The_Chemist

Could you link? I didn't see anything on their site.

Cyberpunky

The only kits I could find on the Millers site was for 2.5l 944's. Nothing for a 3.0l used in an S2, that I could find *shrugs*

Endoman

Totally agree, runs weak when cold and rich when hot. Ok on the track when the throttle response shows and on wot but for road use I run my original refurbished AFM. Not recommended.

Raceboy

Aivar, while I agree that standalones are not for everyone, your case was absolutely NOT related to VEMS. At the end there just few tweaks left to be done when you gave up but the car ran very well actually.
Sometimes a bit more patiance is a good thing and I always did the best to help you out. Please be fair regarding that, ok?

Ish_944

See here!

http://www.augmentautomotive.co.uk/augtronic-3-0-16v/

924srr27l

Very true of many tuning products that are not exactly 100% bolt on plug in etc....


All the Original Bosch equipment with a good "Live" mapping rolling road session will yield you 10+ bhp and torque, all will no issues at all...


Some people like to mess about with these things, some don't..


It frustrating that some that do, seem to bang on about being so amazing and vice versa (Stock system dire!)


But as they are clearly the minority, (There are thousands of stock systems out there with the AFM) it's quite clear especially with some trying and encountering issues that 's it's really not that clear cut....


There will always be many products that are developed and maybe in time something will be more clear cut, but when you can achieve brilliant results from a stock system, if you know the right people..why dabble...?


R

Raceboy

And it has been proven time and time again that decently tuned standalone makes still better results than any AFM based product.

odonnell

Roger no offense but you spent something like $35k on a completely custom 2.7 setup...about the only thing left stock was your afm. Making more power than stock via tuning is so easy that it's hard not improve on it, as the factory tune is designed for a catalytic converter (for US cars) and lower octane fuel.

My entire standalone setup probably cost less than what it cost just to have your car tuned with the afm...

924srr27l

Are we talking Road fully driveable applications here ? or just race for the highest power?


What if (In my case 2.7 8v application) the standard ECU can be mapped live?


Are there any / many that can do this? in other countries....


Only unless I'm wrong ? not many places can or know how to do this or really well ?


Hence why Augment Automotive have made a Map system and programmable PCB ECU upgrade...+ other changes (wasted spark, different injectors, camshaft etc...) but this lot only produced 12bhp more than a stock 2.5 engine..?


The best UK Mapper could find this figure + more from mapping the original ECU..


R

924srr27l

The 2.7 engine did not cost a quarter of 35K !


It's totally stock apart from an inlet cylinder head port & a mild 274 cam


Forget about Cats we didn't have till about 1998 ish...


The uk 2.7 engine was quoted at 163bp ...my stock ECU / AFM system is 42bhp more than this?


Why is this?


R

V2Rocket

I don't know if it was missed in all my postings but my car is exclusively a road car, the closest it's ever gotten to a race track was the parking lot...

The MAF and MAP setups are so much superior in PART-THROTTLE, CRUISING power to the AFM it's hard to believe. With the MAP I have been getting better MPG as well.

You keep going back to your belief that the AFM is superior...I have said that it can flow pretty darn well as long as you are at FULL THROTTLE and at high rpm, when the flapper door is wide open.

But at less than ~4500rpm and at part throttle the flap is mostly closed, meaning your 2.7L engine is breathing through only a sliver of air pathway rather than the full 50x50mm square bore. Naturally this will cause choking at PART THROTTLE low/medium RPM operation.

As to answer your question...perhaps those cars didn't have as much tuning time, or a different build spec than your engine?
There is a lot of power on the table in any setup...I got +17hp with slightly advanced stock camshaft and revised spark/fuel tables, running on 91AKI gas...and I am a tuning novice compared to your experts...

J1NX3D

Please don't wreck another thread. No one enjoys conflict as much as you do.

Raceboy

I meant overall, both track and street. I have had standalone on my 924 for more than 10 years now (did EFI conversion in January 2006), with several different engines (2.0 NA, 2.0 Turbo, 2.5 16v NA, and now 2.5 16v Turbo). And during that time had always some car with AFM to compare, either owned by me or friend (944 NA and 944S). There's even no comparison regarding throttle response or overall behaviour of the engine.
Obviously you have absolutely no experience with standalones, perhaps you should remove AFM and convert to carb instead, it is such a simple and foolproof device afterall

924srr27l

You as anyone can Join in with my thread and discuss things....


There's no conflict, other than from some who rant the stock components are terrible ? Have you seen my power graph ? explain why this is so good? As I have no idea.... ? other than relaying what the experts told me...(Which was the best road system is to tune the stock system)
Best means all types of road use, Idle, slow, medium and high speeds etc..drivability, high torque @ low rpm, my 2.7 has 190Ft lbs at 2800rpm..


Other systems that some believe are better need to be backed up with some sort of proof, so comments like :


It's much better, the throttle response is better etc...is just a statement ?


Figures don't always give the full picture but in my case if a N/A engine has achieved over 200bhp and it's using all stock 1980's ignition and air measuring devices etc... and this is more (Torque also) than anything currently available that is claimed to be modern mappable electronics ?


Unyet all the stock Bosch ECU & Ancillaries can be live mapped and produce figures higher than what seems to be available ?


So what does this tell you? it's not clear cut.


People digest what they read, and in this case if they keep reading the stock AFM is total trash, this is not true


Even more it's not only NOT a poor restrictive component it works very well when other tuning parts are used and the stock ECU is mapped.


R

924srr27l

Ok thanks,


Did you ever get the stock AFM live mapped ? (on a 2.5 Engine)


I get the feeling this is not something many or any know how to do..


Why would I want / need to change to carb when I've had an 8 hour+ tune and achieved 205 bhp & Ft Lbs from a 2.7 8V ?


I'm more than happy with the engine's performance, and will not be looking for any more changes or improvement.


My points are, much has been thrown at me but a few members many times mostly on one item (AFM) and I even mentioned this many times to my engine builder & Tuner, even where they said I must be hell bent on fitting a MAF or MAP system and that they would fit it for me, but it would not be as good as the stock system..


So I went with their 25 years tuning this engine and the results are just as they said, Brilliant.


R


R