bcaway

Hi Guys,

I usually peruse pelican forums (same id) so this is my 1st time over here on rennlist. so go easy on me.

I just thought it would be fair to voice some accurate facts about my car, all of which i can backup with evidence. In addition I feel some of the comments made about my car require some clarification for accuracy, its easy for people to voice their uninformed opinions.

Firstly some history about me,
I have loved 911's since I was 16,
I bought my 1st car 15 years ago (1974 911 S 2.7 - I since restored it and upgraded the engine to a 3.2) I always loved the 993 shape, and finally purchased my 1st 98 C2S wide body 3 years ago midnight blue, black leather, fab speed everything. Love the look and sound of this car!

The RUF
I had always wanted a RUF and my intention was to rebuilt it to my high standards to keep for myself. That being said, no corners were cut and no expense spared as I wanted this car to be right for my own peace of mind. This is also the main reason I personalized it for myself (I like the turbo bumper much better, and if you look at more recent RUF's they also use the turbo bumpers) in addition I also removed the fiberglass side skirts are not to my taste, and are not original (I have the original photos from RUF as the car was delivered without them) yes these side skirts are for sale and were not damaged other than minor paint scufs. I do like the rear wing (even tho its not RUF original)

I have disclosed the damage history to anyone that has expressed interest in the car and has contacted me directly. There was no rear damage, the bumper was split when the towies towed the vehicle off the road and dragged the rear bumper, I can show a photo of the rear of 3 993s and the rear lights all look the same and all seem to have rather large gaps. The repair was preformed by a certified repair shop and a high tech car bench was used to ensure the chassis was perfect, in addition the entire front suspension was replaced, I have full documentation (including photos) of the repair, In NZ everything must be completed by a certified repair shop and documented by an engineer, once completed en extensive ministry of transport certification check in completed including alignment, SRS and ABS checks before new registration is allowed.

The car handles perfectly, way better than my 98 C2S. I have a copy of the alignment (we used 993 RS specs) My C2s has billstein HD shocks and eibock coils and feels too stiff and causes it to bounce, but still has body roll with the stock sway bars. It also has some understeer on very tight corners during acceleration. In comparison the RUF has no body roll and feels softer and more comfortable, yet corners precisely like a GT3 I drove on a track. The transition thru a series of 2nd gear s bends is perfect and amazing. I have pushed the RUF and never had any understeer or "rearing up" as described above. There is allot of HP to manage and it takes allot of respect with the throttle, but the result is phenomenal, its absolutely exhilaration to drive.

I dont have any facts about the previous engine history other than what the previous owner told me and all the receipts he provided for the 2 engine rebuilds. (which fyi add up to more that 35k) My understanding was the last 2 rebuilds were due to a hole in the piston, the second time giltraps spent a bunch of money trying to find the cause, and eventually sent for a new ECU from RUF. The car has is running perfect and strong since. The EKS clutch was interesting learning curve, and after talking to RUF in USA and Germany they said they no longer support it and have been retrofitting the OEM pedal clutch. I decided to keep it and try it before I changed it, I'm glad I did as I love the EKS its brilliant when on windy roads, precise and fast. The only downside is slow maneuvering is a little tricky and jerky if you don't get it just right.

Overall its a fantastic car, RUF truly knows what they are doing, they managed to make the chassis handle all that power and also stop extremely well.

My reason for selling:
Unfortunately a recent change in a family health issue has interrupted our lives and we as a family have had to travel twice now overseas at great expense.
This is the only car that I can sell at present, as my C2S is left hand drive and I cant sell in in NZ for another 2 years. It really burns me to have to sell the RUF after all the time and effort I have put into it. Perhaps something will change around the corner and I'll get to keep it.

Sorry this got a little long winded. Feel free to contact me directly if you would like any further information.

Cheers
Brian

alxcar

Hi Macca

I have been browsing this site for ages and love it, but I registered just because I think you are incorrect about the so called wreck and warning people to stay away! What gives you the right to sabbotage someone elses sale when clearly you have no idea how bad the damage was. The auction was what 2-3 months ago and this car is back on the road re certed and vinned ( in NZ this is a huge deal on an accident de registered vehicle) and now for sale. Yeah It must have been a wreck ( yeah right!! )

My Brother and I flew to Auckland to look at this car at the Turners Auction. I find it very interesting that you make such comments about the RUF.
So what if this guy purchased and rebuilt it. I can tell you that the damage looked way worse than it was. The impact on the right front was minimal, and though it looks bad the impact was slow.
Take a good look at the front if it was hit hard don't you think it would have folded like a tin can. The bonnet wasnt even damaged. Also the airbag sensor is on the right front and it didnt set the bags off.

As for the rear the only mark was the tearing of the bumper and a small flatspot on the exhaust flange.

IMO The right side damaged wheel was turned by a third party to make it look worse than it actually was, For me I was gutted when I found out what it sold for. Now it is well and truly out of my reach.

This car is one of 18 factory numbered RUF's I have seen rs carreras with full body restos with entire sections removed and replaced yet they win concourse events and command huge price tags.
This car is genuine I was too late getting the info from RUF for me to bid on it, Had the timing been right I would have owned it and been laughing all the way to the bank.



Alx

Macca

Alxcar

LOL!

Welcome to this board that serves to educate and inform. Quite a first post I must say. Im sure you will win many friends here....

Ive re read my post and I do not take back a word of it. As I say this forum seeks to educate and inform. If I were an enthusiast in the UK and I was tempted by the orignal posters link to this car that isfor sale then I would certainly be informed and educated by the banter that has gone on in this thread. Hey it may have saved me a few bucks and some heart ache too.

The facts are simlple. This car was advertised for 120k nzd 6 months ago before the accident. The car has basically been on the market since Daniel on this forum traded it in. I believe one dealer colour changed it from Adventura Green to red about 12 months ago. I have all the data on the car since it was sold new in Singapore. It was originally imported by Jerry Clayton around 2001. I spoke with Jerry in Singapore regards the car and was lucky enough through Leslie on this board to track back its history to the first and only Singaporean owner. It sat on Jerrys yard in auckland for almost 2 years unsold. There were some issues with it during that time. The work was performed by Giltraps. Danile bought the car and owned it for approx 2 years however it spent a fair bit of time in Jon Potts workshop having a rebuild due to detonation (piston on 2 if I recall).

I have all of the service information/history from both Singaore until 2002/3. After Daniel had the issues he contacted me because I did have an invoice from Giltraps for a wiring loom recall which was material to his claim (it all went legal). Unfortunately I could not find the files in storage at the time. It took daniel a fair while to move that car on. It then sat on and off at dealers over the last 18 months.

So is it a lemon. Who knows. What I do know is that its turned less than 30 k km in the last 7-8 years while in NZ and I believe has cost its respective ownes around $1-2 per km excluding servicing etc.

I have no evidence that the current owner is trying to profiteer from the exercise. However at 155k nzd - 30k over its last list price in NZ before the accident Id say its either helishly optimistic or naiive. The fact that the porsche community in NZ is so small means that unless he exported it as soon as he repaired it and tried selling it from a foreign market it was only a matter of time before someone EDUCATED and INFORMED brought this information to the fore. Perhaps the advert should have run "category 1 repaired to Porsche standards and certified" if that were the case. For all I know the current owner owns a panel shop in Nelson and you are his southern mate! Bit strange everyone is on their first post around here LOL!

As for the rest of your comments - well mate you really do let yourself down. Perhaps you should have a wee think before making immature penile comments on comparing length and girth without stating your own peckers credentials. Regardless its irrelevant.

Enough said.
:-)

Macca

Seems you can still see the original listing for the car 6 months ago here:

http://www.liveupdater.com/ra-cars/L...tID=1541775333

There was another 993 RUF damaged vehcile sold here recently. 993 Blue convertable. Guy in hamilton had it up for sale. It will be interesting to see that one when it re surfaces, who bought it, if they sell it on etc and for what type of price. It I recal that was last advertised on the same site for 129k nzd. Given the appreciation on accident damaged RUFs in NZ these last 6 months my guess is its gotta be worth over 170k nzd by now LOL!

Macca

We all discussed this back a while ago:

https://rennlist.com/forums/993-foru...2-for-35k.html

I still prefer the RUF front bumper, silver wheels and love those techart style side sill extensions over the "resurrection" version.

Cheers

bcaway

Hey Mecca,
One more item you can bolt on your C2, those techart (gemballa?) sills, yours for $500 + shipping.
I'll even include the inner fender plastic linings (which are modified to fit the sills)

FYI: The current sills are the factory 993 sills (part of the body) that were under the fiberglass ones, all I also purchase the two 993 underbody black plastic sills and bolted them up. lastly I replaced the 2 rear inner fender linings to restore back to factory.

alxcar

Hi Macca

Thanks for the welcome. As you state an unfortunate way to make an introduction agreed.
You obviously have quite alot of info on the RUF and are of course voicing your own experienced opinion.
I am just amazed that you would attack someone who is selling their car because you don't like it. Listing photos and over exagerating the damage of the car. What is that about.

You will agree then that all repair work on a de registered accident damaged vehicle has to be certified and inspected by ltnz before any paint applied or for that mater before any body work is even started.
This can not be a short cut process any way you look at it. So you know it has been fixed properly, or it would not be road legal here in NZ.


I flew to Auckland with my brother who is a panelbeater we both looked at the car as well as the 993 bodied 964 purple thing that was there and I am telling you the damage was minimal.
We took the numbers off the right side chassis leg and contacted ruf. the numbers were confirmed as number 6 of 18.

alx

Macca

Hi Alx,

Yes. I know the car very well.
Top Marques in Singapore (RUF official agent) sold the car new. Mr Chow (owner) there supplied me with the first 5 years service history via Jerry C.
I took the car for a Saturday and frankly I liked it. We got close on price (Had been sitting in their showroom over a year by then) but I couldnt get the insurance company to pay ball at a fair cover/premium (looking at my notes from the time cheapest was $2500pa with $1700 excess) so in the end let it go and got the 993 RS instead. I already had the nana 993 C2 below which you referred to in your original post. The car by that stage had had around 3-4k nzd spent on repairs (18 months idol - arived in the country at 10k km approx from memory and I drove it at 11kish).
Daniel bought it after it had been sitting idol for over 2.5 years. He contacted me after the thing detonated. I helped him on the wiring harness issue as I had some documentation regards that and he felt it might have been material to the case he was trying to level agianst gillies. Jon did the work but it was off the road for a year. Cost a fortune too. Daniel got it going but by that stage I think he was over it. Destroying the factory colour scheme didnt enhance its value in my mind either. But that was done later by the next owner/dealer- took some time fo Daniel to move it on.

My opinion is that its cursed. Call me paranoid/superstitious but i wouldnt buy it. id you know that the yellow BTR2 which arrived a year before his one was seriously smashed by its first owner (nearly took his life). That car was bought by Owen Evans and I saw it being rebuilt over about 4-5 years. Not sure where it is these days but it was a BIG job and he did it over stages.

That left the blue cab. Gillies bought it from Mr Chow with 400km on it. It was built 1994/5 but economic resession meant it hadnt moved and was sold to Richard in 1999 who sold it through Gillies Porsche. It had many problems rom being idol for too long. An essentric doctor who owned ast Forward garage bought it and tweaked it beyond by jesus using Mike from Turbo technics to do much of the tunnning - I spoke with him in 2002 about it. He got some massive horsepower out of it. It was a rocket. he had it for sale for years but again no one seemed interested. I think a container was that ones call to the devil and its now lurking in someones garage ready for a ressurection. Pretty car it was too - but seriously who wants to peddle 420 bhp+ rear wheel drive with no tin hat?

Thats teh story I know of the three ex Singapore 993BTR2. 3 of maybe 7 RHD 993 BTR factory RUF vinned cars in the world. One is in Australia - ex Sing to I think - Maratime blue from memory. Porsche guy/nut called Don owned it.

The thing I dont get Brian is this. If you are a porsce enthusiast then you know many of the same lads I do in brdgestone or PCNZ. You would also know we all hand out on TM and watch whats going on. If you were a true enthusiast I guess you do too. So if like all the rest of us kiwis on here, pistonheads, pelicanparts and TM youd seen the car advertised on TM for a year for 119k nzd - then youd seen it advertised on TM as a Turner auction wreck for 50k auction start ad then re advertised 3-4 montsh later for 155k with no explanatation - would you think a). someone was taking the mickey, b) someone was taking the mickey and trying to make alotta money or c) someone was taking the mickey and thought the rest of us were wood ducks.

Now thats all good and fine back in godzone because we all knew you were just trying a). Hey worth a shot. We even brought the car up earlier as you will see from teh link I posted - before you bought it. But when some fellow enthusiast on this board of which Ive been a paying member for most of the last 8 years decides to wax lyrical about the carhes never seen nor knows no history off its probably we best step in to make sure no one gets carried away here without the correct information. Only fair Id say dont you.

Nothing against you Brian by all accounts you sound like a nice guy and a gentleman. You bought a wreck, did some nice work to bring it back to an acceptable level of presentation by the looks and you now need to move it because your family member is sick. No problem. But it didnt sell for 120k, 130k, 140k - heck even the 143k in 2002 I got Jerry to agree with! So I reckon you shoudl disclose its had a bit of an "off" and put it up for 100k and someone who enjoys a sprited drive or a bit of targa will take it off your hands. heck youll still make 20k on the deal and you wont be selling it in three years time...just my opinion of course....!

So there you have it alx. Its not an attack because I dont like the car. Damn right i dont like it but thats my own superstition. This is a community however and once you have joined it you will see - you would do the same as I and the other Kiwis on this board who will no doubt chip in shortly. You will make sure that people are informed and able to make their own decisions with all teh information available to them. Full disclosure. Its a democracy after all.

Cheers

Macca

Brian.

Did you have to weld/fabricate new sill extensions below the rear arches? I noticed on the original sill extensions on this car (from factory) they had cut into sheet metal (had a mesh over them if I remember correct) and was wondering how you had resolved this when deciding not to put the sill extensions on. It looks like you have welded your own on? Curious.

Cheers

alxcar

Hi Macca.

I removed my comment about the tweaks to your car because I was out of line. I would love to own it, I was just venting at the nature of your comments and appologise.

I hope people read all the posts and not just those on page one. The car has a history good and bad. The history is well documented as you have shown and the repair work certified. The engine must be sorted if the guy's in Wellington had anything to do with it. Also documented.

As for the price, I guess it is down to the seller. With more and more people going back to the air cooled cars and prices dropping for the 996's. 150k nzd might be attractive to someone with pounds or euro in their wallet. Tough sell in NZ?, Probably now.

I don't know much about the ruf 964 on trade me but it has been for sale for ages, 100k.

In Porsche World Magazine March 2009, issue 180. There is a ruf 993 for sale from here in NZ for 90 thousand pounds. Is this the same car?

Also same issue there is a 993 ruf ctr 2, for 190,000 euro.

I am pretty sure the yellow ruf btr is in Christchurch.


alx

bcaway

Hi Macca,

As I mentioned above I reverted the sills to the way the car was delivered from RUF (as you can see in these photos taken at RUF factory) This car was delivered with factory 993 sills and no fiberglass bumper "splitters".




I obtained 100mm x 300 mm of the rear bottom corners that were cut from a wrecked 993 tub in the states and the panel shop welded the factory parts back in place here by a professional and documented.

I invite you fly down here and I'll take you for a ride so you can appreciate the car and perhaps show it the respect it deserves.
I'm happy to take it to any reputable shop in the nelson area for a PPI or AA.

If I were to guess I would say you have been burned previously, which hurts, we have all been there at one time or another. If that's not the case, then I detect some resentment that I own a car that you perhaps would like to own, since you seem to collect allot of information about RUF's im guessing you are passionate about owning one like myself.

now back on topic,
You mentioned Daniel has issues with the EKS clutch, which does not surprise me, there is not allot of data out their to support the EKS from Sachs. In addition RUF no longer supports it and recommends reverting to pedal clutch.

I did some extensive research on the Sachs eks and after locating a schematic and some valuable bleeding procedures and slip point setting information. I found an issue with the throttle position sensor mount and fixed that. Then after correctly pressure bleeding the EKS and setting the shift point. I find it works very well and is a pleasure to use. However knowing it is a complex and likely unreliable system its always good to know its a simple procedure to revert to the factory 993 clutch pedal and MC.

If anyone is interested I can post the EKS information on renlist for the few that still use it.

Lastly, I wonder if the piston detonated due to the wrong fuel being used, RUF specifies 98, and if 95 was used pre-detonation would be potentially catastrophic.

Cheers
Brian

Kiwi Carguy

Hi everyone,

Sorry late to the party... Brian and Alx I have to say that you are completely off with your assumptions of Macca. To assume envy is just silly, the guys had a 993RS for goodness sake! If he wanted a RUF he could at anytime buy one. Yes, I am a personal friend of him so know what I am talking about and also that when he posted here it was in the interest of our fellow Rennlisters for fear that they might buy something without full disclosure.

That is really the issue here. To be transparent for all Brian rang me on Sunday and we spoke direct about the car after I asked a question on his auction that he didn't want to answer in the public eye. He seems like a genuine Porsche nut passionate about the marque. Unfortunately though i feel that you should have advertised the BTR with full disclosure.

Should the ad have read that it was an exceptional car one of only 18. Had been in a minor accident with photos and full documentation to verify repairs this thread wouldn't exist.

The concern is that a fellow Rennlister or other could fall in love with the car and buy without being aware that it had been damaged. Only to find out when the car arrived or not at all until later someone recognizes it. i know I'd be peeved if I paid $150NZD on a car only to find out later that it had been damaged repaired. Some people whether its right or not just simply won't buy repaired cars. They have the financial ability to be that picky.

In fairness to Brian when he rang he was very open about the cars history but then he also knew that I knew it's history. Brian I don;t think you have anything to be scared of in marketing the car. I believe it is a stunning car albeit has a jaded history but if the repairs are as stated and the car deserves the coin you are asking the represent as so with full disclosure and documentation. I would certainly be more inclined to buy from someone who is upfront right from the ad than finding out partway through the process.

To clarify another comment. I can assure you their are many cars in NZ that have been accident damaged repaired "through the process" and a far from a satisfactory standard. That is fact and to assume other is naive. I am not suggesting this one is the same but merely commenting on the statement made. There is however a big difference between Porsche standards and others.

Rennlist, Pistonheads etc is all about comradery and community. You will find many threads like this were members are posting in the interest of other members, enthusiasts. Nothing sinister, no jealousy etc etc.

I also looked at this BTR as well as two other RUF's but for various reasons passed on them. I have been in it when Daniel (RUF DAN RUF on here I think) owner it on a Sunday run we went on and also at Manfield racetrack. It is indeed a rocket however I believe part of it's RUF history departed when rebuilt by Powerhaus to their specs and not by RUF. That is no criticism of Powerhaus as they always have serviced my P-cars they are not RUF though.

I wish you all the best with selling the car. I would ask you both to consider you comments and the motive behind those here. I'm sure if we were all at a P-car event chatting things would be slightly different.

Brian it might pay for you to PM a fellow RL'er 911MAN who recently had an off in his 993. You may be able to assist each other in parts and freight.

All the best. KCG

993MAN

I also looked seriously at buying this car, but like Macca I had a stumbling block as well. Not insurance but we just couldn't get the price right....close but not close enough.
I researched the car as well, and after talking to Macca I also now think it needs some holy water sprinkled all over it.
NZ's such a small place which can sometimes be a good thing and sometimes, well, you know what I mean.
It's still an awesome friggin car and the Red is lot better than the original Green. The colour change wouldn't put me off at all after looking at the pictures either.

Kiwi Carguy

To give you an idea of what "happens" here is another RUF that looks lovely.

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Mo...-170947996.htm

911MAN considered buying it until he found out the full story which the seller didn't reveal.

bcaway

Hey Kiwi car guy,

Speaking of assumptions is it really fair for him to say my car is a pig? Lets be honest here that would get any Porsche enthusiasts back hairs up.

Perhaps it is "jinxed" I don't know, it might be that it does not like the #7 engine (its car #6). I have engine #6, perhaps I should swap them?
All I know is its been nothing but a positive experience from the purchase thru the rebuild to the driving.

Lastly thanks for your explanation about my listing/intentions, I just didnt want to advertise what can be interpreted as a huge negative, Their is no hiding anything the plate is on the photo, anyone can do a carjam, and I have given full disclosure to all interested parties that contact me directly. I do commend you on your diplomatic approach. I have added a disclosure to my adds.

I'm highly motivated to keep this car, so if anyone is interested in my 98 C2S LHD, I'm prepared to do a 2 year lease with option to buy (because I cant legally sell it for 2 more years in NZ without changing it to RHD) please contact me.

Best of luck with your Saker.

Cheers
Brian