CAlexio

So, if a color takes 6-9 months to be evaluates, how do you know what car it will be painted on?.. Despite Eduardo's admirable efforts on this forum, I'm still quite confused by how one orders and then actually received a PTS car.

Macca

Should be called Paint to Palette.

True PTS with bespoke colour matching is a drawn out process and I doubt it will be used on many GT3 certainly haven't seen any yet. All I have seen are colours like Mexico and riviera which have been standard colours in the past and to be perfectly frank should be cost colour options on the standard palette for the GT3

mrsullivan

that's exactly the argument I am making to PCNA

I am not confused that its a long shot...

Macca

Understand the frustration went through it and same arguments myself last year. To me for example Mexico blue should be no more difficult to offer than GT silver or amaranth red...

mrsullivan

that's almost exactly what I wrote to my PCNA contact.... we'll see

Skibum1963

For what it is worth, I can confirm that all dealers I talk with on the west coast say no more PTS orders. Period. It is getting annoying...Love the light green. How f'ing cool is that car?

Z356

I'll give it one more shot.

PTS means paint-to-sample. In theory, you provide sample of paint you want and they try to match it. That process, however, requires a feasibility study. They are worried about making sure it works with all the surfaces of the car (steel, aluminum, plastic, etc), that it doesn't fade at different rates, that a customer is not going to complain about the front bumpers not matching the front fenders (see thread below)

https://rennlist.com/forums/991-gt3/...or-is-off.html

In summary, the goal of feasibility testing is to limit the liability to PAG so as to prevent warranty issues that could prove costly to the company down the road. Most likely, the feasibility studies are done by the paint supplier...in this case DuPont and not PAG itself. Fade testing requires space which PAG does not probably have...(photo #1).

After an uncertain number of months which I have never seen quantified*, the color is either approved (available) or not (not available) and PAG informs the importer, who informs the dealer, who informs the client with the news. If everything is a go, the build is scheduled and the special color PTS paint is ordered for that unique build. The logistics required at least 3 months from scheduling to the date of production for a PTS car.

So:

A) The PTS list you see me and others post at Rennlist is something new that has never before the 991/981 was made public or published by PAG/PCNA (see attached at end of this post). It is just a compilation of the individual efforts of Porsche customers that have actually ordered a special color on their cars. All of these colors listed were once true 'Paint-to-Sample'. 'Riviera Blue' was initially PTS by the first customer of a 991 that ordered that color on his car. Once that person got it approved, the rest of us that order 'Riviera Blue' are all riding piggy back on this initial PTS 'custom order'! That is the best way to look at the approved PTS - a fact sheet on custom colors OTHERS have gone through the trouble, effort, expense and time to get it on the damn list! Without it, we would be re-inventing the color wheel with each custom order. So be grateful we have the list and use it to your best advantage.

B) From the very beginning, I recommended to folks ordering allocation-sensitive models (e.g. gt3's) to pick from an already approved (available) PTS color from the list. But if you have time...go true PTS (see C).

C) If you are well connected with PAG (meaning you are a long-standing customers that orders special custom cars on a regular basis), you might be able to get a particular PTS color through its feasibility study way ahead of your actual order. So (for example) if you are planning a MY2017 .2 991 gt3 in the far future, would like it done 'Hot Pink' and have influence at PAG/PCNA, you can try to get 'Hot Pink' approved in the next 12 months for that future order in calendar year 2016!

Let me know if I still did not make myself clear on the subject. I am trying... but Porsche is not my native language. It's sometimes very hard to translate Porsche into words that all of us can understand. And of all dialects spoken in Porschedom, 'Porsche Exclusive' has proven to be the most challenging for me to fully understand. That is why I keep writing about it here at Rennlist. Hopefully practice makes perfect. At some point it has to make sense, no? After all, these are the volk that invented the automobile, executed not one, but two, Schlieffen Plans against the same enemies 30 years apart and created the first cruise (V1) and ballistic (V2) missiles.

So can PAG provide an effective PTS program to its customers with the complications of outside vendors for some of vehicle's external/internal painted parts given the 'just-in-time', 'just-in-sequence' logistics involved? Sure it's difficult. But it's not Peenemünde-type rocket science! I say 'Yes' and think it can be better executed than at present.

Saludos,
Eduardo
Carmel

*This is an area where 'Porsche Exclusive' in Germany could give customers a better idea of normally the time it will take to do feasibility study. But I could go all day with recommendations I would make to improve the program for all its customers...but is anyone really listening?

.

CAlexio

Holy crap, I was feeling guilty picturing you tapping/typing all that out. Thank you!

For what it's worth, I had originally even told I could have PTS and thanks to you Eduardo I was some on getting it, but now I'm told my dec date doesn't qualify. Bit of a yank and jerk if you ask me, but I'm not obsessed, just happy to get a car

montoya

Eduardo, the real you slowly leaks out! I love the historical references, just don't take it too far, it could get ugly!

I once met someone from the Netherlands- he hated German cars, I wonder why?

Though when it comes to PTS, I would say the process is more Italian than Germanic.

mooty

Italians are easier to understand.u just need to show passion. they fixed my 10 YO C59 and decade old monte grappa dragon after one phone call when they figured out my passion. dragon is a LE fountain pen that most collectors keep on display. I actually wrote close to 40 volumes of journals with it and worn it out. the guy at the factory was AMAZED and literally in tears when he called me from Italy as he rarely seen them being used let alone worn out. passion makes them tick

Germans are more like communist Chinese and North Koreans, it's my way or the highway.

mooty

Eduardo,

well put. I understand the feasibility study's validity and reasoning as u explained well.

but the frustrating part is say u just want a APPROVED color say mex blue. they only do PTS in certain month, which I do not know how to find out. but let's just assume PTS is December 2014. for the moment.

montoyas allocation is nov build
and assume my allocation is jan build

we chose PTS
we diDnt choose the allocation dates. we were given those dates
so now what happens?

if I understand this correctly, PAG proposed something we can have, but unable to predict if we. can get it or not. why? they like to see us flip around in pain?

why provide PTS then?

I'm in hospital now trying to put a relative to heaven
he's in pain without morphine and flips around like a fish without water
if u turn on morphine drip with hourly bullets, he's peaceful
well, for giggles, I think I'll just turn morphine drip off and watch him flip around on bed in agony, then turn it back on then off then on....

I see much similarity...

montoya

^Yes, the process is cruel and bewildering. If anyone should get preference it should be Mooty, but the whole thing is like a frigg'n lottery.

Conekilr

Having gone through the process, here are things to keep in mind if wanting to do PTS on any limited run Porsche model such as the GT3/GT3RS:

#1 - You will not be able to get PTS on the initial/first batch of cars so if you have to have the first one, it's not going to happen

#2 - PTS windows are very short.

#3 - PTS requires at least 3 months lead time from approval to build date. So for example if your build date was December and that fell within the PTS window, your PTS order would have had to been in and approved by September.

#4 - Choose a colour from the already approved list.

#5 - Take action as soon as the model is announced. Let your SA know that you want to do PTS and have them put the bug in PCNA's ear so they can find out if/when the PTS window will be opened.

The whole process is a mess as so much is still not known or clearly communicated to the dealers/customers. It is much more difficult when trying to do it on a limited run car. I suspect it will be even more difficult to get PTS on the upcoming GT3RS if the rumours of it been more limited in production numbers and dealers getting much less allocations than the GT3.

Z356

I looked up 'comˇpasˇsionˇate' in the dictionary and your picture pops up.

You are s*** out of luck, that is what happens! Different departments within PAG are involved in the process. One hands out allocations to dealers for specific production dates. A gt3 will roll down the line on December 2014 date and someone has allocated that build to Fletcher Jones in Fremont...and then to you. This allocation department doesn't care, or worries about, what options are available for a gt3 on that date. Another department is coordinating PTS for the 991's including gt3's. And for reasons not yet explained to us mere paying customers suddenly realizes that PTS is not possible in December. Pretty much the same issue as having an October gt3 allocation but sport buckets seats are not available until November. Your are SOL in either of case!

There is an answer to that question...but we are not yet privy to it. Normally, PTS would be available to you if the PTS order window is open to schedule on your particular model, your color is approved and they have a 3 month lead time to prepare for it (order it & coordinate all painted surfaces ext/int with various vendors). Why December 2014 is a non-PTS month is also a mystery to me. I hope its not a portend of further bad news ahead...like no more PTS, period!

That is the question probably asked by most PAG series production engineers. They dislike PTS...creates more work & problems for them. And I can assure you that the bean counters at the Warranty Dept are actively trying to get PTS killed. In reality, PTS at $5500 does not properly compensate PAG & their stock holders for the liability risk and extra work involved! But that is my internal Wharton talking (a very small part of my equally small educated brain!), so don't repeat that to anyone at PAG or 'Porsche Exclusive'.

To make my point, just read this final post from one of our members re: his bumper paint issues and you begin to understand the liability involved with standard 'White' paint (not even PTS!). Personally, I think this problem is accentuated because (speculation since I have no confirmation of this yet) the gt3's unique bumpers are perhaps out-sourced to a vendor that actually paints them at a different location from the Zuffenhausen paint facility!

https://rennlist.com/forums/991-gt3/...-is-off-4.html

I am concerned that if PAG continues to encounter 'paint issues' on the gt3 they might cancel the PTS program all together for at least this model. That would be a shame...and that is not what I am hoping to hear will happen.

It's all good. I used to concentrate reading the news of our country & the world for at least 6 hours a day on the internet. But that got me so depressed that I signed up with Dignitas & scheduled a trip to Switzerland to enroll in an assisted suicide program. Luckily, at the same time I also switched to reading more actively the Rennlist forums. That cheered me up quite a bit*. So now I mostly read the auto enthusiast forums, tap dance a little...and type the rest of the time.

Saludos,
Eduardo
Carmel

*I cancelled my trip to Switzerland and instead booked on a bus tour of Western Iraq and Syria! I figure it would be less expensive (Swiss Franc is very strong right now!) and it gets me basically the same outcome!

.

<3mph

If I were to guess, this is probably not an arbitrary and capricious decision by PAG to turn on and off PTS to frustrate customers, but rather a tricky little matter of synchronizing all (read many) involved suppliers to provide just in time components in PTS colours. Even for PTS, PAG likely does not want to store many parts for very long, and they surely don't want to produce expensive items in rare colours that aren't used. So, to coordinate what I would presume would be at least 3 or more different suppliers to make what is essentially a one-off run of custom-made parts must necessarily be quite onerous. And if even one supplier bows out for a given period of time (for any reason), the whole machinery comes to a halt. BTW, I can't imagine that suppliers would want to be contractually bound to be available to do bespoke work all the time. Logistically, then this must be just shy of a nightmare.

So I feel very lucky to have had a car approved (hopefully it all works out) and grateful that Porsche even bothers to do this for us. I would imagine there is someone high up in PAG who feels strongly and favourably about the PTS program (perhaps influenced by advocates like Eduardo and others), and to her/him I feel very indebted. Otherwise, this option surely would have been scrapped (scraped (=alternative RL spelling/usage?! )) eons ago. Sure, Ferrari, Rolls Royce, and others can offer this for a stratospheric price for a very select few; and I suppose if one were to try to keep all painted components in house it could also be done year round (at greater cost), but that's not how most manufacturers operate and probably not the path VW is steering PAG generally.

Word of caution: this is entirely speculation on my part and I have zero inside knowledge of PAGs inner workings on PTS. Just my opinion.