New RB CCB kit
07-14-2017 | 06:02 PM
#1
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From: 4MB, HYA
New RB CCB kit
I didn’t order my GT4 with PCCB primarily because of the $6.5G cost to replace a single worn or chipped rotor.
Another factor was decreased downforce due to a 410mm rotor blocking more of the air exiting the wheel well than the stock 380mm, although the difference is only 11 to 15 lbs;
https://rennlist.com/forums/gt4/8632...l#post12246190
I’m trying to slim down the car to under 2800 lbs, so looking for anything that can help accomplish this while keeping stock appearance, therefore lighter wheels are out.
___
1. New 394/390 kit;
I contacted Racing Brake about a CCB solution for the stock iron brakes that wouldn’t involve changing the calipers, and so they added a 394mm/390mm kit that accomplishes that;
http://www.racingbrake.com/RB-ZR1-CC...por-crk-04.htm
At ~$11K it’s essentially the following ~$14K kit that includes calipers, but without the calipers;
http://www.racingbrake.com/RB-CCB-Sy...ccb-por-05.htm
The front caliper spacer is 7mm high (rear is 5mm), so it shouldn’t push the caliper as close to the inner wheel barrel as the PCCB yellow caliper and 410mm rotor, and therefore pebbles wouldn’t be trapped between.
Replacement rotors are ~$1.5K front and ~$1.8K rear.
Weight saving is 48.8 lbs for the GT4 (41.6 lbs for a GT3), not taking into account any pad difference.
___
2. New 380/380 kit;
Racing Brake’s ~$9K CCB solution for the stock iron brakes that wouldn’t involve changing the calipers, nor adding spacers;
http://www.racingbrake.com/ProductDe...ode=POR-CRK-05
Does involve shortening eight rear caliper pad bolts, can be done yourself or send to Racing Brake for the modification, see post 32.
Replacement rotors are ~$1.5K front and rear.
Weight saving is 53.8 lbs for the GT4 (46.6 lbs for a GT3), not taking into account any pad difference.
Another factor was decreased downforce due to a 410mm rotor blocking more of the air exiting the wheel well than the stock 380mm, although the difference is only 11 to 15 lbs;
https://rennlist.com/forums/gt4/8632...l#post12246190
I’m trying to slim down the car to under 2800 lbs, so looking for anything that can help accomplish this while keeping stock appearance, therefore lighter wheels are out.
___
1. New 394/390 kit;
I contacted Racing Brake about a CCB solution for the stock iron brakes that wouldn’t involve changing the calipers, and so they added a 394mm/390mm kit that accomplishes that;
http://www.racingbrake.com/RB-ZR1-CC...por-crk-04.htm
At ~$11K it’s essentially the following ~$14K kit that includes calipers, but without the calipers;
http://www.racingbrake.com/RB-CCB-Sy...ccb-por-05.htm
The front caliper spacer is 7mm high (rear is 5mm), so it shouldn’t push the caliper as close to the inner wheel barrel as the PCCB yellow caliper and 410mm rotor, and therefore pebbles wouldn’t be trapped between.
Replacement rotors are ~$1.5K front and ~$1.8K rear.
Weight saving is 48.8 lbs for the GT4 (41.6 lbs for a GT3), not taking into account any pad difference.
___
2. New 380/380 kit;
Racing Brake’s ~$9K CCB solution for the stock iron brakes that wouldn’t involve changing the calipers, nor adding spacers;
http://www.racingbrake.com/ProductDe...ode=POR-CRK-05
Does involve shortening eight rear caliper pad bolts, can be done yourself or send to Racing Brake for the modification, see post 32.
Replacement rotors are ~$1.5K front and rear.
Weight saving is 53.8 lbs for the GT4 (46.6 lbs for a GT3), not taking into account any pad difference.
Last edited by d00d; 07-28-2017 at 10:55 AM.
07-14-2017 | 06:27 PM
#2
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Joined: Feb 2007
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From: ^ The Bay Bridge
Attractive option, for a lot of reasons. The $11k doesn't include pads, but the extra $498-1449 for pads is quite reasonable, as is the individual replacement rotor cost.
Only thing I'm trying to figure out is why four hats, four caliper spacers, and eight caliper bolts add up to $5400. Can that be right?
(Four replacement rotors cost $6600, and one might assume some small discount for buying a kit with four rotors and for buying into a new system that uses consumables from a third party.)
The full-blown kit's calipers sure are attractive, if for nothing other than easier pad changes.
Only thing I'm trying to figure out is why four hats, four caliper spacers, and eight caliper bolts add up to $5400. Can that be right?
(Four replacement rotors cost $6600, and one might assume some small discount for buying a kit with four rotors and for buying into a new system that uses consumables from a third party.)The full-blown kit's calipers sure are attractive, if for nothing other than easier pad changes.
07-14-2017 | 06:37 PM
#3
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Joined: May 2015
Posts: 1,693
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From: 4MB, HYA
Forgot to mention that one now obviously has spare iron rotors, but yeah the main difference in price is for the custom forged rotor hats to make it all go together.
I agree, their calipers are high quality, but more than I need for the street.
I agree, their calipers are high quality, but more than I need for the street.
07-14-2017 | 07:34 PM
#4
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 4,919
Likes: 1,332
From: ^ The Bay Bridge
Would still love to hear from RB on this, as $5400 for hats and a bit of hardware seems nutty. If they could drop the price point to $8000-9000 while keeping the stock calipers, I would've been very interested in this.
If RB setup lasts, performs, drops weight, and cuts down on wheel cleaning in the way that PCCB does—while using rotors that can be replaced for reasonable money—I could see this being a very, very popular conversion for people. I might even view it as preferable to both the standard setup as well as factory PCCB. Curious to hear what others think?
If RB setup lasts, performs, drops weight, and cuts down on wheel cleaning in the way that PCCB does—while using rotors that can be replaced for reasonable money—I could see this being a very, very popular conversion for people. I might even view it as preferable to both the standard setup as well as factory PCCB. Curious to hear what others think?
07-14-2017 | 09:27 PM
#5
Pro
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 611
Likes: 38
Would still love to hear from RB on this, as $5400 for hats and a bit of hardware seems nutty. If they could drop the price point to $8000-9000 while keeping the stock calipers, I would've been very interested in this.
If RB setup lasts, performs, drops weight, and cuts down on wheel cleaning in the way that PCCB does—while using rotors that can be replaced for reasonable money—I could see this being a very, very popular conversion for people. I might even view it as preferable to both the standard setup as well as factory PCCB. Curious to hear what others think?
If RB setup lasts, performs, drops weight, and cuts down on wheel cleaning in the way that PCCB does—while using rotors that can be replaced for reasonable money—I could see this being a very, very popular conversion for people. I might even view it as preferable to both the standard setup as well as factory PCCB. Curious to hear what others think?
07-15-2017 | 01:53 AM
#6
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 5,661
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Having been almost killed in a Turbo S braking into T12 at COTA, [edit] possibly shod with a RB kit, I would [edit] probably not [edit] risk using their products. The core of the issue turned out to be that [edit] the vendor either recommended or sent the wrong pad. The pad disintegrated under heavy track use, causing the caliper to rupture, loose pressure, sending us into a spin at 100mph going into T12. To add insult to injury we also caught on fire. I'm not saying [edit] anyones products are bad, but the [edit] potential stupidity of what had happened did not instill confidence.
Last edited by ShakeNBake; 07-17-2017 at 09:15 PM.
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07-15-2017 | 04:20 AM
#8
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,244
Likes: 241
From: SF Bay Area, CA
"- 64 18 way passenger seat remove (need to code out airbag sensors first)
- 46.4 Recaro Pole Position and side mounts"
Recaro Pole Positions and Al side mounts should weigh 19.3 all together so it should be 44.7 pounds lost for the driver's seat, not 46.4. Just kidding. More seriously though, no sliders?
Nice work, to add to your list:
-4 front plastic over battery
-2 rear divider
-3.5 both tool pull outs (keep tow hook though)
-3 carpets
-1.5 pump
Forgeline 20 inch wheels could save you around 16 pounds.
- 46.4 Recaro Pole Position and side mounts"
Recaro Pole Positions and Al side mounts should weigh 19.3 all together so it should be 44.7 pounds lost for the driver's seat, not 46.4. Just kidding. More seriously though, no sliders?
Nice work, to add to your list:
-4 front plastic over battery
-2 rear divider
-3.5 both tool pull outs (keep tow hook though)
-3 carpets
-1.5 pump
Forgeline 20 inch wheels could save you around 16 pounds.
07-15-2017 | 04:24 AM
#9
Rennlist Member
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 449
Likes: 18
Set of ST Rotors for GT
I didn’t order my GT4 with PCCB primarily because of the $6.5G cost to replace a single worn or chipped rotor.
Another factor was decreased downforce due to a 410mm rotor blocking more of the air exiting the wheel well than the stock 380mm, although the difference is only 11 to 15 lbs;
https://rennlist.com/forums/gt4/8632...l#post12246190
I’m trying to slim down the car to under 2800 lbs, so looking for anything that can help accomplish this while keeping stock appearance, therefore lighter wheels are out.
I contacted Racing Brake about a CCB solution for the stock iron brakes that wouldn’t involve changing the calipers, and so they added a 394mm/390mm kit that accomplishes that;
http://www.racingbrake.com/RB-ZR1-CC...por-crk-04.htm
At ~$11K it’s essentially the following ~$14K kit that includes calipers, but without the calipers;
http://www.racingbrake.com/RB-CCB-Sy...ccb-por-05.htm
The front caliper spacer is 7mm high (rear is 5mm), so it shouldn’t push the caliper as close to the inner wheel barrel as the PCCB yellow caliper and 410mm rotor, and therefore pebbles wouldn’t be trapped between.
Replacement rotors are ~$1.5K front and ~$1.8K rear.
Weight saving is 48.8 lbs for the GT4 (41.6 lbs for a GT3), not taking into account any pad difference.
Here’s what I have so far;
3114 Half tank estimate based on 4carl (weigh this weekend)
- 64 18 way passenger seat remove (need to code out airbag sensors first)
- 48.8 Racing Brake CCB 394mm/390mm kit with spacers, without calipers
- 46.4 Recaro Pole Position and side mounts
- 32.3 Earthx ETX1200 LiFePO4 battery (install next weekend)
- 30 Dundon titanium exhaust (on order)
- 15 Dundon headers (done)
- 8.8 Radio delete
- 8 Drain washer fluid
- 7.7 Trunk carpet pad remove
- 1.3 Rear side carpets remove
- ? Door speakers remove (9 lbs?)
- ? Frunk spare tire filler kit, carpet, pump, tools, etc.
- ? ?
______
2842.7 (-271.3)
Another factor was decreased downforce due to a 410mm rotor blocking more of the air exiting the wheel well than the stock 380mm, although the difference is only 11 to 15 lbs;
https://rennlist.com/forums/gt4/8632...l#post12246190
I’m trying to slim down the car to under 2800 lbs, so looking for anything that can help accomplish this while keeping stock appearance, therefore lighter wheels are out.
I contacted Racing Brake about a CCB solution for the stock iron brakes that wouldn’t involve changing the calipers, and so they added a 394mm/390mm kit that accomplishes that;
http://www.racingbrake.com/RB-ZR1-CC...por-crk-04.htm
At ~$11K it’s essentially the following ~$14K kit that includes calipers, but without the calipers;
http://www.racingbrake.com/RB-CCB-Sy...ccb-por-05.htm
The front caliper spacer is 7mm high (rear is 5mm), so it shouldn’t push the caliper as close to the inner wheel barrel as the PCCB yellow caliper and 410mm rotor, and therefore pebbles wouldn’t be trapped between.
Replacement rotors are ~$1.5K front and ~$1.8K rear.
Weight saving is 48.8 lbs for the GT4 (41.6 lbs for a GT3), not taking into account any pad difference.
Here’s what I have so far;
3114 Half tank estimate based on 4carl (weigh this weekend)
- 64 18 way passenger seat remove (need to code out airbag sensors first)
- 48.8 Racing Brake CCB 394mm/390mm kit with spacers, without calipers
- 46.4 Recaro Pole Position and side mounts
- 32.3 Earthx ETX1200 LiFePO4 battery (install next weekend)
- 30 Dundon titanium exhaust (on order)
- 15 Dundon headers (done)
- 8.8 Radio delete
- 8 Drain washer fluid
- 7.7 Trunk carpet pad remove
- 1.3 Rear side carpets remove
- ? Door speakers remove (9 lbs?)
- ? Frunk spare tire filler kit, carpet, pump, tools, etc.
- ? ?
______
2842.7 (-271.3)
Great brakes. Made in UK including hats... I Used Pagid RSC1, almost no wear on rotors.
PM me for details
07-15-2017 | 07:58 AM
#10
Thread Starter
Rennlist Member
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 1,693
Likes: 281
From: 4MB, HYA
Thanks sunnyr and Yargk for the suggestions.
Not good to say the least, glad both of you are still with us after that!
I feel like we're all beta testers when we buy a Porsche (GT4 3rd gear, GT3 valve train).
But seriously, for tracking I'd go with an all metallic sintered pad, instead of a semi metallic compound of which the binder can disintegrate like you note.
Semi metallic -> XT910 - Street (Front: PD1768-391 & Rear: PD1740A-391)
Sintered front, semi metallic rear (may produce sintered rear if enough demand) -> XC/XT - Trackable Street (Front: PD1395G-40 & Rear: PD1740A-391)
Sintered race compound (will squeal) -> XC - Dedicated Track/Racing (Front: PD1395G-41 & Rear: PD1395H-41)
Having been almost killed in a Turbo S braking into T12 at COTA, shod with the best RB has to offer, I would not touch their products. The core of the issue turned out to be that RB either recommended or sent the wrong pad. The pad disintegrated under heavy track use, causing the caliper to rupture, loose pressure, sending us into a spin at 100mph going into T12. To add insult to injury we also caught on fire. I'm not saying their products are bad, but the stupidity of what had happened did not instill confidence. I've also read and seen horror stories of their products failing while they iterate their designs using customers as beta testers.
I feel like we're all beta testers when we buy a Porsche (GT4 3rd gear, GT3 valve train).
But seriously, for tracking I'd go with an all metallic sintered pad, instead of a semi metallic compound of which the binder can disintegrate like you note.
Semi metallic -> XT910 - Street (Front: PD1768-391 & Rear: PD1740A-391)
Sintered front, semi metallic rear (may produce sintered rear if enough demand) -> XC/XT - Trackable Street (Front: PD1395G-40 & Rear: PD1740A-391)
Sintered race compound (will squeal) -> XC - Dedicated Track/Racing (Front: PD1395G-41 & Rear: PD1395H-41)
07-15-2017 | 01:28 PM
#11
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 4,919
Likes: 1,332
From: ^ The Bay Bridge
Having been almost killed in a Turbo S braking into T12 at COTA, shod with the best RB has to offer, I would not touch their products. The core of the issue turned out to be that RB either recommended or sent the wrong pad. The pad disintegrated under heavy track use, causing the caliper to rupture, loose pressure, sending us into a spin at 100mph going into T12. To add insult to injury we also caught on fire. I'm not saying their products are bad, but the stupidity of what had happened did not instill confidence. I've also read and seen horror stories of their products failing while they iterate their designs using customers as beta testers.
Thanks for sharing this, and glad no one was hurt. As with wheels that can roll freely and steering gear, there is zero room for failure when it comes to brakes. Lives depend on it.
07-17-2017 | 02:40 PM
#12
Former Vendor
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,340
Likes: 24
From: Fullerton, CA
Having been almost killed in a Turbo S braking into T12 at COTA, shod with the best RB has to offer, I would not touch their products. The core of the issue turned out to be that RB either recommended or sent the wrong pad. The pad disintegrated under heavy track use, causing the caliper to rupture, loose pressure, sending us into a spin at 100mph going into T12. To add insult to injury we also caught on fire. I'm not saying their products are bad, but the stupidity of what had happened did not instill confidence. I've also read and seen horror stories of their products failing while they iterate their designs using customers as beta testers.
Upon checking our shipment record, this rotor kit was ordered by an one time "dealer":
lethal performance & dyno inc
jordan loy
911 e hwy 11 e
jefferson city , TN 37760
XT910 is a street pad that was bundled with the rotor kit as standard which is what was ordered, but unfortunately this dealer didn't talk to us nor consult our advice on the application prior to ordering, so that's how the order was shipped.jordan loy
911 e hwy 11 e
jefferson city , TN 37760
To avoid this kind of mis-happening, endusers are urged to check our website, and/or contact us direct re application (street/track), compound selection etc., prior to their purchase (even they end up buying through their shop or online retailers). Most of track customers did contact (multiple times by phone/emails like this recent BMW 135i enthusiast*) us prior to his/their purchases.
We believe the car owner did call us (not through the dealer) to report the incident, we were just as upset as this customer for what's happened and did offer a solution to alleviate his situation.
*His latest review:
http://f20.1addicts.com/forums/showt...0#post21943310
Hey guys I decided to pull the trigger on some 2 peice light weight rotors and pads from racing brake. To give you some background I do a lot of 1/2 mile racing and have warped multiple sets of rotors and cracked pads from the high speed stops. Wanted to give some initial testing feedback on the RB OE replacement rotors and high temp XT910 street pads. I did a few consecutive 130mph down to about 40mph hard stops back to back after I bead them in. On the stock 135i rotors this would have ruined the rotors and cracked the pads. The RB rotors and pads took it like a champ! No pedal fade no vibrations just a crisp hard bite at the pedal as I expected. These rotors performed flawlessly through my stress test and I am confident they will not warp after the next 1/2 mile event. These rotors are 2 peice so when it's time for replacement you can order the rotor rings by them selves and re use the aluminum hate to cut down on replacement costs. Also these rotors shave 10-12 lbs of rotational weight in the front and another 10lbs if you choose to buy the rear also. To me that is worth it in itself. So far 10/10 in my book thanks racing brake!
07-17-2017 | 03:38 PM
#13
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 5,661
Likes: 965
Not a defense, here is the fact:
Upon checking our shipment record, this rotor kit was ordered by an one time "dealer":
To avoid this kind of mis-happening, endusers are urged to check our website, and/or contact us direct re application (street/track), compound selection etc., prior to their purchase (even they end up buying through their shop or online retailers). Most of track customers did contact (multiple times by phone/emails like this recent BMW 135i enthusiast*) us prior to his/their purchases.
We believe the car owner did call us (not through the dealer) to report the incident, we were just as upset as this customer for what's happened and did offer a solution to alleviate his situation.
*His latest review:
http://f20.1addicts.com/forums/showt...0#post21943310
Upon checking our shipment record, this rotor kit was ordered by an one time "dealer":
lethal performance & dyno inc
jordan loy
911 e hwy 11 e
jefferson city , TN 37760
XT910 is a street pad that was bundled with the rotor kit as standard which is what was ordered, but unfortunately this dealer didn't talk to us nor consult our advice on the application prior to ordering, so that's how the order was shipped.jordan loy
911 e hwy 11 e
jefferson city , TN 37760
To avoid this kind of mis-happening, endusers are urged to check our website, and/or contact us direct re application (street/track), compound selection etc., prior to their purchase (even they end up buying through their shop or online retailers). Most of track customers did contact (multiple times by phone/emails like this recent BMW 135i enthusiast*) us prior to his/their purchases.
We believe the car owner did call us (not through the dealer) to report the incident, we were just as upset as this customer for what's happened and did offer a solution to alleviate his situation.
*His latest review:
http://f20.1addicts.com/forums/showt...0#post21943310
Hey guys I decided to pull the trigger on some 2 peice light weight rotors and pads from racing brake. To give you some background I do a lot of 1/2 mile racing and have warped multiple sets of rotors and cracked pads from the high speed stops. Wanted to give some initial testing feedback on the RB OE replacement rotors and high temp XT910 street pads. I did a few consecutive 130mph down to about 40mph hard stops back to back after I bead them in. On the stock 135i rotors this would have ruined the rotors and cracked the pads. The RB rotors and pads took it like a champ! No pedal fade no vibrations just a crisp hard bite at the pedal as I expected. These rotors performed flawlessly through my stress test and I am confident they will not warp after the next 1/2 mile event. These rotors are 2 peice so when it's time for replacement you can order the rotor rings by them selves and re use the aluminum hate to cut down on replacement costs. Also these rotors shave 10-12 lbs of rotational weight in the front and another 10lbs if you choose to buy the rear also. To me that is worth it in itself. So far 10/10 in my book thanks racing brake!
07-17-2017 | 08:06 PM
#14
Rennlist Member
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 4,919
Likes: 1,332
From: ^ The Bay Bridge
LOL. Not sure I'd want my brakes modified by a company called "Lethal Performance (and Dyno)," but I guess this brings up the question of installation and application as well as manufacturing. From their website, it doesn't look like Lethal Performance has a lot of Porsche experience. There's probably more to know about the specific failure mentioned above, as well, whether it was connected to Lethal or not.
07-17-2017 | 08:23 PM
#15
Former Vendor
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,340
Likes: 24
From: Fullerton, CA
We checked through our data base and sales record, and can confirm that we have never shipped any CCM brakes for 991 Turbo S, nor the brake pads to any customer except the kit we specially built for Dave Donahue for his Pikes Peak racing which has Turbo S front upright and Cup rear upright.
So the issue you were talking about is definitely not RB set up.