Best Oil for Cayenne S?
05-16-2013, 07:28 PM
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Best Oil for Cayenne S?
Hi I have a 2004 Cayenne S and am coming due for an oil change. I previously took it to the dealership for oil changes, and so know they used Mobile1 0w-40. The last oil change I took it to the local Indy Porsche shop, and they used Castrol EDGE 5w-40. I have read some good reviews on this oil so I was OK with it, but O just checked the oil and it was BLACK on the dipstick, at 4k miles into the oil change. I have done some research online and there are many good oils out there, Motul, Amsoil, etc. actually while researching what oil to put in my KTM motocross bike, and landed on Maxima Extra4 Ester-based full-synthetic. I think they have comparable "Racing" oils for car and trucks as well. They are higher priced but appear to be much higher quality (applying the same logic of ingredients and performance as the motocross bikes), but aren't sold in local stores like Walmart or Pep Boys like Castrol or Mobile oils. I would think that with the added performance and protection afforded by this oils, as well as the much higher vehicle value they are used in, and the extended oil changes vs motocross bikes, it would make sense to put these oils in our Cayennes.
Has anyone used these higher-priced racing oils in their Cayennes?
Has anyone used these higher-priced racing oils in their Cayennes?
05-16-2013, 10:36 PM
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05-17-2013, 02:37 AM
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I'm just want to ask, why not to use Mobil 1 oil? It's not good enough for ours peppers? I'm using Mobil 1 0w-40, and I change it every 15000km. Well I'm almost there again, and I also want to know, If I can use some other better oil, or just stick with Mobile 1? Or maybe change to Mobile 1 5w40? I'm around 150.000km now.
Any suggestion appreciated.
Any suggestion appreciated.
05-17-2013, 08:51 AM
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Mcbit - according to some sources on the thread liked above, Mobil1 used to be good before they changed the formula to haven te detergents and less lubricating agents in order to grt better gas mileage to meet the new government regulations. Apparently, the racing oils noted above don't have to comply with these regulations and have better wear and performance properties. The only drawback is price. For example, $17/l for Amsoil or Redline racing 5w-40 vs $6 Mobil1 that you can buy at the auto parts store.
05-17-2013, 09:19 AM
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Also, according to the thread linked above, neither castrol edge or Mobil1 are "full-synthetic" because their base stocks are derive from petroleum-based materials and are then refined or "hydrocracked" and combined with other chemical additives in order to use the label full-synthetic, whereas the more expensive oils like Redline racing oil are truly full-synthetic because their base stocks are 100% synthetic PAO or Ester chemicals. And these chemicals are better at protecting your engine at high temps than Dino based synthetics like Mobil1 and castor edge. There was even a lawsuit about it. It's a whole thing. This has relevance to us because of the concerns with long term reliability and high mileage scoring that has occurred with some of the earlier model years of our cars. Anyone know the cheapest place to get amsoil or redline full-synthetic?
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05-17-2013, 12:51 PM
#9
Three Wheelin'
Yea, this subject has been broached countless times and everyone will have their own opinion. SilverCayenneS is correct about Mobil1 and Castrol Edge not being full synthetics. Mobil won their lawsuit in the U.S. so they can call it a full synthetic over here thanks to the lawyers.
My own $.02 which isn't worth much is just because Porsche recommends something doesn't mean its the best...they have marketing strategies and corporate kickbacks to use products. Remember, as good as the design is, and as much as we like our Pigs, this is still the company that gave us Plastic Coolant pipes, the wonderful Center driveshaft support bearing, Scored cylinders on many, etc... I could go on and on on other Porsche models, IMS bearings, Cam belt tensioners... So just because Porsche recommends something I don't take it as Gospel, 20K oil change intervals, they backed down from that one didn't they.
My own $.02 which isn't worth much is just because Porsche recommends something doesn't mean its the best...they have marketing strategies and corporate kickbacks to use products. Remember, as good as the design is, and as much as we like our Pigs, this is still the company that gave us Plastic Coolant pipes, the wonderful Center driveshaft support bearing, Scored cylinders on many, etc... I could go on and on on other Porsche models, IMS bearings, Cam belt tensioners... So just because Porsche recommends something I don't take it as Gospel, 20K oil change intervals, they backed down from that one didn't they.
05-17-2013, 02:46 PM
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I get that there are threads on this subject. And I did perform a search and what I found was a lot of outdated info. from 2009, etc. In fact I even posted a link to another thread that has a lot of data on this subject.
I want to see what the latest is on this subject, and what everyone is using based on the info in the other threads.
I happened to be due for an oil change, so I wanted to see as of today Friday, May 17th 2013 what is everyone using in their Cayennes.....
BTW - the oil is getting changed this very minute with Mobil1 0w-40.. the oil was black when I checked it, and was making a clanking, valve-tapping sound at idle and I didn't want to wait any longer to change it, so I went with what's recommended in the manual. Going forward, I will probably order Redline racing oil 0w-40 since its a full 100% ester-based synthetic. My conclusion is that even if it is more expensive it is good insurance against cylinder scoring, etc... especially if you plan to keep your Cayenne for a long time. Compare the flash point and other specs with other oils and you will see. If you believe other than this let me know what you think.
http://www.redlineoil.com/product.aspx?pid=126&pcid=21
I want to see what the latest is on this subject, and what everyone is using based on the info in the other threads.
I happened to be due for an oil change, so I wanted to see as of today Friday, May 17th 2013 what is everyone using in their Cayennes.....
BTW - the oil is getting changed this very minute with Mobil1 0w-40.. the oil was black when I checked it, and was making a clanking, valve-tapping sound at idle and I didn't want to wait any longer to change it, so I went with what's recommended in the manual. Going forward, I will probably order Redline racing oil 0w-40 since its a full 100% ester-based synthetic. My conclusion is that even if it is more expensive it is good insurance against cylinder scoring, etc... especially if you plan to keep your Cayenne for a long time. Compare the flash point and other specs with other oils and you will see. If you believe other than this let me know what you think.
http://www.redlineoil.com/product.aspx?pid=126&pcid=21
05-17-2013, 02:58 PM
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05-17-2013, 03:58 PM
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Drifting
Hi,
hutchingsp - This thread has developed very well indeed. I hope I can remain objective!
Firstly, Porsche have ALWAYS had long OCIs, ever since they started building cars and engines for sale - from around 1955! Over 50 years!!!
Secondly I don’t believe that Porsche were foolish in establishing the two years and 32kkms (20k miles) maximum OCI service policy when using their Approved and Listed lubricants.
Some other Euro engine makers have done so too
It serves to remind us that we are using a very valuable resource and that their research has shown that the Approved and Listed lubricants will do the job very well indeed - any of the 100 or so on the their List! In our near future we will see two or more years or “lifetime” fill become commonplace across a raft of engine manufacturers!
It is interesting to note that Porsche carried out a systematic and well controlled UOA programme in NA commencing with MY02 and continued it for some years. They will have data that we can but dream about! They do NOT set services intervals at levels that would impact on Warranty and/or durability
I also carried out testing commencing some years ago to prove/disprove Porsche’s policy after a well known Porsche service provider in California (and another here in Sydney) promoted the “fallacy” of it and that his subjective and wrong policy of 3k miles OCI regardless was correct! My testing to establish the point (see RENNLIST 928 Forum - search “Oil Condition Report”) over nearly four years showed that the 20kkms (12k miles) or two year OCI is actually very conservative! This programme is continuing amongst some 928 owners here in OZ with records going into my database
For those persons who don’t agree with the (any) engine’s manufacturer, they can simply use UOAs to establish an OCI that they feel comfortable with - it’s as simple as that really
For many, the real problem with UOAs is in the interpretation - especially the level and source of wear metals. Many chase “spooks” in this area! Some people still believe that single pass UOAs with different lubricants will tell a true wear history of the engine and how good/bad a lubricant is!
As we know (and have done for 60 years or so) , UOAs are excellent tool for determining the OCI in most machinery - and it is always wise to remember that wear metals are accumulative! As an example I have run many of my very expensive ($45000) engines with iron at up to 150ppm when at the lubricant’s condemnation point - and their overall durability has been really exceptional. Some engines are now at 2m kms (1.24m miles) without a rebuild!
Both Porsche and Benz in this country (and in Germany) are very happy with the performance of M1 0w-40 which is mandatory in OZ - and Benz have much local data to back it up! Their average OCI is around 18k kms!
My CLK Benz (on M1 0w-40) has a “reactive” service indicator and it runs at around 15k-17k OCIs
As for other lubricants, the Porsche Approved List contains around 100 Brands/versions and around 80% are of 5w-40 viscosity - the balance are 0w-40 viscosity. There is only one SAE50 lubricant, Mobil 1 5w-50! I believe that they will all perform about the same and I am very sure that Porsche know this.
The performance margins from one to another in engine life/durability and etc. will be VERY minor indeed!
Technicians from Stuttgart (some ex the 1960-1970s racing programme) that I have spent time with are adamant that M1 0w-40 is “the” lubricant for all road going Porsches - and they use it for racing too in late series engines!
I have yet to hear of an engine using M1 0w-40 that has suffered any sort of measurable “excessive” wear or lubricant related issue - from Porsche, Benz or Mobil - or from any owners! I have seen a number of high “mileage” Porsche and Benz engines that have used this lubricant from new and they have all been internally clean, consumption low and with no discernible wear being evident in the valve train region
M1 0w-40 sells here within a price range of from $65 to $95 for a 5 litre pack. Porsche charges about $25 for a filter
My use of a non Approved 5w-40 synthetic lubricant in my Porsche is based on past history - and with the approval of Porsche here in OZ. They know my history quite well! I know the history of their M96 engine too. And, I am fully aware about the structure and performance of the lubricant after many years of use and I purchase it in "bulk"
I live in the Tropics too where an average cold start in summer is 27C and in winter about 10C - maximum ambient is over 40C and humidity can be 90%>
With MY2007 cars Porsche will pull the two years point back to one year - this is due to the conversion of all engine families to Direct Injection (DI) from that point! A 0w-40 viscosity lubricant will still be the only one permitted in the twin turbo V8 engine family!
I am retired and I do NOT have an affiliation with any Oil Company. I selectively use Mobil, Castrol and Shell lubricants in my vehicles
Now, being totally objective, it is wise to remember that there really is no magic lubricant!
Regards
Doug
hutchingsp - This thread has developed very well indeed. I hope I can remain objective!
Firstly, Porsche have ALWAYS had long OCIs, ever since they started building cars and engines for sale - from around 1955! Over 50 years!!!
Secondly I don’t believe that Porsche were foolish in establishing the two years and 32kkms (20k miles) maximum OCI service policy when using their Approved and Listed lubricants.
Some other Euro engine makers have done so too
It serves to remind us that we are using a very valuable resource and that their research has shown that the Approved and Listed lubricants will do the job very well indeed - any of the 100 or so on the their List! In our near future we will see two or more years or “lifetime” fill become commonplace across a raft of engine manufacturers!
It is interesting to note that Porsche carried out a systematic and well controlled UOA programme in NA commencing with MY02 and continued it for some years. They will have data that we can but dream about! They do NOT set services intervals at levels that would impact on Warranty and/or durability
I also carried out testing commencing some years ago to prove/disprove Porsche’s policy after a well known Porsche service provider in California (and another here in Sydney) promoted the “fallacy” of it and that his subjective and wrong policy of 3k miles OCI regardless was correct! My testing to establish the point (see RENNLIST 928 Forum - search “Oil Condition Report”) over nearly four years showed that the 20kkms (12k miles) or two year OCI is actually very conservative! This programme is continuing amongst some 928 owners here in OZ with records going into my database
For those persons who don’t agree with the (any) engine’s manufacturer, they can simply use UOAs to establish an OCI that they feel comfortable with - it’s as simple as that really
For many, the real problem with UOAs is in the interpretation - especially the level and source of wear metals. Many chase “spooks” in this area! Some people still believe that single pass UOAs with different lubricants will tell a true wear history of the engine and how good/bad a lubricant is!
As we know (and have done for 60 years or so) , UOAs are excellent tool for determining the OCI in most machinery - and it is always wise to remember that wear metals are accumulative! As an example I have run many of my very expensive ($45000) engines with iron at up to 150ppm when at the lubricant’s condemnation point - and their overall durability has been really exceptional. Some engines are now at 2m kms (1.24m miles) without a rebuild!
Both Porsche and Benz in this country (and in Germany) are very happy with the performance of M1 0w-40 which is mandatory in OZ - and Benz have much local data to back it up! Their average OCI is around 18k kms!
My CLK Benz (on M1 0w-40) has a “reactive” service indicator and it runs at around 15k-17k OCIs
As for other lubricants, the Porsche Approved List contains around 100 Brands/versions and around 80% are of 5w-40 viscosity - the balance are 0w-40 viscosity. There is only one SAE50 lubricant, Mobil 1 5w-50! I believe that they will all perform about the same and I am very sure that Porsche know this.
The performance margins from one to another in engine life/durability and etc. will be VERY minor indeed!
Technicians from Stuttgart (some ex the 1960-1970s racing programme) that I have spent time with are adamant that M1 0w-40 is “the” lubricant for all road going Porsches - and they use it for racing too in late series engines!
I have yet to hear of an engine using M1 0w-40 that has suffered any sort of measurable “excessive” wear or lubricant related issue - from Porsche, Benz or Mobil - or from any owners! I have seen a number of high “mileage” Porsche and Benz engines that have used this lubricant from new and they have all been internally clean, consumption low and with no discernible wear being evident in the valve train region
M1 0w-40 sells here within a price range of from $65 to $95 for a 5 litre pack. Porsche charges about $25 for a filter
My use of a non Approved 5w-40 synthetic lubricant in my Porsche is based on past history - and with the approval of Porsche here in OZ. They know my history quite well! I know the history of their M96 engine too. And, I am fully aware about the structure and performance of the lubricant after many years of use and I purchase it in "bulk"
I live in the Tropics too where an average cold start in summer is 27C and in winter about 10C - maximum ambient is over 40C and humidity can be 90%>
With MY2007 cars Porsche will pull the two years point back to one year - this is due to the conversion of all engine families to Direct Injection (DI) from that point! A 0w-40 viscosity lubricant will still be the only one permitted in the twin turbo V8 engine family!
I am retired and I do NOT have an affiliation with any Oil Company. I selectively use Mobil, Castrol and Shell lubricants in my vehicles
Now, being totally objective, it is wise to remember that there really is no magic lubricant!
Regards
Doug
05-17-2013, 04:17 PM
#14
Drifting
I get that there are threads on this subject. And I did perform a search and what I found was a lot of outdated info. from 2009, etc. In fact I even posted a link to another thread that has a lot of data on this subject.
I want to see what the latest is on this subject, and what everyone is using based on the info in the other threads.
I happened to be due for an oil change, so I wanted to see as of today Friday, May 17th 2013 what is everyone using in their Cayennes.....
BTW - the oil is getting changed this very minute with Mobil1 0w-40.. the oil was black when I checked it, and was making a clanking, valve-tapping sound at idle and I didn't want to wait any longer to change it, so I went with what's recommended in the manual. Going forward, I will probably order Redline racing oil 0w-40 since its a full 100% ester-based synthetic. My conclusion is that even if it is more expensive it is good insurance against cylinder scoring, etc... especially if you plan to keep your Cayenne for a long time. Compare the flash point and other specs with other oils and you will see. If you believe other than this let me know what you think.
http://www.redlineoil.com/product.aspx?pid=126&pcid=21
I want to see what the latest is on this subject, and what everyone is using based on the info in the other threads.
I happened to be due for an oil change, so I wanted to see as of today Friday, May 17th 2013 what is everyone using in their Cayennes.....
BTW - the oil is getting changed this very minute with Mobil1 0w-40.. the oil was black when I checked it, and was making a clanking, valve-tapping sound at idle and I didn't want to wait any longer to change it, so I went with what's recommended in the manual. Going forward, I will probably order Redline racing oil 0w-40 since its a full 100% ester-based synthetic. My conclusion is that even if it is more expensive it is good insurance against cylinder scoring, etc... especially if you plan to keep your Cayenne for a long time. Compare the flash point and other specs with other oils and you will see. If you believe other than this let me know what you think.
http://www.redlineoil.com/product.aspx?pid=126&pcid=21
Mobil 1 Warranty below:
Mobil 1
Limited Warranty
What the Warranty Covers
ExxonMobil Fuels, Lubricants & Specialties Marketing Company, a division of Exxon Mobil Corporation (“ExxonMobil”), provides this limited warranty to the purchasers who use Mobil 1™ lubricant in their vehicles. This limited warranty covers the lubricant and critical engine parts lubricated by the lubricant. ExxonMobil warrants its lubricants to be free from defects and that the lubricant you purchased will protect your vehicle’s critical engine parts from oil related failure.
Be advised that if your vehicle is covered by a warranty, you should follow the vehicle’s oil life sensor or the oil change interval recommended in your owner’s manual to avoid a disruption in your vehicle warranty. Follow your owner’s manual if the vehicle is operated in any of the following severe services: racing or commercial applications including taxis, limousines, etc.; frequent towing or hauling; extremely dusty or dirty conditions; or under excessive idling conditions.
What the Warranty Does Not Cover
This Limited Warranty excludes:
Mobil™ lubricants used in mechanically deficient equipment as a result of abnormal operation; negligence; abuse; damage from casualty, shipment or accident; or, equipment modification done without written authorization from the original equipment manufacturer (“OEM”).
Situations where the OEM required lubricant standards do not match those stated by ExxonMobil without written approval from ExxonMobil.
Mobil lubricants that have been used in conjunction with any other product or additive that has not been authorized for use by ExxonMobil.
Failure of equipment due to a pre-existing condition that is unrelated to the use of Mobil lubricants.
Repair or replacement of equipment due to normal wear.
What the Period of Coverage Is
The Mobil 1 limited warranty is valid for 10,000 miles or your vehicle’s OEM recommended oil change interval, whichever is longer.
Additional requirements for all Mobil 1 products include:
Oils must be put in service not later than five (5) years from the date of purchase; and
an oil change must be completed every twelve (12) months.
What We Will Do to Correct Problems
ExxonMobil will replace any lubricant that is defective. In addition, if there is equipment failure due to the lubricant you purchased, and the engine was serviceable at the time the oil was installed, ExxonMobil will repair any equipment damage directly caused by a defect or malfunction of the lubricant, at no cost to you, provided that the lubricant was selected and maintained in accordance with specifications of the OEM or the written instructions (which includes product packaging) of ExxonMobil.
How You Can Get Service
To file a claim under this Limited Warranty, you must:
Upon discovery of the damage (but not later than six (6) months from the date the damage occurred) call 1-800-AskMobil.
Allow an ExxonMobil representative to examine the equipment and maintenance records, if available, and provide proof of purchase to determine the extent of the damage and to confirm that the lubricant was the cause.
Allow an ExxonMobil representative to obtain an oil sample from the engine for oil analysis at no cost to you to assist in determining the cause of the equipment failure.
How State Law Relates to the Warranty
This warranty gives you specific legal rights, and you may also have other rights, which vary from state to state.
The remedy provided here will be your only recovery against ExxonMobil. You will not be able to recover incidental damages (for example, transportation costs to and from the ExxonMobil representative for inspection of the equipment, loss of use, towing charges, bus fare, car rentals or other incidental damages) or consequential damages (the cost of repairing or replacing other property which was damaged when the lubricant was defective). Some states do not allow the exclusion of or limitation of incidental or consequential damages, so the above limitation or exclusion may not apply to you.
Limited Warranty
What the Warranty Covers
ExxonMobil Fuels, Lubricants & Specialties Marketing Company, a division of Exxon Mobil Corporation (“ExxonMobil”), provides this limited warranty to the purchasers who use Mobil 1™ lubricant in their vehicles. This limited warranty covers the lubricant and critical engine parts lubricated by the lubricant. ExxonMobil warrants its lubricants to be free from defects and that the lubricant you purchased will protect your vehicle’s critical engine parts from oil related failure.
Be advised that if your vehicle is covered by a warranty, you should follow the vehicle’s oil life sensor or the oil change interval recommended in your owner’s manual to avoid a disruption in your vehicle warranty. Follow your owner’s manual if the vehicle is operated in any of the following severe services: racing or commercial applications including taxis, limousines, etc.; frequent towing or hauling; extremely dusty or dirty conditions; or under excessive idling conditions.
What the Warranty Does Not Cover
This Limited Warranty excludes:
Mobil™ lubricants used in mechanically deficient equipment as a result of abnormal operation; negligence; abuse; damage from casualty, shipment or accident; or, equipment modification done without written authorization from the original equipment manufacturer (“OEM”).
Situations where the OEM required lubricant standards do not match those stated by ExxonMobil without written approval from ExxonMobil.
Mobil lubricants that have been used in conjunction with any other product or additive that has not been authorized for use by ExxonMobil.
Failure of equipment due to a pre-existing condition that is unrelated to the use of Mobil lubricants.
Repair or replacement of equipment due to normal wear.
What the Period of Coverage Is
The Mobil 1 limited warranty is valid for 10,000 miles or your vehicle’s OEM recommended oil change interval, whichever is longer.
Additional requirements for all Mobil 1 products include:
Oils must be put in service not later than five (5) years from the date of purchase; and
an oil change must be completed every twelve (12) months.
What We Will Do to Correct Problems
ExxonMobil will replace any lubricant that is defective. In addition, if there is equipment failure due to the lubricant you purchased, and the engine was serviceable at the time the oil was installed, ExxonMobil will repair any equipment damage directly caused by a defect or malfunction of the lubricant, at no cost to you, provided that the lubricant was selected and maintained in accordance with specifications of the OEM or the written instructions (which includes product packaging) of ExxonMobil.
How You Can Get Service
To file a claim under this Limited Warranty, you must:
Upon discovery of the damage (but not later than six (6) months from the date the damage occurred) call 1-800-AskMobil.
Allow an ExxonMobil representative to examine the equipment and maintenance records, if available, and provide proof of purchase to determine the extent of the damage and to confirm that the lubricant was the cause.
Allow an ExxonMobil representative to obtain an oil sample from the engine for oil analysis at no cost to you to assist in determining the cause of the equipment failure.
How State Law Relates to the Warranty
This warranty gives you specific legal rights, and you may also have other rights, which vary from state to state.
The remedy provided here will be your only recovery against ExxonMobil. You will not be able to recover incidental damages (for example, transportation costs to and from the ExxonMobil representative for inspection of the equipment, loss of use, towing charges, bus fare, car rentals or other incidental damages) or consequential damages (the cost of repairing or replacing other property which was damaged when the lubricant was defective). Some states do not allow the exclusion of or limitation of incidental or consequential damages, so the above limitation or exclusion may not apply to you.