Ending production
08-31-2014, 01:58 AM
#32
Burning Brakes
Translation: The 991 911 GT3 production is ending. Which will allow for the 991.2 (or 992) GT3 production to start.
Isn't this historically plausible? Especially if we use the 997 generation as a baseline point of comparison.
If I have my numbers right, the 997 (all numbers stock MSRP, no options)
997 Turbo S: 135k USD
997 GT3 RS: 150k USD
So if we project to the 991 generation using the 997 TTS/GT3RS as a ratio:
991 Turbo S: 185k USD
991 GT3 RS: ?
Based on the historical 997 ratios, 235k is a bit high, but not out of the question silly.
Isn't this historically plausible? Especially if we use the 997 generation as a baseline point of comparison.
If I have my numbers right, the 997 (all numbers stock MSRP, no options)
997 Turbo S: 135k USD
997 GT3 RS: 150k USD
So if we project to the 991 generation using the 997 TTS/GT3RS as a ratio:
991 Turbo S: 185k USD
991 GT3 RS: ?
Based on the historical 997 ratios, 235k is a bit high, but not out of the question silly.
997 gt3 RS was around 137, turbo s 160ish I believe?
I can see the RS slotting price wise between the turbo and turbo s. we will have to see.
08-31-2014, 05:14 AM
#33
Rennlist Member
Im going to buck the trend and back 918man on this!
I have made my hypothesis on this clear on past threads (and qualified as supposition not inside info). I havent seen one hard allocation yet beyond February 2015. That either means they simply havent opened up further allocations beyond 6 months advance (plausible) or they are not intending to extend production past 28 Feb 2015.
PAG produced 785 MY2014 cars. Not all of these have been completed yet (replacement engines) but they should be by mid September at which time MY2015 production will start. They produced the first 785 units between 01 September 2013 and 30 April 2014 (8 months) although there was a stop production for all of Oct and they slowed down again after March stop sale. It quite feasible they could knock out another 800+ units between mid Sept and 28 Feb and therefore complete 1600 units not far shy of 2009/10 997.2 GT3 production numbers.
One thing is sure the game has changed. we are not dealing with historic timing and metrics any longer. Big change since last time is VAG now control the show!
As for price on GT3RS 235K sounds preposterous but if i were the book keepers at PAG I wojuld be back loading loss on GT3 into RS producion now having clear view of 458 Sp and 650S landscape and knowing I had a car that's dynamically more capable why not charge 80% of what my competition are for those cars?
I know it sounds far fetched but why tell a premium client (918 buyers are top echaleon $1MM buyers!) mis information especially if long deep relationship? This has come from a 918 owners/customers mouth (who already owns 991 GT3 and has solid RS allocation) - what axe could 918man have to grind and why would his dealer principle risk giving him bad intel if hes such a good client???
Devils advocate sure but Ive been around since day one on the 991 GT3 and stranger things have happened on this journey!
I have made my hypothesis on this clear on past threads (and qualified as supposition not inside info). I havent seen one hard allocation yet beyond February 2015. That either means they simply havent opened up further allocations beyond 6 months advance (plausible) or they are not intending to extend production past 28 Feb 2015.
PAG produced 785 MY2014 cars. Not all of these have been completed yet (replacement engines) but they should be by mid September at which time MY2015 production will start. They produced the first 785 units between 01 September 2013 and 30 April 2014 (8 months) although there was a stop production for all of Oct and they slowed down again after March stop sale. It quite feasible they could knock out another 800+ units between mid Sept and 28 Feb and therefore complete 1600 units not far shy of 2009/10 997.2 GT3 production numbers.
One thing is sure the game has changed. we are not dealing with historic timing and metrics any longer. Big change since last time is VAG now control the show!
As for price on GT3RS 235K sounds preposterous but if i were the book keepers at PAG I wojuld be back loading loss on GT3 into RS producion now having clear view of 458 Sp and 650S landscape and knowing I had a car that's dynamically more capable why not charge 80% of what my competition are for those cars?
I know it sounds far fetched but why tell a premium client (918 buyers are top echaleon $1MM buyers!) mis information especially if long deep relationship? This has come from a 918 owners/customers mouth (who already owns 991 GT3 and has solid RS allocation) - what axe could 918man have to grind and why would his dealer principle risk giving him bad intel if hes such a good client???
Devils advocate sure but Ive been around since day one on the 991 GT3 and stranger things have happened on this journey!
08-31-2014, 06:30 AM
#34
The real question here is what would be the price of the 991.2 (992) GT3, 170k + options maybe with 500hp? So grab your 991 GT3 now, which is the bargain of the century, and could probably resell it a year later for MSRP when the pricing for the 992 GT3 is announced. Ultimately, the cost of replacing the engine has to be passed on to the customer. porsche is leveraging on the success of the 991 GT3 especially when it is being compared to a 458 Speciale.
08-31-2014, 07:27 AM
#35
At this point purely a hypothesis on the pricing, and not sure I can see a 100k price increase over the GT3. It's still a 911 varient, and 250k for a 911 with options can't see it. To say the least good for us if resale is your thing of choice. Mine is a keeper so resale good or bad didn't matter to me. Time we will tell boys.
08-31-2014, 09:09 AM
#37
$235k sounds like a Euro to US FX Rate converted price - I would suspect it will be lower as is typical for the US Market.
I would still pay the $235k even if that is the case, incremental performance isn't cheap in this game and it's still a lot lower than a 458 Speciale.
I would still pay the $235k even if that is the case, incremental performance isn't cheap in this game and it's still a lot lower than a 458 Speciale.
08-31-2014, 09:28 AM
#38
Don't believe the RS pricing. I work with a GM of a large dealership who has great contacts. He admits, he has heard nothing and he is always searching for clues. Porsche is very tight lipped about this one.
Sure 991.1 gt3 production could be ending Q1 2015. I just got my Dec build, Dec completion estimate, commission number and V200 status. A friend got the same from another dealer. Many 2015 allocations were dished out last week. I don't see Porsche releasing allocations then pulling the plug on them.
Sure 991.1 gt3 production could be ending Q1 2015. I just got my Dec build, Dec completion estimate, commission number and V200 status. A friend got the same from another dealer. Many 2015 allocations were dished out last week. I don't see Porsche releasing allocations then pulling the plug on them.
08-31-2014, 09:35 AM
#39
Yes Porsche has a 850k 918. They can't sell them. I too am a die hard Porsche fan, but IMHO they are not super cars. I have owned most of them including a 991 Turbo. I have a GT3 on order.
Super cars are bought based on emotion. The 918 which I have driven was fast but didn't hit me at all. I would rather have a 458 which I also own. I have driven both on a race track.
A 235k 911? Essentially a street car? 458's can be had for that money.
Super cars are bought based on emotion. The 918 which I have driven was fast but didn't hit me at all. I would rather have a 458 which I also own. I have driven both on a race track.
A 235k 911? Essentially a street car? 458's can be had for that money.
08-31-2014, 09:56 AM
#40
I agree that the 911 isn't a supercar, but it also isn't priced like one.
$235k for a GT3 RS vs $400k for a well optioned 458 Speciale, is still a big gap on a like for like comparison
It's a similar gap to the 991TTS vs a well optioned 458 Italia
The high-end pcars come with most everything and the 458 needs things added for a lot of money.
$235k for a GT3 RS vs $400k for a well optioned 458 Speciale, is still a big gap on a like for like comparison
It's a similar gap to the 991TTS vs a well optioned 458 Italia
The high-end pcars come with most everything and the 458 needs things added for a lot of money.
08-31-2014, 10:08 AM
#41
I agree with the others that something doesn't make sense about this, but if anyone has a scoop into inner workings of Porsche product, it is dealership owners... and if a dealership owner would tell ANYONE inside information like this, it would be a 918 owner...
So having worked in this business for the past 7 years, here are my thoughts:
Let's assume for a minute that this dealer has correct information... What would the GT3 RS have to be in order for Porsche to sell 500 units at $235k a pop? We already know it's a Turbo-body, PDK and has a wing, a different roof and a handful of other weight savings that will hopefully bring the overall weight back down to that of the regular GT3. I agree with the rest of you, that this would not sway Porsche buyers to plunk down an extra 100k.
The only thing we really don't know about the upcoming RS, is how much power it will have. Some have speculated it will have a turbo, but then why not call it a GT2? Further, it seems unlikely that Porsche will push the current GT3 motor much harder given the massive debacle that happened with the 2014 roll out. So what would justify spending another $100k plus in Porsche owner's minds on an RS? Simple: a massive N/A engine making well over 500 horses.
WHAT IF the RS comes out with a 4.0 liter version of the new engine making over 550 hp?? With 997 RS4.0's currently trading for $300k plus, Porsche offering a brand new car at $250k seems like a bargain!
So having worked in this business for the past 7 years, here are my thoughts:
Let's assume for a minute that this dealer has correct information... What would the GT3 RS have to be in order for Porsche to sell 500 units at $235k a pop? We already know it's a Turbo-body, PDK and has a wing, a different roof and a handful of other weight savings that will hopefully bring the overall weight back down to that of the regular GT3. I agree with the rest of you, that this would not sway Porsche buyers to plunk down an extra 100k.
The only thing we really don't know about the upcoming RS, is how much power it will have. Some have speculated it will have a turbo, but then why not call it a GT2? Further, it seems unlikely that Porsche will push the current GT3 motor much harder given the massive debacle that happened with the 2014 roll out. So what would justify spending another $100k plus in Porsche owner's minds on an RS? Simple: a massive N/A engine making well over 500 horses.
WHAT IF the RS comes out with a 4.0 liter version of the new engine making over 550 hp?? With 997 RS4.0's currently trading for $300k plus, Porsche offering a brand new car at $250k seems like a bargain!
08-31-2014, 10:13 AM
#42
My guess is 180sh Msrp.
08-31-2014, 10:17 AM
#43
Racer
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Yes Porsche has a 850k 918. They can't sell them. I too am a die hard Porsche fan, but IMHO they are not super cars. I have owned most of them including a 991 Turbo. I have a GT3 on order.
Super cars are bought based on emotion. The 918 which I have driven was fast but didn't hit me at all. I would rather have a 458 which I also own. I have driven both on a race track.
A 235k 911? Essentially a street car? 458's can be had for that money.
Super cars are bought based on emotion. The 918 which I have driven was fast but didn't hit me at all. I would rather have a 458 which I also own. I have driven both on a race track.
A 235k 911? Essentially a street car? 458's can be had for that money.
I disagree. First have you ever bought a supercar. I can ensure you spending 900 k is not an emotional purchase. I am guessing given your comment you have not.
The 458 has zero compared to 918 having owned a 458. Transmission is lazy and the build quality is cheap. Why they are depreciating quickly.
Where did you drive the 918? You would be the only one who i know of including the press who has that opinion.
Lastly they can sell the cars. They are almost sold out which is 3 x what ferrari and mclaren ha sold.
08-31-2014, 10:17 AM
#44
I agree that the 911 isn't a supercar, but it also isn't priced like one.
$235k for a GT3 RS vs $400k for a well optioned 458 Speciale, is still a big gap on a like for like comparison
It's a similar gap to the 991TTS vs a well optioned 458 Italia
The high-end pcars come with most everything and the 458 needs things added for a lot of money.
$235k for a GT3 RS vs $400k for a well optioned 458 Speciale, is still a big gap on a like for like comparison
It's a similar gap to the 991TTS vs a well optioned 458 Italia
The high-end pcars come with most everything and the 458 needs things added for a lot of money.
08-31-2014, 10:26 AM
#45
Nordschleife Master
Don't believe the RS pricing. I work with a GM of a large dealership who has great contacts. He admits, he has heard nothing and he is always searching for clues. Porsche is very tight lipped about this one.
Sure 991.1 gt3 production could be ending Q1 2015. I just got my Dec build, Dec completion estimate, commission number and V200 status. A friend got the same from another dealer. Many 2015 allocations were dished out last week. I don't see Porsche releasing allocations then pulling the plug on them.
Sure 991.1 gt3 production could be ending Q1 2015. I just got my Dec build, Dec completion estimate, commission number and V200 status. A friend got the same from another dealer. Many 2015 allocations were dished out last week. I don't see Porsche releasing allocations then pulling the plug on them.