Ruf 993
10-19-2009, 08:47 PM
#31
8th Gear
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All I know is. The only accident damage to the red ruf that Macca has shown all the documented knowledge of was not a "wreck" or a pig.
It is the only damage to the car in it's history. And the damage was minimal, It should have never been de registered. I do not understand why the car wasn't fixed by the insurance company in the first place.
The fact that Macca has the green to buy anything he wishes is not the issue, I am sure he has worked his *** off to get there. I am not envious as I too would like to be in that position one day. I call that motivation.
These are cool cars, There arn't a lot of factory ruf's of any year, They need to be fixed cherrished and maintained. I think brian is just putting the value back in the car in not forgetting that.
Regards
Alx
ps look forward to that P car event and a few beers!!
It is the only damage to the car in it's history. And the damage was minimal, It should have never been de registered. I do not understand why the car wasn't fixed by the insurance company in the first place.
The fact that Macca has the green to buy anything he wishes is not the issue, I am sure he has worked his *** off to get there. I am not envious as I too would like to be in that position one day. I call that motivation.
These are cool cars, There arn't a lot of factory ruf's of any year, They need to be fixed cherrished and maintained. I think brian is just putting the value back in the car in not forgetting that.
Regards
Alx
ps look forward to that P car event and a few beers!!
10-19-2009, 08:49 PM
#32
Rennlist Member
Thanks Kiwi carguy and 993Man for your comments.
Alx. Regards the removal of your comments - thank you for that. Obviously made in the heat of the moment and I dont hold them against you. I agree with the rest of your views regards price and history. I only posted to set the record straight before someone in our community possibly made an un informed decision. To be fair to yourself and Brian I was probably too "emotive" in the wording of my initial post - I guess it was an "opinion" more than a statement of facts (which have followed insubsequent posts). The crux of my post was my opinion the car has bad "ju ju". I still stick by that but its a personal view only.
Yes the car in P&911 World for 90k pounds is indeed the same. Im not sure but sugget it could have been a speculative dealer in CHCH. The RUF CTR you refer to is a much more powerful and comprehnisve beast and the most collectable RUF of the 993 series/era. 190 euro is top ask and I think its been on the market a fair while. These still change hands for around 120 euro or less from time to time.
Point of conjecture on wether the vehicle is more original than it came to NZ. After an engine detonation, rebuild, an accident/write off and rebuild, a colour change and replacemnet front bumper, rear wiper delete etc my opinion on this differs from yours.
Anyway welcome to the community mate. Quite a memorable entrance but to be honest we need a bit of spirited debate around. All good.
Brian.
Thanks you for posting those pictures of the RUF ex factory. Facinating as I had never seen those before. I did speak to Alois wife in germany when I as doing my due diligence on this car and she promised to send me some ore info but I never did recieve it. Are the pictures taken in the RUF factory or Mr Chows Top Marque upon delivery in Singapore? I ask because I have been to both premise and it looks remarkably like Chows place - Im sure thats a singaporean chinese in the background LOL!
Im not aware of Daniel having problems with the EKS but as you say the information is available to correct the issues. Its a fairly straight forward system. Did you know that 10 anniversary (of Porsche in Singapore) C4S 993 were delivered there in 1997 with EKS from the porsche factory? Not a well known fact. most have now been retrofited with third pedal. Not a difficult job from what I understand talking to Stuttgart motors over there. The Dr who owned the RUF BTR Cab had issues with EKS. Peter from motorscience recalls more than me. They flshed some new software but I thik it may have been the positioning micro switch playing up as you indicate and is more often the issue.
Regards your comments on jealousy and being burnt etc. Ill let you get away wit that because you do not know me. If you did and had any dealing with me you would know quite the contrary. I do my due diligence very well and have never been burnt even when importing the 993RS, GT3, M5 etc from Singapore or the 968 from Japan. Id like to think I know a bit about the 993 (10 years of ownership) and indeed you will find my 993, my 993RS and about 30 pictures of my cars and some 1000 words of input (specialist topics such as M150 dirty fuel options etc) in Adrian Streathers 993 book. In terms of being able to have afford the RUF - again Ill put that down to the fact you dont know who I am. Lets just say Ive had three opportunities over the last 5 years to acquire the car (for as low as 105-8k when I was helping 993Man was look at it late last year). To be perfectly honest it WAS a car I was interested in owning 8 years ago but not today. I dont think I would own a RUF in NZ today (well all 3 993 RUFs have had interesting histories in NZ) now I know what I know - but thats not to say they arent great cars.
I concur with Kiwi Carguy that not every repair is equal. Chassis alignment, pick up point calibration, factory seam welds replication etc are all tricky areas - I guess you have guys in Nelson good enough for the task. I trust my work to one Porsche Approved repairer in Auckland - not to say hey are the best in the country - Im sre there are specialist restorers that are better - but for such high end kit its nice to have the benfit of experience. Im sure the work on your car is fine. I havent seen it myself. When Im next visiting NZ Id love to.
Regards the sill treatment. I meant no malice. I did recognise on the first posters scans on one of your pictures that there had been some fabrication here. The angle of curvature seemed off - but that may have just been my eyes. Ive spend many 100s of hours working around/on/under the 993 (including my own restortation to concours a few years back at Stefans place - Haslers). I conceed I may be totally incorrect here - just seemed worth asking the question.
Brian - best of luck with the sale. I hope you sell this car to ease your family burden and that the new owner appreciates it for what it is. I have no doubt that you will make good from the sale but my personal opinion is that you are well over priced for the local market. Your competion in the sale of this vehcile is and will always be a NZ new 993TT which will vie for your audiences attention. Luckily there arent may available right now with the cheapest Im aware of being 120kish nzd....
Cheers and best
Alx. Regards the removal of your comments - thank you for that. Obviously made in the heat of the moment and I dont hold them against you. I agree with the rest of your views regards price and history. I only posted to set the record straight before someone in our community possibly made an un informed decision. To be fair to yourself and Brian I was probably too "emotive" in the wording of my initial post - I guess it was an "opinion" more than a statement of facts (which have followed insubsequent posts). The crux of my post was my opinion the car has bad "ju ju". I still stick by that but its a personal view only.
Yes the car in P&911 World for 90k pounds is indeed the same. Im not sure but sugget it could have been a speculative dealer in CHCH. The RUF CTR you refer to is a much more powerful and comprehnisve beast and the most collectable RUF of the 993 series/era. 190 euro is top ask and I think its been on the market a fair while. These still change hands for around 120 euro or less from time to time.
Point of conjecture on wether the vehicle is more original than it came to NZ. After an engine detonation, rebuild, an accident/write off and rebuild, a colour change and replacemnet front bumper, rear wiper delete etc my opinion on this differs from yours.
Anyway welcome to the community mate. Quite a memorable entrance but to be honest we need a bit of spirited debate around. All good.
Brian.
Thanks you for posting those pictures of the RUF ex factory. Facinating as I had never seen those before. I did speak to Alois wife in germany when I as doing my due diligence on this car and she promised to send me some ore info but I never did recieve it. Are the pictures taken in the RUF factory or Mr Chows Top Marque upon delivery in Singapore? I ask because I have been to both premise and it looks remarkably like Chows place - Im sure thats a singaporean chinese in the background LOL!
Im not aware of Daniel having problems with the EKS but as you say the information is available to correct the issues. Its a fairly straight forward system. Did you know that 10 anniversary (of Porsche in Singapore) C4S 993 were delivered there in 1997 with EKS from the porsche factory? Not a well known fact. most have now been retrofited with third pedal. Not a difficult job from what I understand talking to Stuttgart motors over there. The Dr who owned the RUF BTR Cab had issues with EKS. Peter from motorscience recalls more than me. They flshed some new software but I thik it may have been the positioning micro switch playing up as you indicate and is more often the issue.
Regards your comments on jealousy and being burnt etc. Ill let you get away wit that because you do not know me. If you did and had any dealing with me you would know quite the contrary. I do my due diligence very well and have never been burnt even when importing the 993RS, GT3, M5 etc from Singapore or the 968 from Japan. Id like to think I know a bit about the 993 (10 years of ownership) and indeed you will find my 993, my 993RS and about 30 pictures of my cars and some 1000 words of input (specialist topics such as M150 dirty fuel options etc) in Adrian Streathers 993 book. In terms of being able to have afford the RUF - again Ill put that down to the fact you dont know who I am. Lets just say Ive had three opportunities over the last 5 years to acquire the car (for as low as 105-8k when I was helping 993Man was look at it late last year). To be perfectly honest it WAS a car I was interested in owning 8 years ago but not today. I dont think I would own a RUF in NZ today (well all 3 993 RUFs have had interesting histories in NZ) now I know what I know - but thats not to say they arent great cars.
I concur with Kiwi Carguy that not every repair is equal. Chassis alignment, pick up point calibration, factory seam welds replication etc are all tricky areas - I guess you have guys in Nelson good enough for the task. I trust my work to one Porsche Approved repairer in Auckland - not to say hey are the best in the country - Im sre there are specialist restorers that are better - but for such high end kit its nice to have the benfit of experience. Im sure the work on your car is fine. I havent seen it myself. When Im next visiting NZ Id love to.
Regards the sill treatment. I meant no malice. I did recognise on the first posters scans on one of your pictures that there had been some fabrication here. The angle of curvature seemed off - but that may have just been my eyes. Ive spend many 100s of hours working around/on/under the 993 (including my own restortation to concours a few years back at Stefans place - Haslers). I conceed I may be totally incorrect here - just seemed worth asking the question.
Brian - best of luck with the sale. I hope you sell this car to ease your family burden and that the new owner appreciates it for what it is. I have no doubt that you will make good from the sale but my personal opinion is that you are well over priced for the local market. Your competion in the sale of this vehcile is and will always be a NZ new 993TT which will vie for your audiences attention. Luckily there arent may available right now with the cheapest Im aware of being 120kish nzd....
Cheers and best
10-19-2009, 08:55 PM
#33
Burning Brakes
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Hey Kiwi car guy,
Speaking of assumptions is it really fair for him to say my car is a pig? Lets be honest here that would get any Porsche enthusiasts back hairs up.
Perhaps it is "jinxed" I don't know, it might be that it does not like the #7 engine (its car #6). I have engine #6, perhaps I should swap them?
All I know is its been nothing but a positive experience from the purchase thru the rebuild to the driving.
Lastly thanks for your explanation about my listing/intentions, I just didnt want to advertise what can be interpreted as a huge negative, Their is no hiding anything the plate is on the photo, anyone can do a carjam, and I have given full disclosure to all interested parties that contact me directly. I do commend you on your diplomatic approach. I have added a disclosure to my adds.
I'm highly motivated to keep this car, so if anyone is interested in my 98 C2S LHD, I'm prepared to do a 2 year lease with option to buy (because I cant legally sell it for 2 more years in NZ without changing it to RHD) please contact me.
Best of luck with your Saker.
Cheers
Brian
Speaking of assumptions is it really fair for him to say my car is a pig? Lets be honest here that would get any Porsche enthusiasts back hairs up.
Perhaps it is "jinxed" I don't know, it might be that it does not like the #7 engine (its car #6). I have engine #6, perhaps I should swap them?
All I know is its been nothing but a positive experience from the purchase thru the rebuild to the driving.
Lastly thanks for your explanation about my listing/intentions, I just didnt want to advertise what can be interpreted as a huge negative, Their is no hiding anything the plate is on the photo, anyone can do a carjam, and I have given full disclosure to all interested parties that contact me directly. I do commend you on your diplomatic approach. I have added a disclosure to my adds.
I'm highly motivated to keep this car, so if anyone is interested in my 98 C2S LHD, I'm prepared to do a 2 year lease with option to buy (because I cant legally sell it for 2 more years in NZ without changing it to RHD) please contact me.
Best of luck with your Saker.
Cheers
Brian
The car will sell on it's own merits. Advertise it fair and square at a fair market price and that's all you can do.
Interesting about the engine numbers???
In all Macca, myself and others keep tabs on most P-Cars globally that are of interest. You never know one day when one of us or YOU may be looking to buy something like the black RUF shown earlier and we can share some knowledge of it. That, I am sure you would be appreciative of. I know I would be!
10-19-2009, 09:51 PM
#34
Intermediate
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Those photos were sent from RUF Germany, but I agree with you, it looks like an Asian in the background and the the other pics don't indicate a clean perfect workshop as one sees from any videos or photos of the RUF factory.
Another interesting thing to know about EKS is that SAAB in 1995 installed it on the SAAB 900 TURBO and called it SENSORMATIC, it is the exact same sachs hydrolic/electric unit brain and sensors as the RUF.
I would be interested to hear your opinions on an engine change (e.g. swap car 7 engine for car 6 engine) so they both have matching engine/chassis numbers. It would be interesting to find out if that's the way they left the RUF factory.
and lastly thanks to both you guys for making it a little more comfortable around here, makes it a more inviting place to contribute too.
Cheers
Brian
Another interesting thing to know about EKS is that SAAB in 1995 installed it on the SAAB 900 TURBO and called it SENSORMATIC, it is the exact same sachs hydrolic/electric unit brain and sensors as the RUF.
I would be interested to hear your opinions on an engine change (e.g. swap car 7 engine for car 6 engine) so they both have matching engine/chassis numbers. It would be interesting to find out if that's the way they left the RUF factory.
and lastly thanks to both you guys for making it a little more comfortable around here, makes it a more inviting place to contribute too.
Cheers
Brian
10-20-2009, 09:22 AM
#36
Rennlist Member
Hi Brian.
Its all making sense. First of all the engine number issue you mentioned had me stumped but then your recently added signature clarified the situation. I see you also bought the BTR2 container Cab which was wrecked/damaged in Hamilton a month or so back. I understand why you might want to move the red RUF on now...
Im not a huge fan of cabs personally but I think out of the two cars this is the one I would more want to own. Its had a less eventful life. I would keep the engine numbers right where Alios put them - after all factory 993 chassis numbers and engine numbers dont match so why try to get the RUF ones to. Just my thoughts on the subject.
If you can get your asking price for the Red car - heck you get a free BTR cab plus enough to cover all the work to fix her up. A free car! I take my hat off to you mate, its a cunning plan. Good on you...
I recall the cab making big horsepower when mods and boost were turned up a bit (as tested in a NZ Motor Mag). The green/red BTR was just factory standard 420 bhp when it had the off as I understand it. If thats still the case then Id just leave everything in situ. The blue car has better ju ju in my opinion :-)
Best of luck with the project. Sounds like you have your hands full. Id be interesting i which of the two cars you prefer when you have finished....
Cheers
Its all making sense. First of all the engine number issue you mentioned had me stumped but then your recently added signature clarified the situation. I see you also bought the BTR2 container Cab which was wrecked/damaged in Hamilton a month or so back. I understand why you might want to move the red RUF on now...
Im not a huge fan of cabs personally but I think out of the two cars this is the one I would more want to own. Its had a less eventful life. I would keep the engine numbers right where Alios put them - after all factory 993 chassis numbers and engine numbers dont match so why try to get the RUF ones to. Just my thoughts on the subject.
If you can get your asking price for the Red car - heck you get a free BTR cab plus enough to cover all the work to fix her up. A free car! I take my hat off to you mate, its a cunning plan. Good on you...
I recall the cab making big horsepower when mods and boost were turned up a bit (as tested in a NZ Motor Mag). The green/red BTR was just factory standard 420 bhp when it had the off as I understand it. If thats still the case then Id just leave everything in situ. The blue car has better ju ju in my opinion :-)
Best of luck with the project. Sounds like you have your hands full. Id be interesting i which of the two cars you prefer when you have finished....
Cheers
10-20-2009, 04:20 PM
#37
Intermediate
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Hi Macca, I can tell you now I prefer the Coupe, its lighter and they look better.
To clarify the CAB was damaged in a minor way and not by a container, yes something fell on the soft top and damaged that including the RH door top and the windshield. I have a complete door coming from UK and I'm looking for a nice Black CAB soft top in the states at present to replace the tan one. The car is completely drivable and I personally brought it down here across the ferry.
An opportunity presented itself and I have the knowledge, overseas contacts and confidence to make it happen.
Their is no "cunning plan" I bought the Red RUF for myself and the CAB for my daughter, who also loves porches and always has wanted a convertible, I'll be converting the EKS to a normal clutch.
Look for my C2s for lease/sale shortly. I'm sure you will have fun trying to knock that too.
To clarify the CAB was damaged in a minor way and not by a container, yes something fell on the soft top and damaged that including the RH door top and the windshield. I have a complete door coming from UK and I'm looking for a nice Black CAB soft top in the states at present to replace the tan one. The car is completely drivable and I personally brought it down here across the ferry.
An opportunity presented itself and I have the knowledge, overseas contacts and confidence to make it happen.
Their is no "cunning plan" I bought the Red RUF for myself and the CAB for my daughter, who also loves porches and always has wanted a convertible, I'll be converting the EKS to a normal clutch.
Look for my C2s for lease/sale shortly. I'm sure you will have fun trying to knock that too.
Last edited by bcaway; 10-20-2009 at 07:01 PM.
10-20-2009, 08:55 PM
#41
Rennlist Member
Hi Grant. Yeah. Dont mess with us Kiwis mate - you know how we are only seperated by 2 degrees! Your wife could be my brothers wifes sister for all we know... ;-P
Hi Brian,
To the contrary I think the lease/sale idea for the C2S isnt a bad one. The price has to be right though as its LHD and also some people will want instant gratification. The market for a clean lowish km NZ new RHD C4S in NZ sits at around 90k when all said and done. Occassionally one gos for mid to low 80s. A mint clean low low Km silver car on TM (1997 build) just sold for 83k cash sight unseen - thats probably top of market for a C2 - but it was in beautiful original condition that car (helped the owner with sourcing). The best RHD C2S Ive seen for sale in last few years sold in mid 08 for around 90k. Theres a strong imported C4Sin white on TM at the moment for 62k (6 speed) with highish km - its agood car last time I saw it but that was a few years back. A good buy at around 58-60k I would have thought. Pricing to entice a buyer for a LHD in NZ with 2 year provision will likely be around 60k ish my guess dependant on mielage and condition etc. You could strat at 70k if its a real minter and see where that leads. Just a thought....
Luck.
Hi Brian,
To the contrary I think the lease/sale idea for the C2S isnt a bad one. The price has to be right though as its LHD and also some people will want instant gratification. The market for a clean lowish km NZ new RHD C4S in NZ sits at around 90k when all said and done. Occassionally one gos for mid to low 80s. A mint clean low low Km silver car on TM (1997 build) just sold for 83k cash sight unseen - thats probably top of market for a C2 - but it was in beautiful original condition that car (helped the owner with sourcing). The best RHD C2S Ive seen for sale in last few years sold in mid 08 for around 90k. Theres a strong imported C4Sin white on TM at the moment for 62k (6 speed) with highish km - its agood car last time I saw it but that was a few years back. A good buy at around 58-60k I would have thought. Pricing to entice a buyer for a LHD in NZ with 2 year provision will likely be around 60k ish my guess dependant on mielage and condition etc. You could strat at 70k if its a real minter and see where that leads. Just a thought....
Luck.
Last edited by Macca; 10-20-2009 at 10:16 PM.
10-20-2009, 09:45 PM
#43
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No Macca,
I'm American, but really love your country, its beautiful in NZ, we try to get 2 summers in a year by commuting. My only negative is the road surfaces here are less than ideal, especially with all the stone chips, but a small price to pay for the fantastic places to drive, my favorites being thru otago and mt cook areas.
I'm American, but really love your country, its beautiful in NZ, we try to get 2 summers in a year by commuting. My only negative is the road surfaces here are less than ideal, especially with all the stone chips, but a small price to pay for the fantastic places to drive, my favorites being thru otago and mt cook areas.
10-21-2009, 09:00 AM
#44
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uh-huh!
Brian.......the coils are the blue ones that came with the PSS-9 kit from Gert.....I am not sure who makes them for Bilstein..........they are being progressivley firmed up as I go faster in the car......................or do I go faster as they get firmed up????????.....................anyway, you get the idea!
Macca........I am sure my wife is your cousins, daughters aunties niece...........she looks just like you! :-) And to be perfectly honest with you, I want to take all yur Porches off you guys...............I simply cant stand another year of losing the Rugby............no, seriously.......I cant stand it! :-((
Macca........I am sure my wife is your cousins, daughters aunties niece...........she looks just like you! :-) And to be perfectly honest with you, I want to take all yur Porches off you guys...............I simply cant stand another year of losing the Rugby............no, seriously.......I cant stand it! :-((
10-21-2009, 06:31 PM
#45
Burning Brakes
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Hi Brian,
Just FYI it is from my understanding actually illegal to lease the vehicle if it is under the 4 year rule. Check the LTSA fact sheet online. It's in there I just don't have time to find it.
I'm not saying you shouldn't do it but merely making you aware to be cautious in doing so and not advertise the fact to blatantly. Unfortunately NZ is a VERY finicky market and things like imports, colour change, US car etc etc all hurt the value and make any car harder to sell with less buyers.
Thankfully with P-cars its a global market.
Just FYI it is from my understanding actually illegal to lease the vehicle if it is under the 4 year rule. Check the LTSA fact sheet online. It's in there I just don't have time to find it.
I'm not saying you shouldn't do it but merely making you aware to be cautious in doing so and not advertise the fact to blatantly. Unfortunately NZ is a VERY finicky market and things like imports, colour change, US car etc etc all hurt the value and make any car harder to sell with less buyers.
Thankfully with P-cars its a global market.