New member and my all original, one owner '84
11-29-2015, 09:34 PM
#16
Three Wheelin'
My option sticker shows option 158, the Blaupunkt Reno. The window sticker shows the Monterey I have though. My option 464 is of great interest..."Without compressor and tire gauge" yet the electric tire pump (which it has) is listed as standard equipment. I still have the options for my previous 84 "Goldie" and the 464 option isn't listed and the compressor was long gone when I got the car. What goes MGJ, can you shed any light on this?
Have never seen what you are describing. But, with Porsche ANYTHING is possible.....
some of the stories told over on the Early 911S Registry forums will confirm that very fact. Cars confirmed as arriving with the wrong paint codes to the color painted. Cars with no evidence of options as they appear on their 'Kardex'. Stuff like this.
And these are on vehicles 20 years older than the oldest 944 we own on this forum.
11-30-2015, 05:52 AM
#17
It is fun to see the cars in their original state! Good luck! 
Did they delete the undercoating?
BTW, July '82 is early but there are earlier ones out there.
Wrong paint - that's wild! Funny how back then the customer would have been enraged, but today that is something quite interesting.
Do you have a thread with all your stories? Do you have a book?
The Weissach preparation story is quite fascinating.
Did they delete the undercoating?
BTW, July '82 is early but there are earlier ones out there.
Do you have a thread with all your stories? Do you have a book?
The Weissach preparation story is quite fascinating.
11-30-2015, 10:40 AM
#18
Three Wheelin'
A more than a few cars were shipped with deleted items but it is rarely seen on examples surviving the carnage of track action thru the years. I believe all the CUP turbos and any ClubSport cars could also be had without insulation / sound deadener/ body schutz as undercoat, or any other item which would lighten the car substantially for an 'edge'. Some of these cars also get prepped with extra welding and chassis stiffening for torsional rigidity. The hand honed, parts balancing, engine parts lightening; all the extra 'fettling' is what really fascinates me. It is kind of a throwback to that era at Porsche when if you wanted to be competitive, you ordered a Fuhrmann 4 Cam in your 356, and the factory gladly took your money and got you a car with marginally different looks, but vastly enhanced power advantages over your normal Speedster or coupe. Maybe some Rudge wheels and better brakes to set it apart and make it even more competitive.
Try putting in a request for that when you build out your next new mass produced car.
The cars which were specially prepped for race teams all go thru Weissach. Dealers who have a firm 'in' with Porsche and desire to support a race team or have a really good understanding with the factory; know someone in the right places, etc., can order what they want and get it for their team or themselves. This process is a bit more streamlined today and Porsche has a huge motorsports arm supplying Cup, RSR, and specially built 919 out of that facility. It has changed greatly over the years to become what a huge operation it is today. Cup cars are stacked on pallets on huge racking awaiting their build out. If a team bends a chassis and it needs a new 'body in white' , a call is made to the M/S director and on the next plane it goes..... right to the nearest track if need be. I saw a few of these deliveries made to race teams at Daytona over the last couple of years. Fascinating stuff. ( wouldn't want to pay that freight bill ).
This is what the dealership had going for it which I ultimately purchased my n/a from, but on a smaller level than what it has become today. The dealer owner got a white , nearly identically prepped car for himself at the same time as my red car, and as he had a whole warehouse full of special VWs, Audis, and Porsches he had ordered to keep for his collection, this went in with those.
He did a bit of competitive driving thru the years and had good relations with Porsche. What he wanted he got. When he succumbed to cancer a few years after I bought my car, his family no longer wished to keep the dealership and they sold off all of his car collection and the lot, buildings, business. By then I have no clue what happened to the white 944 with white Fuchs and engine build up by Porsche/ chassis setup by Weissach, but a good friend of mine bought his very low mile ( 10,000 actual ) Concours winning 914- 2.0 litre. He still owns it today, in fact I just saw it again in his unique collection on Saturday when visiting him at his shop...... it is wonderful.
No book, it would not be of much interest to many I am sure. My spouse thinks I am a bit 'over the top' as well as most of my family. My brother is in support of my lunacy; he asked me to go with him to purchase his new GTi in the summer of 1984. ( still owns it as well; it is also a show winning car as his cars mostly are, but the GTi has only about 40,000 miles from new on it. Some of it put on at a few D.E.s and autocrosses. As it should be......
Try putting in a request for that when you build out your next new mass produced car.
The cars which were specially prepped for race teams all go thru Weissach. Dealers who have a firm 'in' with Porsche and desire to support a race team or have a really good understanding with the factory; know someone in the right places, etc., can order what they want and get it for their team or themselves. This process is a bit more streamlined today and Porsche has a huge motorsports arm supplying Cup, RSR, and specially built 919 out of that facility. It has changed greatly over the years to become what a huge operation it is today. Cup cars are stacked on pallets on huge racking awaiting their build out. If a team bends a chassis and it needs a new 'body in white' , a call is made to the M/S director and on the next plane it goes..... right to the nearest track if need be. I saw a few of these deliveries made to race teams at Daytona over the last couple of years. Fascinating stuff. ( wouldn't want to pay that freight bill ).
This is what the dealership had going for it which I ultimately purchased my n/a from, but on a smaller level than what it has become today. The dealer owner got a white , nearly identically prepped car for himself at the same time as my red car, and as he had a whole warehouse full of special VWs, Audis, and Porsches he had ordered to keep for his collection, this went in with those.
He did a bit of competitive driving thru the years and had good relations with Porsche. What he wanted he got. When he succumbed to cancer a few years after I bought my car, his family no longer wished to keep the dealership and they sold off all of his car collection and the lot, buildings, business. By then I have no clue what happened to the white 944 with white Fuchs and engine build up by Porsche/ chassis setup by Weissach, but a good friend of mine bought his very low mile ( 10,000 actual ) Concours winning 914- 2.0 litre. He still owns it today, in fact I just saw it again in his unique collection on Saturday when visiting him at his shop...... it is wonderful.
No book, it would not be of much interest to many I am sure. My spouse thinks I am a bit 'over the top' as well as most of my family. My brother is in support of my lunacy; he asked me to go with him to purchase his new GTi in the summer of 1984. ( still owns it as well; it is also a show winning car as his cars mostly are, but the GTi has only about 40,000 miles from new on it. Some of it put on at a few D.E.s and autocrosses. As it should be......
11-30-2015, 01:29 PM
#19
He did a bit of competitive driving thru the years and had good relations with Porsche. What he wanted he got. When he succumbed to cancer a few years after I bought my car, his family no longer wished to keep the dealership and they sold off all of his car collection and the lot, buildings, business. By then I have no clue what happened to the white 944 with white Fuchs and engine build up by Porsche/ chassis setup by Weissach, but a good friend of mine bought his very low mile ( 10,000 actual ) Concours winning 914- 2.0 litre. He still owns it today, in fact I just saw it again in his unique collection on Saturday when visiting him at his shop...... it is wonderful.
No book, it would not be of much interest to many I am sure. My spouse thinks I am a bit 'over the top' as well as most of my family. My brother is in support of my lunacy; he asked me to go with him to purchase his new GTi in the summer of 1984. ( still owns it as well; it is also a show winning car as his cars mostly are, but the GTi has only about 40,000 miles from new on it. Some of it put on at a few D.E.s and autocrosses. As it should be......
No book, it would not be of much interest to many I am sure. My spouse thinks I am a bit 'over the top' as well as most of my family. My brother is in support of my lunacy; he asked me to go with him to purchase his new GTi in the summer of 1984. ( still owns it as well; it is also a show winning car as his cars mostly are, but the GTi has only about 40,000 miles from new on it. Some of it put on at a few D.E.s and autocrosses. As it should be......
On the good side, sounds like he made the most of it!
Sounds like you have some cool stories. I'll send a PM to keep the conversation out of this cool thread!
11-30-2015, 10:31 PM
#20
Advanced
Thread Starter
I heard back from my mechanic today, he took a good look over the car. Couple things that we should sort out- the cv boots are torn, he said the fuel pump will most likely need replacing, the starter we're going to have rebuilt, and that the rear shocks have apparently been replaced with some cheap napa shocks or something of the sort, and that the front's are original and leaking.
My question is, being this is a M456 code car, should I have the fronts rebuilt and find some OE replacements for the rears to keep it all original? Or should I just find a nice Koni replacement to use?
My question is, being this is a M456 code car, should I have the fronts rebuilt and find some OE replacements for the rears to keep it all original? Or should I just find a nice Koni replacement to use?
12-05-2015, 05:27 PM
#22
Advanced
Thread Starter
Went to the shop today to talk over a plan of action with the car. Most likely going with the Pelicanparts Conitech timing belt kit, and a water pump from zims. Other than that, Ty and the welder are going to fix the battery tray up really nice for me, I'm going to have the starter rebuilt, most likely buy a new fuel pump and he's going to go through the fuel system for me, hopefully there won't be any surprises there.
I'm hoping the ignition system is all good, the spark plugs, cap, and wires were all replaced less than 800 miles before the car was parked. The rear axle cv boots are bad however so he's going to rebuild those for me as well.
I'm going to hope for the best with the brakes, we'll do the rubber hoses and fluid, but the pads and rotors were brand new before the car was parked as well, so we'll cut the rotors and hope all the calipers are good.
All the shocks have been replaced before unfortunately not with OE, the front inserts are leaking, but I think I'll pass on all that for now and replace them with some sachs inserts once I get the car home, and replace all of them with the correct Koni's sometime in the near future.
The car was sitting on it's tires in the garage, almost flat by the time I saw the car, so I'm assuming they'll need to be replaced. Shame too, they don't even have 1000 miles on them. Any recommendations on which to use? I have the standard cookie cutter wheels, and the tires on there are 215/60's, I assume that's the factory sizing?
After all that everything else is pretty much cosmetic.
I'd like to clean and polish the wheels up, I have the nice colored center caps too but some of them are not in great shape.
January '84 birthday!
914/6 racecar, 75 targa, and a bunch of racecars next to the 944
I'm hoping the ignition system is all good, the spark plugs, cap, and wires were all replaced less than 800 miles before the car was parked. The rear axle cv boots are bad however so he's going to rebuild those for me as well.
I'm going to hope for the best with the brakes, we'll do the rubber hoses and fluid, but the pads and rotors were brand new before the car was parked as well, so we'll cut the rotors and hope all the calipers are good.
All the shocks have been replaced before unfortunately not with OE, the front inserts are leaking, but I think I'll pass on all that for now and replace them with some sachs inserts once I get the car home, and replace all of them with the correct Koni's sometime in the near future.
The car was sitting on it's tires in the garage, almost flat by the time I saw the car, so I'm assuming they'll need to be replaced. Shame too, they don't even have 1000 miles on them. Any recommendations on which to use? I have the standard cookie cutter wheels, and the tires on there are 215/60's, I assume that's the factory sizing?
After all that everything else is pretty much cosmetic.
I'd like to clean and polish the wheels up, I have the nice colored center caps too but some of them are not in great shape.
January '84 birthday!
914/6 racecar, 75 targa, and a bunch of racecars next to the 944
Last edited by vongeiss89; 01-23-2016 at 11:33 AM.
12-05-2015, 07:11 PM
#23
Three Wheelin'
215-60/15s were the originals.
I love the Michelin Sport Cups, Kumho Ecstas, and Yokohama in a soft compound.
( FWIW ) Everyone has their favorite tires and least favorite. For me my least favorite are Goodyear, Pirelli and Dunlop on a Porsche. Unless you like a hard ride, lots of noise, and less than optimal grip.....
Those first 3 I mentioned have given me superb grip on track and street. For DE or Autocross. Hoosiers if you want to go for the distance on a road race course.
Did I mention the rebuilding on the Konis original to the car ? I thought I sent a pm. AS for fitting less than what came with the original M456 suspension ( yellow Konis were the originals which came on your car, both front and rear.) And, don't mix and match the brands and types. It could be very self defeating in ride quality and safety.
Make sure the previous owner did the right thing when replacing the rotor, as you also loctite that set screw on the rotor, or GUARANTEED it will work loose and drop off and your car will shut down.
I bought a non running 944 that the reason for shutdown and resulting sale, was because of a dropped set screw.
I suggest P21s Wheel Cleaner or the Porsche branded wheel cleaner because of the proper P/H characteristics. Followed by a good waxing. The plastic coating on ATS Cookie Cutters will dry out and chip or peel if proper care of them isn't followed. Brake dust, harsh car wash soaps like in the automatic drive thru kind, or dog **** or bird droppings will ruin them. IF the road salt doesn't get them first...... I am sure I am safe to say none of these things will ever be thought of by you in their use.
But, I leave it here so all others unfamiliar with their care and keeping will know the reasons why Porsche alloys and forged alloys get stained or damaged. ( the original finish is still on my FUCHS and the cookies which came on them..... and they could easily pass for a restored wheel. It just takes care and proper cleaning techniques. Which for me includes never having run a Porsche thru an automatic car wash. And using Vaseline on the finish of the anodized FUCHS and wax on the cookies.
I love the Michelin Sport Cups, Kumho Ecstas, and Yokohama in a soft compound.
( FWIW ) Everyone has their favorite tires and least favorite. For me my least favorite are Goodyear, Pirelli and Dunlop on a Porsche. Unless you like a hard ride, lots of noise, and less than optimal grip.....
Those first 3 I mentioned have given me superb grip on track and street. For DE or Autocross. Hoosiers if you want to go for the distance on a road race course.
Did I mention the rebuilding on the Konis original to the car ? I thought I sent a pm. AS for fitting less than what came with the original M456 suspension ( yellow Konis were the originals which came on your car, both front and rear.) And, don't mix and match the brands and types. It could be very self defeating in ride quality and safety.
Make sure the previous owner did the right thing when replacing the rotor, as you also loctite that set screw on the rotor, or GUARANTEED it will work loose and drop off and your car will shut down.
I bought a non running 944 that the reason for shutdown and resulting sale, was because of a dropped set screw.
I suggest P21s Wheel Cleaner or the Porsche branded wheel cleaner because of the proper P/H characteristics. Followed by a good waxing. The plastic coating on ATS Cookie Cutters will dry out and chip or peel if proper care of them isn't followed. Brake dust, harsh car wash soaps like in the automatic drive thru kind, or dog **** or bird droppings will ruin them. IF the road salt doesn't get them first...... I am sure I am safe to say none of these things will ever be thought of by you in their use.
But, I leave it here so all others unfamiliar with their care and keeping will know the reasons why Porsche alloys and forged alloys get stained or damaged. ( the original finish is still on my FUCHS and the cookies which came on them..... and they could easily pass for a restored wheel. It just takes care and proper cleaning techniques. Which for me includes never having run a Porsche thru an automatic car wash. And using Vaseline on the finish of the anodized FUCHS and wax on the cookies.
12-06-2015, 03:26 PM
#24
Advanced
Thread Starter
215-60/15s were the originals.
I love the Michelin Sport Cups, Kumho Ecstas, and Yokohama in a soft compound.
( FWIW ) Everyone has their favorite tires and least favorite. For me my least favorite are Goodyear, Pirelli and Dunlop on a Porsche. Unless you like a hard ride, lots of noise, and less than optimal grip.....
Those first 3 I mentioned have given me superb grip on track and street. For DE or Autocross. Hoosiers if you want to go for the distance on a road race course.
I love the Michelin Sport Cups, Kumho Ecstas, and Yokohama in a soft compound.
( FWIW ) Everyone has their favorite tires and least favorite. For me my least favorite are Goodyear, Pirelli and Dunlop on a Porsche. Unless you like a hard ride, lots of noise, and less than optimal grip.....
Those first 3 I mentioned have given me superb grip on track and street. For DE or Autocross. Hoosiers if you want to go for the distance on a road race course.
Did I mention the rebuilding on the Konis original to the car ? I thought I sent a pm. AS for fitting less than what came with the original M456 suspension ( yellow Konis were the originals which came on your car, both front and rear.) And, don't mix and match the brands and types. It could be very self defeating in ride quality and safety.
Make sure the previous owner did the right thing when replacing the rotor, as you also loctite that set screw on the rotor, or GUARANTEED it will work loose and drop off and your car will shut down.
I bought a non running 944 that the reason for shutdown and resulting sale, was because of a dropped set screw.
I bought a non running 944 that the reason for shutdown and resulting sale, was because of a dropped set screw.
I suggest P21s Wheel Cleaner or the Porsche branded wheel cleaner because of the proper P/H characteristics. Followed by a good waxing. The plastic coating on ATS Cookie Cutters will dry out and chip or peel if proper care of them isn't followed. Brake dust, harsh car wash soaps like in the automatic drive thru kind, or dog **** or bird droppings will ruin them. IF the road salt doesn't get them first...... I am sure I am safe to say none of these things will ever be thought of by you in their use.
But, I leave it here so all others unfamiliar with their care and keeping will know the reasons why Porsche alloys and forged alloys get stained or damaged. ( the original finish is still on my FUCHS and the cookies which came on them..... and they could easily pass for a restored wheel. It just takes care and proper cleaning techniques. Which for me includes never having run a Porsche thru an automatic car wash. And using Vaseline on the finish of the anodized FUCHS and wax on the cookies.
But, I leave it here so all others unfamiliar with their care and keeping will know the reasons why Porsche alloys and forged alloys get stained or damaged. ( the original finish is still on my FUCHS and the cookies which came on them..... and they could easily pass for a restored wheel. It just takes care and proper cleaning techniques. Which for me includes never having run a Porsche thru an automatic car wash. And using Vaseline on the finish of the anodized FUCHS and wax on the cookies.
01-23-2016, 11:31 AM
#25
Advanced
Thread Starter
Some updates: Just got all my parts last week, I got a new style water pump from allzims, along with the update parts, and the timing belt / balance shaft belt kit to go with it. Also a front engine seal kit for while we're in there. I got a battery tray cut out of another 944, which was actually a part that my father and I had owned, but when we sold our last (failed) 944 project, we sold all the parts with it, which we're kicking ourselves for now 
My mechanic started going through the fuel system on the car yesterday, and cut out the bad parts of the battery tray, still not sure if we're going to actually use the cut out piece or if he'll just fabricate a piece for it.
I'm glad we didn't try to start the car because the timing belt was pretty loose and not in very good shape.
These are the things that we're going now to get it back on the road, well at least running:
-Timing belt and waterpump
-Front engine seal kit
-Battery box fix
-Going through the fuel system, changing the rubber hoses that look bad, sending out the injectors to be rebuilt and balanced, a new fuel pump if needed, fuel filter, and of course draining and flushing out the system. I might be forgetting some fuel related things as well.
-New cap and wires
-Rebuilding the rear axles and new boots
-Cut the brake rotors, and hopefully the calipers are ok but will rebuild if needed
-All the fluids.
-Brake fluid
-Coolant
-Transaxle
And of course engine oil. I've done a fair amount of reading oil threads, and I think i'm going to try a synthetic 10w-60. I've read the manual's graph carefully, and it seems that with a 10w60 I get the best of both worlds for protection in the summer and winter temps. I know that some say that a 10w60 is too good to be true, but I have a lot of experience with that oil because of my BMW M3. I've tried their castrol 10w60 for years and it's a great oil but I could only get it at the dealer and it was very expensive. Right now I'm a big fan of Liqui-Molly and will use their 10w60 in the Porsche, same oil I use in the M3.
After all this and we get the car running we'll give it a lot of shakedown time and the shop and local windy roads before I say it's done. I know how these projects go and their never over when you think they'll be! Either way I'm committed to this car and it will be beautiful come next summer!
On to some pictures:
Some oil leaks to take care of:
The only rust on the body besides the battery box, I'll sand it down, give it the anti rust treatment, and paint and undercoat it when it's done:
Let me know what you guys think!
My mechanic started going through the fuel system on the car yesterday, and cut out the bad parts of the battery tray, still not sure if we're going to actually use the cut out piece or if he'll just fabricate a piece for it.
I'm glad we didn't try to start the car because the timing belt was pretty loose and not in very good shape.
These are the things that we're going now to get it back on the road, well at least running:
-Timing belt and waterpump
-Front engine seal kit
-Battery box fix
-Going through the fuel system, changing the rubber hoses that look bad, sending out the injectors to be rebuilt and balanced, a new fuel pump if needed, fuel filter, and of course draining and flushing out the system. I might be forgetting some fuel related things as well.
-New cap and wires
-Rebuilding the rear axles and new boots
-Cut the brake rotors, and hopefully the calipers are ok but will rebuild if needed
-All the fluids.
-Brake fluid
-Coolant
-Transaxle
And of course engine oil. I've done a fair amount of reading oil threads, and I think i'm going to try a synthetic 10w-60. I've read the manual's graph carefully, and it seems that with a 10w60 I get the best of both worlds for protection in the summer and winter temps. I know that some say that a 10w60 is too good to be true, but I have a lot of experience with that oil because of my BMW M3. I've tried their castrol 10w60 for years and it's a great oil but I could only get it at the dealer and it was very expensive. Right now I'm a big fan of Liqui-Molly and will use their 10w60 in the Porsche, same oil I use in the M3.
After all this and we get the car running we'll give it a lot of shakedown time and the shop and local windy roads before I say it's done. I know how these projects go and their never over when you think they'll be! Either way I'm committed to this car and it will be beautiful come next summer!
On to some pictures:
Some oil leaks to take care of:
The only rust on the body besides the battery box, I'll sand it down, give it the anti rust treatment, and paint and undercoat it when it's done:
Let me know what you guys think!
01-31-2016, 07:23 AM
#27
Rennlist Member
- HT/HS >= 3.5 [which, IIRC, is the min spec from Porsche]
- Viscosity @40*C = 155
- Viscosity @100*C = 23.8
Have you found any values [ppm] for P and Zn [anti-wear additives]?
Based on my research, P/Zn values between 1200-1400 would be good for street driven cars. Higher values [often found in race/racing oil] could/would be detrimental to a catalytic convertor.
Re: your sport dampers...M456 is simply a combination of M404 [front/rear sways] and M474 [sport dampers]. I would give Jason at Paragon a call, as he should have the early M474 inserts for your '84 [IIRC, 8641-1038 front, and 26-1209 rear].
01-31-2016, 10:05 AM
#28
Advanced
Thread Starter
Found a few specs on the LM 10w-60:
- HT/HS >= 3.5 [which, IIRC, is the min spec from Porsche]
- Viscosity @40*C = 155
- Viscosity @100*C = 23.8
Have you found any values [ppm] for P and Zn [anti-wear additives]?
Based on my research, P/Zn values between 1200-1400 would be good for street driven cars. Higher values [often found in race/racing oil] could/would be detrimental to a catalytic convertor.
- HT/HS >= 3.5 [which, IIRC, is the min spec from Porsche]
- Viscosity @40*C = 155
- Viscosity @100*C = 23.8
Have you found any values [ppm] for P and Zn [anti-wear additives]?
Based on my research, P/Zn values between 1200-1400 would be good for street driven cars. Higher values [often found in race/racing oil] could/would be detrimental to a catalytic convertor.
Re: your sport dampers...M456 is simply a combination of M404 [front/rear sways] and M474 [sport dampers]. I would give Jason at Paragon a call, as he should have the early M474 inserts for your '84 [IIRC, 8641-1038 front, and 26-1209 rear].
02-03-2016, 06:37 AM
#29
Rennlist Member
Re: dampers...Jason will have you covered in that department.
02-03-2016, 10:35 PM
#30
Advanced
Thread Starter
Too low concentrations of P/Zn is more of a concern. And modern oils are the problem...current [modern] petroleum specs call for lower levels of both P and Zn. But as LM is a high quality European lubricant, and their 10w-60 is designed for "extreme operating conditions" with "maximum wear protection", I suspect the added anti-wear package is more than adequate.
Re: dampers...Jason will have you covered in that department.
Re: dampers...Jason will have you covered in that department.
How do you feel about zddp additives?
Also I plan on giving this oil a try, but I have been doing quite a bit of reading on the 944 and which oils to use, and a lot of people say to stay away from synthetics. If the car seems to have a ton of oil leaks maybe I'll give a conventional oil a try next.