911R Weight Reduction
03-23-2016, 12:12 AM
#47
Rennlist Member
Well, thats pretty light, only 70Lbs heavier than a GT4.
It will be a great car to drive.
I'd like to try the manual if for nothing else the LSD that we can then mess with to make it a trailbrake hoonigan :-)
A 911 will alsways do that better than a GT4.
It will be a great car to drive.
I'd like to try the manual if for nothing else the LSD that we can then mess with to make it a trailbrake hoonigan :-)
A 911 will alsways do that better than a GT4.
03-23-2016, 12:01 PM
#49
Rennlist Member
Weight reduction can be transparent but also depends how much character in the car you want to lose/change, for example:
Motorsport dampers/springs - lower weight compared to stock for sure
Carbon doors with crash bars
Light glass that hey won't put in US spec cars
Strip the trunk of trim
Cast Iconel or Titanium exhaust/headers with only center muffler - those cats, the side muffler, etc are heavy.
Carbon kevlar lower body panels
Carbon kevlar wheel liners
Titanium or aluminum fasteners for non-critical trim/components
Carbon kevlar bumper covers
You could check with brembo on motorsport brake kit options for carbon brakes to see if there is a lighter option, not sure though.
Only put a few oz of water in the washer tank :-)
If you have Ac go to an electric compressor design and remove the engine mounted / hose routing. Mount it up front near the evap/condensor.
I think getting to 2900 lbs is doable w/o changing the character substantially and w/o massive interior mods. Of course the car should be ordered as light as possible.
(FWIW my 997RS is 3040 with a near full tank w/o me in it as it sits in my avatar pic... )
03-24-2016, 06:02 PM
#50
Getting to 2900 lbs should be no issue. In fact, this should be almost achievable from Kit 1. Further, depending upon each individual's cost tolerance, I think we can go considerably lower, perhaps as low as 2500 lbs, or even less. And, to be sure, while certain of Spyerx's suggestions are, of course, good, some require more painting and paint matching than I wanted to include in Kit 1. Further, with respect to reduced weight components such as doors, bumper covers and other body parts, they require quite expensive (for first class parts which would include Class A Paint Surfaces) and large tools, so I thought that they would be more appropriate for Kit 2 or Kit 3. As to brakes, there are reduced weight brake caliper and brake bell (hats) available from AP and Brembo, etc. But, again, I choose to wait for Kit 2 or Kit 3 and then one could go for forged aluminum, aluminium–lithium or, if cost is no issue, even beryllium.
Finally, as to wheels, everyone has their preference. For me, magnesium seems more in place for the R and, additionally, I would rather not have the same wheels as a Ford and, as noted above, a custom carbon fiber wheel would be very costly. Additionally, given that the density of magnesium and that of carbon fiber are virtually identical, I am not sure how the weights would compare but, note that, when Carbon Revolution compares its wheel to a Porsche factory wheel, it is comparing a cast aluminum wheel, not a well designed one piece forged magnesium wheel, to a carbon wheel. Further, has Carbon Revolution now received TUV approval and how will their carbon fiber wheel stand up to the extreme brake heat of a Porsche driven hard?
Finally, as to wheels, everyone has their preference. For me, magnesium seems more in place for the R and, additionally, I would rather not have the same wheels as a Ford and, as noted above, a custom carbon fiber wheel would be very costly. Additionally, given that the density of magnesium and that of carbon fiber are virtually identical, I am not sure how the weights would compare but, note that, when Carbon Revolution compares its wheel to a Porsche factory wheel, it is comparing a cast aluminum wheel, not a well designed one piece forged magnesium wheel, to a carbon wheel. Further, has Carbon Revolution now received TUV approval and how will their carbon fiber wheel stand up to the extreme brake heat of a Porsche driven hard?
Last edited by Robert Linton; 03-25-2016 at 07:39 PM.
03-25-2016, 12:29 PM
#52
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
03-25-2016, 12:39 PM
#53
Rennlist Member
@Robert - fair enough. Your point on "stages" is valid. And yes body panels would be a later stage. That said, DP Carbon in Germany makes fantastic pieces. I think things like race dampers and kevlar fender liners, kevlar under panels could be done relatively easily as they are not 'finish' elements. And they are substantially lighter than the ABS plastic (compare an RSR to a street cars trays). Same with an AC unit, although a scale would need to verify the benefits! Glass and exhaust are easy.
On the wheels... I do think you are right on mag, it is probably more "lineage correct" to use, and if a proper forging and process is used, I'm sure quite light and strong. On the CR wheels, yes, I can see the stigma of the 'mustang'. But, I'd venture these are the most advanced carbon wheels available for consumer purchase. They do need additional styling though! The shop I use is a distributor for them in the US, so i've seen them, held them, they ran a set on my car (I do not have them, use BBS, i like cheap and strong). They are very light, and the shop has run them on their open speed challenge cars at 230+mph on the open road w/o issues. I think if ultimate weight is the goal, carbon will win over mag. Would be interested to see a real comparison.
On the wheels... I do think you are right on mag, it is probably more "lineage correct" to use, and if a proper forging and process is used, I'm sure quite light and strong. On the CR wheels, yes, I can see the stigma of the 'mustang'. But, I'd venture these are the most advanced carbon wheels available for consumer purchase. They do need additional styling though! The shop I use is a distributor for them in the US, so i've seen them, held them, they ran a set on my car (I do not have them, use BBS, i like cheap and strong). They are very light, and the shop has run them on their open speed challenge cars at 230+mph on the open road w/o issues. I think if ultimate weight is the goal, carbon will win over mag. Would be interested to see a real comparison.
03-25-2016, 01:23 PM
#54
03-25-2016, 01:30 PM
#55
Rennlist Member
03-25-2016, 07:36 PM
#57
As to the wheels, if someone could lend me a front and a rear, I could get an actual weight comparison as my scale is accurate to .1 of a gram. As to styling, as I noted above, Carbon Recolution gave an approximate price for a custom wheel of $10,000 per wheel assuming a minimum order of 15 sets (60 wheels). It would be more with less sets. As to running them at 230 MPH, on what kind of vehicle was that and for how long continuous at that speed? Also, what kind of braking was involved? Finally, as to being the "most advanced carbon wheels available for consumer purchase", they seem to be the only ones of this construction.
Notwithstanding, if enough people wanted these wheels and were willing to pay for them, we could order them.
Notwithstanding, if enough people wanted these wheels and were willing to pay for them, we could order them.
03-25-2016, 09:13 PM
#59
Race Car
03-25-2016, 09:42 PM
#60
Thank you.
Looked at that website and could not find Type 991 parts. Also could not find carbon fiber shock absorbers (dampers) for any car. Notwithstanding, with regard to kevlar fender liners and kevlar under panels, these, again, could be part of, perhaps, Kit 3, i.e., when we are running out of other parts for more meaningful weight reduction. My thought in Kit 1 was to get the biggest weight reduction for the dollar and fender liners and under body panels did not seem to be in this category.
Looked at that website and could not find Type 991 parts. Also could not find carbon fiber shock absorbers (dampers) for any car. Notwithstanding, with regard to kevlar fender liners and kevlar under panels, these, again, could be part of, perhaps, Kit 3, i.e., when we are running out of other parts for more meaningful weight reduction. My thought in Kit 1 was to get the biggest weight reduction for the dollar and fender liners and under body panels did not seem to be in this category.