Drmark

Erm - not sure I agree that ethanol "picks up water". Unlike oil based products it's miscible with water - ie it readily mixes with it so won't sit in a layer above it.

tomcat

Drmark,

A little confusing above. If two substances are miscible wouldn't that mean ethanol picks up water? Maybe "picks up" is different than mixing?

Anyway, I think you are commenting on what I was thinking. That ethanol does mix with water. Therefore water will always be present in the fuel going through the injectors because the water does not separate out in the fuel tank.

Drmark

Sorry didn't make myself very clear. Alcohol (methanol or ethanol) is miscible with fuel oils and water - ie it mixes readily with both - so, in theory, while some ethanol may leach into the water layer at the bottom of the tank, water will not leach into the ethanol fuel mix as it's not miscible with the main component of the mix (the fuel). Ergo - concerns over ethanol in fuel are an urban myth.
But if there is a physicist out there - now is a good time to step in!

Drmark

PS Think of it like a gin and tonic - add petrol to the top and it will form a separate layer. Alcohol from the gin may leach into this layer, but the water in the tonic and gin won't. Just don't drink it afterwards!

Loaded

For sure it will do it once, but its not so bad that the engine wont fire. Your car may run rough once as it tries to burn in your engine.....I love the stuff make engines clean. Removes carbon deposits easily.

YOu do know that some people do inject water to cool off pistons and this help with preig and det?

Fogey1

Ron_H wrote: "I have used a bottle of isopropyl alcohol every know and then to get rid of the water in my tank, especially on my 914/6. I know others that do it religiously also. I hate to fuss with those carbs once I have set them up and dialed them in. PIA if you ask me. And water will much 'em up big time."


I agree and have done it myself. And rubbing alcohol is cheaper than the "DryGas" or GasDryer stuff at the FLAP. Give that stuff a whiff sometime.

docmirror

Ethanol will mix readily with water. Mogas(auto fuel) will not. Isopropyl Alcohol is usually about 70% by volume of CH3CHOHCH3 + the other 30% of H2O. This ratio is fairly common in nature, although much depends on saturation time, exposure, etc. So for the auto we use, a 10% Ethanol mix(Ethanol is not Isopropyl), may have up to 30% water by volume. It's not common because there are lots of rules from each state and the final word from uncle sugar of ASTM D5798-99. There are limits on the saturation of water in the storage tanks, dispensing tank farm, and also in the delivery truck. But, of course, no standard for the stuff that acually goes into the car! ARRGGHH!

Ethanol will eat fuel lines, gaskets, tanks, and anything it touches which has a Butyrate or acrylic base. Like, old '60 & '70s fuel lines, gaskets and glass tanks. The process takes time, but with more exposure, more damage. Eventually, the lines and gaskets absorb the Ethanol(alcohol) and they get gooy or rubbery.

Burning Ethanol is a huge problem for the world. Politically, it sounds so great, but when you factor in the inefficiency in production, the lower specific energy by volume(burn more, get less motion), and the byproducts which are only slightly less troubling than auto fuel, the net result is actually an INCREASE in production of CO, CO2, and HC. Yes, it does reduce the amount of NOx, but in the big scheme of things, is the increase in all the other products of cumbustion really worth the decrease in NOx?

Water injection: Is a method to reduce the combustion pressure to avoid detonation. It never mixes with the fuel, and getting it setup and metering is very tricky. A little can do a lot of good, but the effects are not at all linear. As the water saturates the incoming charge, the flame front slows down so much that it actually increases EGT and may cause burned exhaust valves or cat fires. In a water cooled engine with good thermal transfer, the water injection is very small in terms of mL/CU Ft of air. Hard to regulate, and hard to vaporize too.

And now, for the truelly **** and retentive among us: test for Ethanol in your fuel.

Use a 100mL narrow graduated cylinder or large pipette.

Pour exactly 70mL of the test fuel into the cylinder fresh from the pump.

Pour exactly 30mL of clear water into the cylinder.

Stopper and shake a bit, let stand upright for 30-45 minutes.

Check the level of the separated products in the cylinder. If the fuel is still at 70ML, there is no Ethanol.

If the water has MIXED with the Ethanol in the auto fuel in suspension, the level of the FUEL will have risen slightly(about 2-4mL).

Caveat; If the pump Ethanol is already saturated with water from condensate or emulsion, the test will not work, because the fuel is already water contaminated.

And that is about it for Ethanol. I am not a fan(except for the 914 users who do it intentionally).

Doc