Orion03

Please help me out guys, I am looking at an Australian delivered 997, and it's VIN is: WP0ZZZ99Z5S701374

I put that into the IMS porsche settlement website: http://www.imsporsch...om/porsche-vin/

and I get:

Summary:Model: Porsche 911 (997)
Manufacture Year: 2005
Assembly Plant: Stuggart
Last Five Digits: 01374
Conclusion:This is not a Class Vehicle.

Does this mean this 997 has the larger updated IMS bearing? i.e. the class action is for the smaller IMS bearing that fails?

Does the fact that it's an Australian car effect the VIN number?

thanks.

ATLDiver

Since I've started looking into buying a pre-owned 911 I've of course stumbled onto this topic from multiple sources. Right now I just flat out confused and a bit gun-shy on the whole brand due to this. I see the true published numbers which are low but really would like to get a firmer handle on this issue before plunging into buying one.

I just started casually looking and educating myself on the platform so excuse my novice questions. So somewhere in '05 Porsche went to a revised IMS to supposedly solve the problem but not completely? The new revised IMS is not compatible with LN' 'fix' and you still have the sidewall problem in the block? So for someone in the market I have three options...

1: Buy a M96 997 or late 996 with the IMS 'fix' installed.
2: Buy a M97 997 and be super-diligent with maintenance?
3: Don't buy a Porsche.

Am I missing something here other than buying a '09 or later model which is not really in my budget?

mgordon18

Welcome to Rennlist, ATLDiver!

You're not missing much, however:

a) The number of IMS issues on post-mid-2005-manufactured cars approaches zero. So far we only have anecdotal or 2nd hand evidence of failures on the bigger, upgraded bearings.

b) Your terminology is a bit flawed. The M96 and M97 engines were not sequential in their production timeframes. They were produced in parallel. The M96 is in all the 3.6L (i.e. non-S) engines; the M97 is in all the 3.8L (S) engines throughout the 997.1 production years (2005-2008). M97 engines don't, by definition, have the upgraded bearings. Both engines received the bearing update as a running change sometime in 2005.

ATLDiver

Thanks mgordon, I'm trying to be as logical as possible without emotions locking me in. Also, thanks for the correction on the m96/m97 differences but its still a bit confusing. Is there a code I can look for in the VIN that would be a clear indicator; likely I'll be looking for a non-S but I won't rule it out. So in the 997.1 engines there really no 'fix' but little evidence of there being the same IMS problem. Do I have that right?

mgordon18

"997.1" refers to ALL 997s produced between 2005 and 2008. "997.2" cars start with the minor styling update in 2009 (which also included the completely new engine with the IMS engineered out altogether). The 997.1 cars include M96 engines on the Carrera and M97 engines on the Carrera S. The larger bearings started appearing in both M96 and M97 engines in early 2005.

The older bearings have a higher rate of failure but can be preemptively "fixed" with the LN solution. The newer bearings are, for all intents and purposes, unserviceable, but have a much lower rate of failure (as I mentioned above, the failure rate approaches zero).

You can look at engine numbers (NOT the VIN) to help determine whether or not the car you're looking at has the new bearings or the old. You can search this forum to find the engine number break point. The easiest way to tell, though, is to look at the manufacture date, found on a sticker on side of the driver's side door, toward the bottom. Cars manufactured before February of 2005 probably have the old bearings. Cars manufactured after March 2005 probably have the new bearings. Feb/Mar cars are a toss up, as no one is 100% sure when the switchover took place.

BTW, there's also some argument as to what's a better strategy: fix an old bearing set, or bet on a new bearing set. That's up to you to decide.

ATLDiver

Ok, that all makes sense. What about cars with replaced engines, are this post new IMS?

Orion03

How about the engine number 69502654, is this with the small single bearing?

Thanks.

997_rich

Many people ask about what bearing they have so I made up a quick graphic to help. This chart is for 997 only, not 996 etc. Can the group please check for accuracy. I believe I have it right at this point.

Spoddle

^ Nice chart. It looks accurate to me.

ATLDiver

Thanks Rich, that's a good visual. So what it comes down to is the actual numbers of failures of the larger, non-replacible unit. From what I've read online the rate of failures after this 'fix' are almost non-existent, do I have this correct?

Seems to me it's almost better to have the smaller unit that you can install the fix in. From what I've read, this is even more robust than the revised unit post early '05. Again, do I. Have anything wrong here?

Orion03

Looks very nice, thank you. Assuming those engine numbers are as accurate as possible that means the car I am looking at has the smaller bearing.

That's my understanding as well.

Thank you all for the great work.

heinz57

I am new to the Porsche world, is this IMS problem also an issue on the 997.1 Turbos with the Mezger engine?

Orion03

from what I have read... NO. The turbo engines are based on the oil cooled 964 engines and do not have the IMS bearing issue.

atx.911

I too am thinking about buying a 997 06-08. Do we have any confirmed failures for 997's 06-08 ? I tried reading the entire thread but started getting headaches from my concussion..long story for another thread.

ATLDiver

As a person looking in the same range as you, my research shows there are some confirmed failures reported here and other boards but the numbers are very small compared to the smaller units. What's not conclusive is if this was the result of other issues resulting in the IMS failing, i.e. RMS leaking and owners not keeping up on maintenance.

The post early '05's still have the this cylinder wall issue that has caused problems hence why you still see LN Enginnering 'Nickels' talked about. In full disclosure, I'm not 100% positive on all this either just what I've pieced together from here and other sites. I talked to a good friend of mine that's owned two Boxsters, a '02 and a '07 and never had heard of these issues; nor had he had any problems. Take that for what's it worth.

The take away I have is that the IMS is an issue that plagues roughly 7% of 99-early '05's but I don't believe it's a big of an issue as some report. Some post '05's have had failures but its unclear as to what, if any, contributing factors were present.

Confused? Yep, so am I.