Pcargo

Hello, I am looking to see if a 944 would make a good starter race car. I am novice to the racing world, but I am hooked as I recently took my 996 to a PCA DE. I can get a 944 for fairly cheap, I plan on doing autocross and DE with it nothing to serious I just want to get the feel of it at first. I know racing is a money pit, my questions are will a 944 be a good car to start with? Which model should I get if not? What should I look for when buying one? Typical problems?

Thanks, Pcargo

grenadiers

I would just use your 911

PorscheDoc

944 is a great car to run and relatively cheap in relation to other models. My advice is to purchase a car that has already been built for the track and is current on it's maintenance and start from there. Buying a cheap 944 can be extremely expensive, so you still need to do your due diligence and make sure you aren't buying a neglected car. I've seen a lot of guys burn out trying to save a 944 too far gone.

My two choices for the track would be a SPEC 944 style build (not sure what your exact requirements are for towing/driving to the track, needing streetability, etc), though you may eventually want to run something a bit faster.....or an 944 S2, though that will be more expensive to track than the spec built car.

Pcargo

The 996 is a lot of fun came with suspension upgrades, but I can't full take advantage of it at the track due to my skill level and ultimately being afraid of crashing the car, which is why I am looking for a dedicated track car. Right now I am looking at a 85 944 with 157k on the clock. It will be a dedicated track car that I will be towing to and from the track. Ideally I would like to buy a track prepped one, but I would rather try to build one myself. What are the common problems weaknesses on these models? What do I look for when buying? Of coarse I want a turn key one, that just needs maintenance or change out the wear and tear items, then begin upgrading as my skill level, budget and time allow. What is the difference between the 944 and 944 S2? keep the advice coming guys!

Thanks, Pcargo

konakat

The '88 and '89 models have a bit more power than earlier 8v N/As. 85.5 and 86 cars have alloy front control arms that are not safe for the track, though they can be swapped to the earlier steel arms cheaply and easily. '87 and up cars have a larger wheel offset that allows you to use a wide range of Porsche wheels, the earlier cars have a much more limited selection. LSD is always a good option to have for the track, it was available every model year, but never standard on N/As.

The S2 has a 16v 3.0L motor with much more power than the standard model. Performance is much more comparable to a base turbo. Downsides are more expensive engine parts and transmissions, though not really any less reliable.

Pcargo

Thanks, thats the kind of stuff I wanted to know. How reliable is the drivetrain on these? Am I going to have to worry about the engine or tranny blowing up?

SamGrant951

It's not unheard of to have a 2.5 n/a motor let go. If just DE I'd want more power and the S2 will give you that...and they seem to be damn reliable. Just too many ridiculously fast cars showing up at DEs- a reasonable 200-300hp will be much more fun than 150hp. If racing power doesn't matter as much as long as you have a class in mind (944 spec/cup) for example since everyone is in the same boat power wise.

J1NX3D

I have never heard of early offset ali arms being a problem for anyone before. More expensive to replace vs early steel, more complicated to change the ball joint but never unsafe for the track?

FrenchToast

Well, the engine or trans can blow up on any car. Depends on how you drive and maintain it. This is a wet sump engine (earlier 911s are dry sump, don't know about your 996), so checking oil level is important.

Drive like a fool and yea, it can blow up. I've seen brand new Corvettes blow holes in the engine.

Typically, a slower car is better to learn with. Some instructors argue that ABS and traction control is okay, I disagree.

As for the other cars, it can depend what event it is. I've seen an MGB-GT amongst a crowd of GT3s, Nissan GTRs, F430 Challenges: that was a big power gap. Some PCA events have slower cars in the green group. But for any event you go to, it's pretty much guaranteed you'll be on track with at least one very fast car.

All the newer cars have AL control arms too. Just '87+ ones are longer.

Apparently the issue arises with lowered cars that alter neutral geometry. That said I think they've failed on stock suspension cars.

The 944S2 was offered from 1989-1991. It has a 3.0L 16V, brakes and bodywork from the Turbo (non S). All have ABS and airbags.

Problems/weaknesses IMO:

Early cars ('85.5-) has hollow front left spindles, for the speedo cable. If you get an early car I suggest replacing them with solid ones from a later car.
If you happen to be tall, 85.5+ cars have a raised steering column.
If you happen to be very, very tall, you may need a sunroof-delete car. Otherwise, don't bother. Some people think sunroof-deletes are the second coming. They may be lighter but apparently sunroof cars are stronger because of the extra bracing.

As for if you buy or build, I can offer the post I made a few weeks ago, here.

PorscheDoc

What is your budget to buy the car, and what is your budget to build? That will help with some of the advice. 944 is well known to need timing belt/waterpump jobs, clutch jobs, etc which are very expensive if you are paying someone to do it, so those are probably your two big ticket maintenance items that need to be done or have records of being done. Rod bearings are also a must if you are tracking the car. We change rod bearings about every 30 hours of track time in the 944's.

Noahs944

I just read this & need to compliment those that responded with answers... WELL DONE.

wildcat077

Pcargo,

For what it's worth,i bought a 944 SP2 race car for less than 1/4 of the price of what i have invested in my 911 and i could honestly say that my 2400 lb 83 N/A 2.5 liter race car is faster around Circuit Mont Tremblant than my 2700lb 300 HP 3.6 engined 911 with very expensive suspension and brake mods.

At one point i was worried should i ever put my 911 in a tire wall or guardrail during a DE so i bought a dedicated race car,got my licence,started racing and returned my 911 to street duty.The 944 is a very capable and forgiving track car and is relatively cheap and easy to work on.
Haven't looked back since !

Cheers
Phil

harveyf

Hey Pcargo,
I remember very well the excitement I felt after doing my first DE events. And also being flabbergasted at how much faster my instructor drove than I did.
My advice is to concentrate on safety gear and track time. That means a Hans, cage, firesuit, quality helmet, quality seat, quality belts. A better car, better tires, more power is way down on my list for a beginner. Unless you just enjoy the journey I would recommend you buy someone else's race prepped car, even if you are going to do just DE's for a while. That get's you a cage, a proper seat, proper harnesses, ignition cutoff switch, etc. You will get all that stuff in a used racecar for a fraction of the actual build cost, even if you donate your time for free. I would recommend a 944Spec car, as it is the most basic and hopefully trouble free and it represents a level of prep recognized by PCA and other groups. That doesn' mean you won't have to give it some care and feeding but it will have been exposed to track miles, which tends to weed out the weak points pretty fast. Everyone here will agree that a 944 is a great track car, especially for a beginner. I will also admit that I know that if I stuff mine into a wall, I will survive the event and can find a replacement car without breaking the bank.

I would run on street tires until several different instructors all agree that you are ready for R-comps. That will most likely be several years down the road. Once you master driving a 944 with low horsepower on street tires, you'll be ready to move up the food chain and know that it's your skill, not the equipment that is making you better.

I would check out 944spec.com in general and, because you are in El Paso, I would call Joe Paluch in Phoenix and get his input. He is kind of a "regional rep" for lack of a better term and can give you some very good technical input and may point you towards a good car to buy. You can get his contact info off of 944spec.

If you want to get a virtual taste of what a cluster it can be to buy a tired 944 and put it on the track, check out the articles on my website for the Orange track car. Fortunately I do enjoy the journey

harveyf

My website is
www.newhillgarage.com

Pcargo

Awesome thanks for the advice! You, guys are slowly convincing me to just get a race prepped 944. Power is not much of an issue right now since I need to learn how to get around a race track first before going around one fast. I want to start small like I said modifying the car as my skill level and budget allow, but you guys are starting to convince me that it might be cheaper just to buy a track prepped one and as someone point it out doing it right in prepping it. I tried to get on 944 spec, but for some reason the server is down? Any other websites that you guys recommend? If I were to go down the route of buying race prep car what websites do I go through to start looking at them? What do I look for in a car? My budget was to try to buy a strong runner for under 3k (part of the fun is to find a bargain) then upgrading things as needed with the plan depending on how competitive the car is with going for cage, seats, harness, and slicks.

Pcargo