will be more racers in GTC3 than GTC2 but the 993 cups are definitely more friendly to the pocket, especially on the engine side.

kev

I've looked into this re: engine rebuild, and I'm not sure if that rumor is necessarily true.

JimmiLew

Kev, I am on the east coast. Mitch, I am that guy in the G car who turned sub 2:16 laps at the Glen and gave Mike Ellis a hard time! He he

Seriously, all of you make good points. The thing I loved about my G car was minimal maintenance, turn the key, and go fast right out of the box! Thats what I like about the 993. Can it be the same in a 996 cup?

Glen

Well,
I am biased, I have owned several 993's including a 3.6, a 3.8 and a TT all for track use. The 3.8 suffers from being right at the edge of its thermal limits and all 3.8 heads heat fatigue and crack over time. This occurs slower in the RSCS or Cup iteration than the RSR and takes more time to fail in the aforementioned versions. That does not make them cheaper to run than a wet Cup, they are the cheapest cars to run I have ever raced. The nonsense I read on how much they cost to run makes me laugh in fact. I know exactly what they have cost me and they are cheaper than my 914/6, my 993, my 993 3.8 and my 993 TT to race. The overlooked thing is that they are the SAFEST car to race so far and very affordable to maintain. We took apart a 87 hour motor in a 996 Cup recently and it was a complete waste of time, motor was basically perfect inside with some intermediate bearing wear that would have gone fine much much longer. Pair that with the fact that Porsche sold ALL of their 993 and 964 parts inventory to one shop recently and I do not think the cheap to race and maintain story will last much longer for those cars. As an exercise just go out and find what a set of 3.8 heads will cost You when You have to replace them(if You can find them) and You will see what I am getting at. Anyway, again I must admit to my preexisting bias, I have owned 4 different 996 Cups this year alone and absolutely love the early 996 Cups as far as value and expense to maintain. I also know what it takes to update them, sold my 03(same as 04,05 drivetrain and gearing, brakes, body panels, exhaust ,electrics, only significant difference in the 05 is the cage). and went back to currently owning 2 2000 Cup cars.I love them and have actually turned faster laps in my 2000 than my 03 even though the 2000 has about 25-30 less hp than my 03 did at the rear wheels. The 99-01 use cheaper fenders, cheaper bumper covers, cheaper headlights(read Boxster) by a huge margin over the late cars, cheaper rotors125$,cheaper calipers(stock 996 TT) brake pads, axles, exhaust, struts are cheap to rebuild, the list goes on and on....Guess it is very easy to see why I feel the way I do. The 993 is arguably more rare and collectible so perhaps it should be preserved while the 996's are tanks that love to be raced.
Hope that helps,
Best regards,
Glen

38D

The 993 Cup is a much lower revving engine. Three things kills engines: revs, heat and boost.

I would get the 993 cup or even a 964 cup. They are very, very fast when driven well, and will hold their value far better as the supply is much less. The wet cups are definitiely faster.

Greg Fishman

[QUOTE=Glen] Pair that with the fact that Porsche sold ALL of their 993 and 964 parts inventory to one shop recently [\QUOTE]

Glen,
For reference, what shop is that? And I am assuming you mean Porsche motorsport?

Dan Jacobs

Jim,
Glad to see your retirement was short lived. I would concur with Glen about the availability of parts for the 993 cups. I've redone several of these motors and the hard parts are getting impossible to find. PMA did sell all their parts to Charlie Spira (Wrightwood) who the resold them to I believe Werks 1. I don't see how you can keep the car legal in GTC2 long term if you can't get the correct parts. As Glen states I think the cost of running either car is very similar.
Happy Hunting,
Dan J

carreracup21

I think you are making the right decision to stay with the factory car. Whatever you pick, you can't go wrong. The 996 Cups are an amazing platform, and since the tires will cost about the same with either the 996 or 993, I'd vote for the 996. The only thing keeping me in D stock class 964 Cup is $1000 for a set of Hoosiers vs. $1500 for Dunlops that last half as long. Over the coarse of a season, that extra tire cost can add up. My 3.6 engine just keeps on ticking after 16k track miles without many issues other than a worn out LSD and main seal that had to be replaced. Occasional valve adjustmnets, oil changes ect. Budget 1k per hour excluding tires in the 996.