996 prices are on the rise. - Page 5 - Rennlist Discussion Forums



996 prices are on the rise.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 03-16-2017, 05:23 PM   #61
murphyslaw1978
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
murphyslaw1978's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 2,723
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by b3freak View Post
^^^ I agree.

Look at my value estimate that I posted on the popular 1999 Carrera. And basically, unless you have a "concours grade" pristine car that's virtually in like-new condition... or maybe a "Raby" modified, then these cars are depreciating further.
Im with you guys, except I really don't see where these cars are depreciating any further.
murphyslaw1978 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2017, 05:35 PM   #62
fpena944
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
fpena944's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 8,744
Default

Well they can only go so low. I mean they still need to stay above the cost of a used Boxster so just by virtue of that and the Porsche name there's a bottom limit.
fpena944 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2017, 05:53 PM   #63
sugarwood
User
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 359
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnireland View Post
Leasing has replaced purchasing with the returns after 2 or 3 years being shuffled off to the auction lots.
Only 25% of cars are leased.

As for brands vs lease rates,
Porsche has identical lease ratio as Honda
BMW has identical lease ratio as Lexus


sugarwood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2017, 09:29 PM   #64
johnireland
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
johnireland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Sherman Oaks, CA
Posts: 1,596
Default

My sources say that people don't want to take the depreciation hit on a $100,000 dollar car that they are going to trade back in within 3 years for the next model. The purchase makes no sense to them. They modern Porsche buyer keeps the miles well below the lease limits and most new Porsche 911s will never see a 30k service from the first owner.
johnireland is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2017, 06:51 AM   #65
robert090
User
 
robert090's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: San Francisco, CA 94110
Posts: 19
Default

I agree here, it is all about the demand and supply. We should be wise in choosing our car, be it buying or leasing new one.
robert090 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2017, 07:25 AM   #66
AWDGuy
User
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 874
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by m3driver View Post
Nobody pays book value, so the prices on there really don't reflect the market for any vehicle
my 02 C4S has a valued of $16 000 on the used vehicle information package (UVIP) from ontario.

I wish I paid $16k. lol
AWDGuy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2017, 11:40 AM   #67
b3freak
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
b3freak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Another time, another place
Posts: 2,220
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AWDGuy View Post
my 02 C4S has a valued of $16 000 on the used vehicle information package (UVIP) from ontario.

I wish I paid $16k. lol
Yea, I feel ya! For some reason, the 2002 C4S is depreciating more on a steady decline, but still a good used one has an average retail value of $25,000. What does that mean for high mileage p-cars?... it means you're looking at around $17,500 retail on average... which also means, if you trade it in, you're going to see dealer offers around $12,000. Big OUCH!!! If you don't like to take that kind of hit on resell, then either auction it off on eBay or BAT, or try your hand at Craigslist. Personally, Craigslist is probably one of the most frustrating methods of selling a car. Lots of tire kickers wanting to test drive your car with no intention of purchasing it.

Overall, as 996 owners, we have to keep things in perspective. Porsche sold a butt-load of these cars during the 996 era. Porsche has said in spite of the criticism, the 996 was one of the best selling 911 cars ever. That's great for Porsche but bad for the collectors market. However, most people that buy these cars are not like the Ferrari crowd that may drive them only a few times a year and keep them locked up in a temperature/humidity controlled warehouses. Modern Porsche owners drive the hell out of their cars which means only the concours grade, limited versions (e.g. GT3RS) are going to appreciate in the near future. But don't be fooled, if you have the intention to make some profit down the road, now is the time to buy the 996.

I give you a personal example. When I was a kid living in Atlanta, my father's neighbor bought a beautiful black 1976 Carrera Turbo for about (if I remember correctly), $30,000. That was an insane amount money for a car in the 70s'. After about a year, he offered to sell it to my father for just $14,000. My father being a more practical car guy, thought that was too much to pay for even a used sports car and so he made the decision to pass on the deal. Today, those cars sell consistently at auction for well over a $150,000.

Last edited by b3freak; 03-18-2017 at 12:19 PM.
b3freak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2017, 11:47 AM   #68
Bash Hat
User
 
Bash Hat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 288
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnireland View Post
My sources say that people don't want to take the depreciation hit on a $100,000 dollar car that they are going to trade back in within 3 years for the next model. The purchase makes no sense to them. They modern Porsche buyer keeps the miles well below the lease limits and most new Porsche 911s will never see a 30k service from the first owner.
But isn't a lease just exactly that? You're paying for the depreciation with your monthly lease payment. I'd imagine a new 911 lease payment would be somewhere north of $1000/month. So you'd pay $36k over the life of the lease plus the $5k or so initial down payment. The same as buying new and taking a $40k (or less) hit if selling after 3 years. There's no way a dealer is losing money on a lease. A buyer would take less of a hit by purchasing over leasing a car.
Bash Hat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2017, 12:56 PM   #69
Oregoncoaststi
User
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 47
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bash Hat View Post
But isn't a lease just exactly that? You're paying for the depreciation with your monthly lease payment. I'd imagine a new 911 lease payment would be somewhere north of $1000/month. So you'd pay $36k over the life of the lease plus the $5k or so initial down payment. The same as buying new and taking a $40k (or less) hit if selling after 3 years. There's no way a dealer is losing money on a lease. A buyer would take less of a hit by purchasing over leasing a car.
I tend to agree with this statement, with a lease it's like an expensive 3 year test drive , option to purchase after, but you have already paid the depreciation, and yes the dealer never loses money, ever
Oregoncoaststi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2017, 11:59 PM   #70
johnireland
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
johnireland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Sherman Oaks, CA
Posts: 1,596
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bash Hat View Post
But isn't a lease just exactly that? You're paying for the depreciation with your monthly lease payment. I'd imagine a new 911 lease payment would be somewhere north of $1000/month. So you'd pay $36k over the life of the lease plus the $5k or so initial down payment. The same as buying new and taking a $40k (or less) hit if selling after 3 years. There's no way a dealer is losing money on a lease. A buyer would take less of a hit by purchasing over leasing a car.
Using your numbers...let's imagine a $100000 new 911. plus t & l at 10% and you are at $110k.

Put $22000 down and you have a balance of $88,000. Imagine you got that balance from Porsche Credit at 0% for 60 months...that comes to $1466 per month. Do that for 36 months (before you trade the car in) and you've spent $52800 plus the $20k down...and after 36 months you're into the car for $72800....and with $20k cash up front.

Now your lease is $5k to get the car and I'm going to figure a lease payment including sales tax of $1375 (more than you estimated). Now that comes to $54,500 in 36 months...that is $18300 less than the purchase and it required 75% less at the drive off.

If you are keeping a car for 36 months, leasing is by far a better way to go, and that is why so many do.
johnireland is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2017, 12:48 AM   #71
Cosmo Kramer
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
Cosmo Kramer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: SW Ontario
Posts: 3,646
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AWDGuy View Post
my 02 C4S has a valued of $16 000 on the used vehicle information package (UVIP) from ontario.

I wish I paid $16k. lol
Shows how off those UVIP's are my 2002 C2 Cabriolet was valued at 19k wholesale!
Cosmo Kramer is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2017, 10:02 AM   #72
murphyslaw1978
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
murphyslaw1978's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 2,723
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnireland View Post
Using your numbers...let's imagine a $100000 new 911. plus t & l at 10% and you are at $110k.

Put $22000 down and you have a balance of $88,000. Imagine you got that balance from Porsche Credit at 0% for 60 months...that comes to $1466 per month. Do that for 36 months (before you trade the car in) and you've spent $52800 plus the $20k down...and after 36 months you're into the car for $72800....and with $20k cash up front.

Now your lease is $5k to get the car and I'm going to figure a lease payment including sales tax of $1375 (more than you estimated). Now that comes to $54,500 in 36 months...that is $18300 less than the purchase and it required 75% less at the drive off.

If you are keeping a car for 36 months, leasing is by far a better way to go, and that is why so many do.
Correct - leasing is betting on what the depreciation will be. It's a numbers game. That's said, in rare cases, it might make sense to purchase instead of lease. For cars that have higher than normal residual value.
murphyslaw1978 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2017, 11:32 AM   #73
sugarwood
User
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 359
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnireland View Post
Using your numbers...let's imagine a $100000 new 911. plus t & l at 10% and you are at $110k.

Put $22000 down and you have a balance of $88,000. Imagine you got that balance from Porsche Credit at 0% for 60 months...that comes to $1466 per month. Do that for 36 months (before you trade the car in) and you've spent $52800 plus the $20k down...and after 36 months you're into the car for $72800....and with $20k cash up front.

Now your lease is $5k to get the car and I'm going to figure a lease payment including sales tax of $1375 (more than you estimated). Now that comes to $54,500 in 36 months...that is $18300 less than the purchase and it required 75% less at the drive off.

If you are keeping a car for 36 months, leasing is by far a better way to go, and that is why so many do.
This is a very incomplete analysis of leasing. It only looks at monthly payments.
It's like saying owning a house with a $1200 mortgage is worse than renting a house for $1100.
Guess what, when you retire, you get to sell that $700k house and make a lot of that money back.

You totally ignored the fact that when you're making payments on a purchased car, you're building equity in the car.

At 0%, every dollar you pay goes towards equity. That entire $72k you've spent is still 100% your equity.
The $54k spent leasing is 100% lost money as you do not own the asset.

You should really edit your hypothetical to factor in what the car is worth upon sale at 3 years old.
You need to consider what the $110k car is worth after 3 years, and factor in that you have $72k of equity in the car, b/c when you sell it, the net proceeds are yours.

There is no free lunch, and Porsche does not subsidize leases. You are not sidestepping depreciation by leasing. It is baked into the lease (rental) terms.
sugarwood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2017, 11:52 AM   #74
808Bill
User
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 611
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sugarwood View Post
This is a very incomplete analysis of leasing. It only looks at monthly payments.
It's like saying owning a house with a $1200 mortgage is worse than renting a house for $1100.
Guess what, when you retire, you get to sell that $700k house and make a lot of that money back.

You totally ignored the fact that when you're making payments on a purchased car, you're building equity in the car.

At 0%, every dollar you pay goes towards equity. That entire $72k you've spent is still 100% your equity.
The $54k spent leasing is 100% lost money as you do not own the asset.

You should really edit your hypothetical to factor in what the car is worth upon sale at 3 years old.
You need to consider what the $110k car is worth after 3 years, and factor in that you have $72k of equity in the car, b/c when you sell it, the net proceeds are yours.

There is no free lunch, and Porsche does not subsidize leases. You are not sidestepping depreciation by leasing. It is baked into the lease (rental) terms.
And how much did you put down on that $700K house to get your payments to $1200.00
808Bill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2017, 01:14 PM   #75
Bash Hat
User
 
Bash Hat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 288
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnireland View Post
Using your numbers...let's imagine a $100000 new 911. plus t & l at 10% and you are at $110k.

Put $22000 down and you have a balance of $88,000. Imagine you got that balance from Porsche Credit at 0% for 60 months...that comes to $1466 per month. Do that for 36 months (before you trade the car in) and you've spent $52800 plus the $20k down...and after 36 months you're into the car for $72800....and with $20k cash up front.

Now your lease is $5k to get the car and I'm going to figure a lease payment including sales tax of $1375 (more than you estimated). Now that comes to $54,500 in 36 months...that is $18300 less than the purchase and it required 75% less at the drive off.

If you are keeping a car for 36 months, leasing is by far a better way to go, and that is why so many do.

You're missing one important detail. Resale value. Just for ****z and giggles I priced out a base model 911 lease. $1199/month with $7199 down. After 3 years you will have paid a total of $50,363. KBB values a 2015 911 (currently 3 yrs old) at $73,367. Assuming I buy with $0 down and have a 3 yr loan, I pay $2932/month or a total of $105,552. I sell the car for $73,367 after 3 years then the car cost me $32,185 to own for the 3 years. By buying I am $18,178 better off. And that's assuming turning in the lease with no over mileage or damage charges.

There's a reason dealers love leases. They make more $$$ on them.

To clarify, I used a base 911 price of $92,500 with 9% sales tax and 3% int rate.

Last edited by Bash Hat; 03-19-2017 at 01:39 PM.
Bash Hat is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Question on which models may appreciate best from here? sharknose General Porsche Discussions Forum 2 01-05-2017 08:11 PM
Stop Sale is the cause of current Premiums on Cost of GT cars? The New 911 991 GT3 GT3RS and 911R 18 07-01-2016 03:01 AM
968 Part supply ihoe 924/931/944/951/968 Forum 4 11-03-2015 02:21 AM
Will Porsche re-price the GT4? matttheboatman GT4 22 10-12-2015 09:49 PM
Thinking of buying a 996 Tim_944 996 Forum 22 07-03-2015 02:13 PM


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -3. The time now is 01:30 PM.


Copyright ę 1998 - 2015 Rennlist.com
 
  • Ask a Question
    Get answers from community experts
What's your question?
Send