996 Turbo engine question
10-21-2010, 07:37 PM
#61
Race Director
Just to add a little more fodder to the ever raging oil debate. Most people here are worried that the inexpensive diesel oil will not work in their high performance car due to the higher heat and higher rpm...
Here is my personal experience with that scenario. Im not sure how familiar you are with today's hi-tech 4 cycle motocross engines, but they are direct descendants of F1 technology. Wrap your brain around this for a moment.... Titanium valves, Ti springs, slipper pistons and 450cc turning 10,000 RPM. Those of you who scoff at a dirt bike having any comparison to the beloved 911 need not worry. The little 450cc bike produces more HP per CC than the 3.6l turbo.... Yep, the 450 makes 52hp in stock form. 8.6hp per cc. The 3600cc turbo made 450hp, or 8hp per cc.
I ran Wal-Mart bought Shell Rotella 15/40 in all of my race bikes and never had an engine failure. Granted, I would change the oil frequently because it was cheap, but 9 times out of 10 it would come out as clean as when it went in. The Honda 450 had a sight glass so you could see the oil, and there was never an instance of the dreaded foaming. Surely, an engine that turns 10G's and is bouncing off the rev limiter every lap would be hard on oil??
Anyway, dont be afraid of running diesel oil, Im not.
Here is my personal experience with that scenario. Im not sure how familiar you are with today's hi-tech 4 cycle motocross engines, but they are direct descendants of F1 technology. Wrap your brain around this for a moment.... Titanium valves, Ti springs, slipper pistons and 450cc turning 10,000 RPM. Those of you who scoff at a dirt bike having any comparison to the beloved 911 need not worry. The little 450cc bike produces more HP per CC than the 3.6l turbo.... Yep, the 450 makes 52hp in stock form. 8.6hp per cc. The 3600cc turbo made 450hp, or 8hp per cc.
I ran Wal-Mart bought Shell Rotella 15/40 in all of my race bikes and never had an engine failure. Granted, I would change the oil frequently because it was cheap, but 9 times out of 10 it would come out as clean as when it went in. The Honda 450 had a sight glass so you could see the oil, and there was never an instance of the dreaded foaming. Surely, an engine that turns 10G's and is bouncing off the rev limiter every lap would be hard on oil??
Anyway, dont be afraid of running diesel oil, Im not.
In Bike (UK published motorcycle mag) not too many years ago was an article on a motorcycle messager who really racked up the miles. I forget how many miles but some of his motorcycles racked up over several hundreds of thousands of miles and he had gone through many motorcycles. (I can't recall the various makes but they were multi-cylinder 4-stroke touring style motorcycles, almost all chain drive, though had had a few shaft drives in the mix.)
He'd average 3K to 5K miles per week, day in, day out.
Most times he got real good life out his motorcycles. He lost a few to crashes and one was so uncomfortable (vibration IIRC) he traded it in for something else.
He changed the oil in his motorcycle's engine every weekend. But he never used motorcycle oil but cheaper car oil. Still "good" oil but not as good as the premium oil specified for the motorcycles he used.
But the way he used the motorcycles, coupled with of course using not too bad an oil, and the change interval, and the engines would just last and last and last.
Same for this diesel oil vs. gas oil debate. I could probably run the diesel oil and have no troubles. But someone who perhaps uses his vehicle less, or more, or at least drives his vehicle harder at higher revs for longer periods of time, maybe with not as short of change interval as I follow, might not have as good a luck.
However, to each to his own. If someone wants to run a diesel engine oil in his Turbo I guess that's his business.
Sincerely,
Macster.
10-21-2010, 09:01 PM
#62
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Macster it seems like you don't endorse Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel Truck from the sounds of it..
I'm going to paste here a clip from the Mobil engineer.
I'm going to paste here a clip from the Mobil engineer.
10-21-2010, 09:50 PM
#63
I moved from 0w-40 to 5w-40 2+ years ago...oil use fell 30%. Recently went to 5w-50...using 1/10th qt per 1000mi now. Was 1qt per 1100 mi more or less.
More quiet. Yada Yada Yada.
5w-50 is great stuff. Not sure why it is so hard to fine in the USA. I have been told that the Castrol 5w50 is not up to the task...but I'd confirm with Kevin.
Anyway, Kevin is correct here 100%. He's not making a dime on this advice guys...to the contrary, he would love you guys to need new engines..... He is a good guy and is trying to help us all out. Thank you Kevin!!!
Jeff
More quiet. Yada Yada Yada.
5w-50 is great stuff. Not sure why it is so hard to fine in the USA. I have been told that the Castrol 5w50 is not up to the task...but I'd confirm with Kevin.
Anyway, Kevin is correct here 100%. He's not making a dime on this advice guys...to the contrary, he would love you guys to need new engines..... He is a good guy and is trying to help us all out. Thank you Kevin!!!
Jeff
10-22-2010, 12:57 PM
#64
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Just for the record, Delvac 1, Delvac 1 ESP, Mobil 1 TDT oil are dual rated oils that carry both API ratings for gas and diesel engines.
There are diesel-only oils that are not rated for gasoline engines.
BD
There are diesel-only oils that are not rated for gasoline engines.
BD
10-22-2010, 01:33 PM
#65
Burning Brakes
Hey Guys-
Not sure this is the best place, but I just ID'd a place in northern California for Mobil 1 products:
Mobil DELVAC 75W90
Mobil 1 5W50
Both these are NEVER available at auto parts places, always specialty shops.
Redwood Coast Petroleum
3111 Depot Road
Hayward, CA
Unfortunately only sell cases, so I have tranny fluid for life (4 gallons)
But restocked on 5w50.
A
Not sure this is the best place, but I just ID'd a place in northern California for Mobil 1 products:
Mobil DELVAC 75W90
Mobil 1 5W50
Both these are NEVER available at auto parts places, always specialty shops.
Redwood Coast Petroleum
3111 Depot Road
Hayward, CA
Unfortunately only sell cases, so I have tranny fluid for life (4 gallons)
But restocked on 5w50.
A
10-25-2010, 04:22 PM
#66
Rennlist Member
Would the Diesel Oil be reccomended for a Boxster S engine or only the turbocharged engines?
I change my oil 2x per year. I put ~10k per year on the car and do one DE or Autocross per summer.
The car is the daily driver 4 days per week for 9 months of the year.
I change my oil 2x per year. I put ~10k per year on the car and do one DE or Autocross per summer.
The car is the daily driver 4 days per week for 9 months of the year.
10-25-2010, 09:39 PM
#67
Race Director
Anyway the car averaged over 40mpgs, in all kinds of driving. Intake remained free of coking so common with that engine especially when lesser oils were used.
But simultaneously (I bought the Boxster in Jan 2002 and the TDi in March 2002) I ran an engine oil specifically intended for gasoline engines in my Boxster and have done so now for over 236K miles and I don't see any reason to mess with success. Therefore I can't endorse using a diesel (compression ignition) engine oil for a gasoline (spark ignition) engine.
But if someone wants to use a diesel engine oil and -- hopefully -- the oil at least agrees/meets with the oil requirements put forth by Porsche then that's his call.
Sincerely,
Macster.
10-25-2010, 10:33 PM
#68
Turbo Diesel Truck Oil was originally called "Porsche Racing Team Super Lemans Oil 5w-40 RS type" but they got paid off by nascar to do the diesel thing.
Let's just hope Walmart never hears about that...the stuff is 23$ for 5 qt jugs....
It is fine for our turbos.
Jeff
Let's just hope Walmart never hears about that...the stuff is 23$ for 5 qt jugs....
It is fine for our turbos.
Jeff
10-28-2010, 05:05 PM
#70
Burning Brakes
I just switched over to M1 5w40 Turbo Diesel Truck today from 5w50 after 3k miles on the M1 5w50. The car seems to run more smoothly- but I could be imagining things.
I figure I'll run it for 3k miles over the winter, compare oil analysis on the two oils, and then determine which one to stick with.
I do like that the diesel oil has more ZDDP in it... And the fact I can buy it locally rather than pay an arm and a leg for shipping.
I figure I'll run it for 3k miles over the winter, compare oil analysis on the two oils, and then determine which one to stick with.
I do like that the diesel oil has more ZDDP in it... And the fact I can buy it locally rather than pay an arm and a leg for shipping.
10-28-2010, 05:26 PM
#71
Rennlist Member
I switched as well. Watching oil consumption carefully, car does seem a bit quieter. I'm in the middle of changing plugs and coils now...I should be good to go for a while now!
Kevin, thanks for all the advice!
Kevin, thanks for all the advice!
10-29-2010, 11:40 PM
#72
Burning Brakes
I just switched over to M1 5w40 Turbo Diesel Truck today from 5w50 after 3k miles on the M1 5w50. The car seems to run more smoothly- but I could be imagining things.
I figure I'll run it for 3k miles over the winter, compare oil analysis on the two oils, and then determine which one to stick with.
I do like that the diesel oil has more ZDDP in it... And the fact I can buy it locally rather than pay an arm and a leg for shipping.
I figure I'll run it for 3k miles over the winter, compare oil analysis on the two oils, and then determine which one to stick with.
I do like that the diesel oil has more ZDDP in it... And the fact I can buy it locally rather than pay an arm and a leg for shipping.
The noise at idle is WAAAY quieter... Like, it startled me that I couldn't hear the "rattle." This is after driving a while, when the noise used to be pretty noticeable.
Now, when I rev the motor to 1k, I can hear the noise, and above 1k it goes away again. With the 5w50 I could hear it at idle and at 1k, and it would go away when revved over 1k.
I was surprised at this- and I will keep you all posted if anything changes.
Oh, and when I cut my filter apart I didn't find a single spec of metal.
10-30-2010, 01:19 AM
#73
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Paul it is feedback like this that brings alot of people to threads like this.
There is a additive in the 5W40 Turbo Diesel Truck oil that is helping the chain and gear noise. Folks in heavy diesel engine there are very large gears turning multiple accessories like 300 and 400 amp alternators or 20HP A/C compressors. I for one have a 515HP Detroit Diesel engine that is running Mobil!
Back to what Paul is saying the oil shear protection is "very" good with the Mobil TDT oil. With the heat and added stress that the oil cooled turbochargers place on the oil, this oil is doing it's job.
Judd, you don't have the stresses that the turbo engines have. IF you track your car it would benificial for you to go to a higher weight. Increasing the oil changes per year is going to be the single most important thing that we can do for our engines. This includes every Porsche owner.
Paul can you take a picture of your cut open filter and post it?
There is a additive in the 5W40 Turbo Diesel Truck oil that is helping the chain and gear noise. Folks in heavy diesel engine there are very large gears turning multiple accessories like 300 and 400 amp alternators or 20HP A/C compressors. I for one have a 515HP Detroit Diesel engine that is running Mobil!
Back to what Paul is saying the oil shear protection is "very" good with the Mobil TDT oil. With the heat and added stress that the oil cooled turbochargers place on the oil, this oil is doing it's job.
Judd, you don't have the stresses that the turbo engines have. IF you track your car it would benificial for you to go to a higher weight. Increasing the oil changes per year is going to be the single most important thing that we can do for our engines. This includes every Porsche owner.
Paul can you take a picture of your cut open filter and post it?
10-30-2010, 11:16 AM
#75
Burning Brakes
Paul it is feedback like this that brings alot of people to threads like this.
There is a additive in the 5W40 Turbo Diesel Truck oil that is helping the chain and gear noise. Folks in heavy diesel engine there are very large gears turning multiple accessories like 300 and 400 amp alternators or 20HP A/C compressors. I for one have a 515HP Detroit Diesel engine that is running Mobil!
Back to what Paul is saying the oil shear protection is "very" good with the Mobil TDT oil. With the heat and added stress that the oil cooled turbochargers place on the oil, this oil is doing it's job.
Judd, you don't have the stresses that the turbo engines have. IF you track your car it would benificial for you to go to a higher weight. Increasing the oil changes per year is going to be the single most important thing that we can do for our engines. This includes every Porsche owner.
Paul can you take a picture of your cut open filter and post it?
There is a additive in the 5W40 Turbo Diesel Truck oil that is helping the chain and gear noise. Folks in heavy diesel engine there are very large gears turning multiple accessories like 300 and 400 amp alternators or 20HP A/C compressors. I for one have a 515HP Detroit Diesel engine that is running Mobil!
Back to what Paul is saying the oil shear protection is "very" good with the Mobil TDT oil. With the heat and added stress that the oil cooled turbochargers place on the oil, this oil is doing it's job.
Judd, you don't have the stresses that the turbo engines have. IF you track your car it would benificial for you to go to a higher weight. Increasing the oil changes per year is going to be the single most important thing that we can do for our engines. This includes every Porsche owner.
Paul can you take a picture of your cut open filter and post it?