Ethanol's affinity to water?
08-30-2006, 08:19 PM
#1
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Ethanol's affinity to water?
Had my alignment checked today. The owner of the shop was talking with this other guy about ethanol. What do you guys think about this...
The owner was saying that there is a lot of water in the underground gas tanks at the stations. Normally, the water would just drop to the bottom and never mix with the gasoline - therefore never enter a car's engine. With the addition of ethanol, the situation has become a little different. He said that ethanol attracts water - therefore the water will mix in with the gasoline and now can enter a car's engine.
The owner was saying that there is a lot of water in the underground gas tanks at the stations. Normally, the water would just drop to the bottom and never mix with the gasoline - therefore never enter a car's engine. With the addition of ethanol, the situation has become a little different. He said that ethanol attracts water - therefore the water will mix in with the gasoline and now can enter a car's engine.
08-30-2006, 08:31 PM
#2
Burning Brakes
Ethanol will "pick up" water that is in the tanks, or anywhere else in the fuel distribution system. The problem with this comes when you store a tank of fuel that through its own vent system is exposed to more water from the humidity in the air. Depending on the temperature the ethanol may not be able to hold all of the water it has collected, letting it seperate out in the car's fuel tank.
If you get your fuel from a station that turns a lot of volume, and pays attention to their tanks the amount of water is acceptable but the problem is that if you don't kno the area, or the station you can have a problem and not know it until you are down the road.
If you get your fuel from a station that turns a lot of volume, and pays attention to their tanks the amount of water is acceptable but the problem is that if you don't kno the area, or the station you can have a problem and not know it until you are down the road.
08-30-2006, 08:40 PM
#3
Sharkaholic
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It also has a tendency to seperate from oils. So if you use ethanol gas for you two cycle engine and let it sit for any length of time, well lets just say you'll be looking at getting a replacement.
08-30-2006, 08:41 PM
#4
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
It sounds like water is always present in underground tanks. But the addition of ethanol causes the water to become part of the stuff that goes into your car's tank instead of staying behind in the underground tank.
Making me a little paranoid since we won't know the outcome until people start replacing injectors. But then we'll all be in a heap. Wonder if I need to look for fuel additives.
Making me a little paranoid since we won't know the outcome until people start replacing injectors. But then we'll all be in a heap. Wonder if I need to look for fuel additives.
08-30-2006, 08:45 PM
#5
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
The shop owner also said that people were having problems with their boat fuel tanks. Apparently ethanol is dissolving seams in fiberglass fuel tanks. Hope no one patched their tank with fibeglass.
08-30-2006, 08:51 PM
#6
Originally Posted by tomcat
The owner was saying that there is a lot of water in the underground gas tanks at the stations. Normally, the water would just drop to the bottom and never mix with the gasoline - therefore never enter a car's engine.
08-30-2006, 09:07 PM
#7
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by Larry928GTS
And where would this owner think that the pickup for the pumps is in those underground tanks?
I'm no chemist and didn't stay awake in many chem classes - the ones I attended.
Just wondering how credible this anecdotal information is. An affinity for water doesn't sound good.
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08-30-2006, 09:54 PM
#9
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Ethanol has a great affinity for water - that's one of the reasons beer achieved it's popularity ....
Deicing additives added to gasoline ( to 'mop' up excess water that can lead to carburetor/intake icing in winter) are primarily methyl alcohol/methanol, ethyl alcohol/ethanol, or preferably isopropyl alcohol/isopropanol.
There is no mystery to any of this - it has been done for decades: what is unique to ethanol is that it azeotropes with water to the extent of 5% retained water - and ethanol is increasingly being used as a replacement for petroleum in fuel at the pump.
All this is unfortunate, for the best use of ethanol is in fine single malt Scotches ...
Deicing additives added to gasoline ( to 'mop' up excess water that can lead to carburetor/intake icing in winter) are primarily methyl alcohol/methanol, ethyl alcohol/ethanol, or preferably isopropyl alcohol/isopropanol.
There is no mystery to any of this - it has been done for decades: what is unique to ethanol is that it azeotropes with water to the extent of 5% retained water - and ethanol is increasingly being used as a replacement for petroleum in fuel at the pump.
All this is unfortunate, for the best use of ethanol is in fine single malt Scotches ...
08-30-2006, 09:59 PM
#10
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Originally Posted by Shane
Larry a lot of those tanks have floating platform pickups to defeat that kind of problem.
08-30-2006, 10:57 PM
#11
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Ethanol is good at attracting water, but it is nothing like methanol!
-Methanol is a big NO-NO when it comes to fuel injection just for this reason. I know this from flying model airplanes, which run on a mixture of this stuff, castor oil, and nitromethane. You have to oil the engine with Marvel Mystery oil after each day at the flying field, since if you leave any trace of the methanol fuel around you will be rewarded with some nice rust!
N!
-Methanol is a big NO-NO when it comes to fuel injection just for this reason. I know this from flying model airplanes, which run on a mixture of this stuff, castor oil, and nitromethane. You have to oil the engine with Marvel Mystery oil after each day at the flying field, since if you leave any trace of the methanol fuel around you will be rewarded with some nice rust!
N!
08-31-2006, 12:26 AM
#13
I would not worry about it as long as the water is still in suspension in the fuel. Water in the combustion chamber is not bad in small amounts. Look at the cars running water injection systems to help with detonation issues. I'm not sure if the injectors will have a problem. Maybe you could talk to the guys at a fuel injection shop.
08-31-2006, 03:53 AM
#14
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Any water that gets into your gas tank will get sucked up pretty quick, since the pickup is so close to the bottom. If anything, regular use of fuel with ethanol that comes from a busy gas station will suck up any stray water you may have in the fuel system and you'll never notice that it's there. Unless you let the car sit for long periods with a near-empty tank, you'll never get enough condensation to present a problem. An italian tune-up a day keeps the wrench away! 
08-31-2006, 05:10 AM
#15
928 Barrister
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I have used a bottle of isopropyl alcohol every know and then to get rid of the water in my tank, especially on my 914/6. I know others that do it religiously also. I hate to fuss with those carbs once I have set them up and dialed them in. PIA if you ask me. And water will much 'em up big time.