Twin turbo 928 S4 in new Panorama
12-20-2014, 06:37 AM
#31
Racer
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Adelaide South Australia'79 5spd twin turbo
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I'm in the same camp as Fabio 421, If Johns kit had existed when I did mine I would/should have simply purchased it.
The work he has put into them is amazing and the results unparalleled. It is a testament to his skill and Porsche's V8. A beautifull match....
The work he has put into them is amazing and the results unparalleled. It is a testament to his skill and Porsche's V8. A beautifull match....
12-20-2014, 08:19 AM
#32
Rennlist Member
My neighbor has an 87 S4.
I told him about the article and the price tag.
His immediate reaction was that the price was seemed very reasonable.
He quoted some big dollar figures he spent upgrading and repairing a couple other porsches.
I hope he buys the JK install.
12-20-2014, 08:35 AM
#33
Nordschleife Master
Here's an example of what similarly well thought out modifications to an existing factory turbo car (AMG biturbo V8) would cost:
ECU Upgrade: $2950.00
TCU Upgrade: $1499.99
Air Filter Upgrade(s): $250.00
Turbocharger Cooling Upgrade: $2199.99
Colder Spark Plugs: $274.99
Downpipe & Exhaust: $5,995.00
Compressor wheel Upgrade: $8,495.00
Labor: $15,250.00 (includes before & after dyno readings)
Total: $36,914.97
Expected Power Increase: 265hp
None of the above is frivolous or scam, all those components add to the combination in a meaningful and necessary way. So it takes about $37k to take a 577 chp to 842 chp for a modern, existing turbo car. The price of the Kuhn 928 conversion is quite low compared to this, and then you'll have to consider that on an '87 S4 it'll take the power from about 320 chp to about the same level.
12-20-2014, 11:48 AM
#35
Panorama 928 twin turbo article
this month's Panorama has an article about John Kuhn's turboization (should TM that word) 928. Getting some good press.. Like most porsche drivers, I still try and start my cars with my left hand though.
12-20-2014, 12:06 PM
#36
Rennlist Member
I strive to be ambidextrous!
12-20-2014, 02:14 PM
#37
Rennlist Member
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Kennedale,TX a suburb of DFW
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I thought it was a great article. I went to his web site and told him so. He called the next day to thank me for my feedback. Kuhn seems like a really nice guy.
Didn't realize we had so many PCA members here
Didn't realize we had so many PCA members here
12-20-2014, 06:13 PM
#38
Captain Obvious
Super User
Super User
You two just can’t resist being negative Nancy's around here.
Who cares how "rare" these customers are?
Murf has sold more than 80 kits, Carl who knows but I know it's quite a few, DR sold a bunch of twin screw kits, and John has a few out there himself.
On top of that all the strokers Greg Brown has pumped out.
The domestic V8 swaps are not exactly cheap either, more and more of those are showing up.
If anything, as word gets out outside of the 928 community that performance like this is available, the more interest will be generated for the 928.
Bottom line is some people want a stroker, some want a blower (of any kind) and some want a turbo....some want both or a combination.
Meanwhile others want a pushrod......
Money and overall cost is not the #1 driving factor for everyone. If it were, owining a 928 at all would be a stupid idea from the start.
Mindblowing really.....the 928 gets some positive press and you two still find something to be negative about. Brilliant.
That BMW comparison doesn't fly here, apples to lug nuts...... If the 928 was still in production and interest in the "older" cars was falling in favor of the newer ones, it would be a valid comparison. If anything the BMW comparison would apply when comparing the 32V 928's to the 16V. Most with any interest in making a high performance 928 will just start with the 32V version which shows in the available products from our vendors, very few performance options for hte 16V cars.
Who cares how "rare" these customers are?
Murf has sold more than 80 kits, Carl who knows but I know it's quite a few, DR sold a bunch of twin screw kits, and John has a few out there himself.
On top of that all the strokers Greg Brown has pumped out.
The domestic V8 swaps are not exactly cheap either, more and more of those are showing up.
If anything, as word gets out outside of the 928 community that performance like this is available, the more interest will be generated for the 928.
Bottom line is some people want a stroker, some want a blower (of any kind) and some want a turbo....some want both or a combination.
Meanwhile others want a pushrod......
Money and overall cost is not the #1 driving factor for everyone. If it were, owining a 928 at all would be a stupid idea from the start.
Mindblowing really.....the 928 gets some positive press and you two still find something to be negative about. Brilliant.
That BMW comparison doesn't fly here, apples to lug nuts...... If the 928 was still in production and interest in the "older" cars was falling in favor of the newer ones, it would be a valid comparison. If anything the BMW comparison would apply when comparing the 32V 928's to the 16V. Most with any interest in making a high performance 928 will just start with the 32V version which shows in the available products from our vendors, very few performance options for hte 16V cars.
I aplogise, my intentions were not to be negative.
12-20-2014, 07:22 PM
#39
Drifting
12-22-2014, 03:28 AM
#40
Rennlist Member
Thanks, all—and thanks for the patience. It was hard to listen to your (totally fair) complaints while knowing what was in the pipeline and having waited for it for quite some time.
I wish all of you a very Merry Christmas, and a Happy New Year!
pete
I wish all of you a very Merry Christmas, and a Happy New Year!
pete
12-22-2014, 11:49 AM
#42
Drifting
Here's an example of what similarly well thought out modifications to an existing factory turbo car (AMG biturbo V8) would cost:
ECU Upgrade: $2950.00
TCU Upgrade: $1499.99
Air Filter Upgrade(s): $250.00
Turbocharger Cooling Upgrade: $2199.99
Colder Spark Plugs: $274.99
Downpipe & Exhaust: $5,995.00
Compressor wheel Upgrade: $8,495.00
Labor: $15,250.00 (includes before & after dyno readings)
Total: $36,914.97
Expected Power Increase: 265hp
ECU Upgrade: $2950.00
TCU Upgrade: $1499.99
Air Filter Upgrade(s): $250.00
Turbocharger Cooling Upgrade: $2199.99
Colder Spark Plugs: $274.99
Downpipe & Exhaust: $5,995.00
Compressor wheel Upgrade: $8,495.00
Labor: $15,250.00 (includes before & after dyno readings)
Total: $36,914.97
Expected Power Increase: 265hp
Turbocharger Cooling Upgrade: $2199.99 not necessary
Compressor wheel Upgrade: $8,495.00 actually costs about $2000
Labor: $15,250.00 (includes before & after dyno readings) at $100/hr that 150 hours to install two turbos and an exhaust
12-22-2014, 12:37 PM
#43
Nordschleife Master
I would disagree that those prices are reasonable. These three items are pretty ridiculous.
Turbocharger Cooling Upgrade: $2199.99 not necessary
Compressor wheel Upgrade: $8,495.00 actually costs about $2000
Labor: $15,250.00 (includes before & after dyno readings) at $100/hr that 150 hours to install two turbos and an exhaust
Turbocharger Cooling Upgrade: $2199.99 not necessary
Compressor wheel Upgrade: $8,495.00 actually costs about $2000
Labor: $15,250.00 (includes before & after dyno readings) at $100/hr that 150 hours to install two turbos and an exhaust
The compressor wheel upgrade requires disassembling the turbos and the integrated exhaust manifold, machining the existing compressor cover to accept the wheel, and a new, small series compressor wheel that is the largest wheel that fits within the existing cover envelope. Then the thing needs to be balanced, etc.
The labor is high mostly because of the packaging. The engine has to come out of the car for the removal of the exhaust manifolds and turbos. It's a new car, so just disconnecting the direct injection lines for engine removal takes a long time. Installing the intercooler upgrade is also a bit tricky because of the Distronic and all the cameras in that space.
Don't take me wrong, those prices have a healthy profit margin in them. They are not selling this stuff at cost. Nor should they. And many of us should not be paying those prices, there's enough DIY talent here! I just posted this up here as a comparison for what the market prices are for meaningful power increases for brand new cars.
12-22-2014, 02:44 PM
#44
Drifting
Wow, engine coolant for the turbo charge coolers seems like a pretty terrible idea. Even on a hot day I've never seen 100C IAT on my Audi, and that would be the AMG best case under boost.
I'm amazed how cheap you can turn up the Audi 4L biturbo. $15,000 takes you from 450hp to 700hp.
http://www.mtm-online.de/en/Audi/RS7...m0rs7560712qmv
I'm amazed how cheap you can turn up the Audi 4L biturbo. $15,000 takes you from 450hp to 700hp.
http://www.mtm-online.de/en/Audi/RS7...m0rs7560712qmv
