1983 Porsche 944 - Dirt Track Race Car Build
10-02-2014, 10:02 PM
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1983 Porsche 944 - Dirt Track Race Car Build
Hello all,
This is my first ever post on Rennlist and hopefully it's not too blasphemous for all the long time Porsche owners! I have just purchased an '83 Porsche 944 for the sole purpose of becoming a dedicated dirt circle track car.
As a little background, this whole idea got started while attending races at my local small-town dirt track. I was asked to be the pit crew for a couple friends who race in the faster Sportsman and Late Model dirt series' and figured if I was going to be at the track every weekend, I might as well be racing something too. The track has a lower, 4-cylinder only division which seemed like an easy choice for something to fill my time without interfering with pit crew duty. It's been bothering us for a while that the class has been dominated by Honda Civics, and I had no interest in driving anything front-wheel-drive. After consulting the rule book, the only RWD vehicle that seemed to fit their very restrictive rules was the Porsche 944.
So last weekend we headed out with the trailer and negotiated the purchase of an '83. Which now resides in my very cluttered, recently moved shop (there aren't even working lights at the moment). I did a *lot* of reading before jumping into a Porsche but I still have many questions that I'm hoping the seasoned 944 veterans will be able to help me with throughout my build.
The first questions are in regards to the wheels; The car I purchased came with 928 Wintercult wheels on it. These are obviously incorrect and have such an incredibly different offset that they rub on the car and can't really be driven without spacers. They were mostly just something to keep the car off the ground and were not a deal-breaker for me since our class requires that all cars run 15x7 steel wheels.
This presents the first problem because as far as I've been able to tell, there are *no* steel wheels available in Porsche 5x130 bolt pattern other than the space saver rims that came with some models. So I've found a custom steel wheel company that can do the 5x130 bolt pattern but need some confirmation before I order myself some rims.
1. Stock cookie cutters and phone dials for early 944's have a 23mm offset, but my current wheels seem to be sunk in more in the back than the front. Was there a stock wheel spacer used on the rear hubs originally? I need to specify the backspacing for each wheel when I order, so if I need to have different spacing for the front and back I can order them that way rather than having to run spacers.
2. Does anyone happen to know exactly how much room is needed to ensure clearance for the front and rear brakes on a 944? Is this generally an issue with different wheels?
Sorry for the extremely long first post, but I'm sure I'll have many more questions as I get further into this project. Hopefully if everything goes well I will stripping down a majority of the car this weekend in prep. for the roll cage install!
This is my first ever post on Rennlist and hopefully it's not too blasphemous for all the long time Porsche owners! I have just purchased an '83 Porsche 944 for the sole purpose of becoming a dedicated dirt circle track car.
As a little background, this whole idea got started while attending races at my local small-town dirt track. I was asked to be the pit crew for a couple friends who race in the faster Sportsman and Late Model dirt series' and figured if I was going to be at the track every weekend, I might as well be racing something too. The track has a lower, 4-cylinder only division which seemed like an easy choice for something to fill my time without interfering with pit crew duty. It's been bothering us for a while that the class has been dominated by Honda Civics, and I had no interest in driving anything front-wheel-drive. After consulting the rule book, the only RWD vehicle that seemed to fit their very restrictive rules was the Porsche 944.
So last weekend we headed out with the trailer and negotiated the purchase of an '83. Which now resides in my very cluttered, recently moved shop (there aren't even working lights at the moment). I did a *lot* of reading before jumping into a Porsche but I still have many questions that I'm hoping the seasoned 944 veterans will be able to help me with throughout my build.
The first questions are in regards to the wheels; The car I purchased came with 928 Wintercult wheels on it. These are obviously incorrect and have such an incredibly different offset that they rub on the car and can't really be driven without spacers. They were mostly just something to keep the car off the ground and were not a deal-breaker for me since our class requires that all cars run 15x7 steel wheels.
This presents the first problem because as far as I've been able to tell, there are *no* steel wheels available in Porsche 5x130 bolt pattern other than the space saver rims that came with some models. So I've found a custom steel wheel company that can do the 5x130 bolt pattern but need some confirmation before I order myself some rims.
1. Stock cookie cutters and phone dials for early 944's have a 23mm offset, but my current wheels seem to be sunk in more in the back than the front. Was there a stock wheel spacer used on the rear hubs originally? I need to specify the backspacing for each wheel when I order, so if I need to have different spacing for the front and back I can order them that way rather than having to run spacers.
2. Does anyone happen to know exactly how much room is needed to ensure clearance for the front and rear brakes on a 944? Is this generally an issue with different wheels?
Sorry for the extremely long first post, but I'm sure I'll have many more questions as I get further into this project. Hopefully if everything goes well I will stripping down a majority of the car this weekend in prep. for the roll cage install!
10-02-2014, 10:17 PM
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Been done, successfully.That's too nice of an '83 to get bashed up- and it will. Plenty of run down cars for this purpose.
You can modify Chevy wheels to fit. Porsche made steel wheels but they aren't going to be cheap. Where are you from?
You can modify Chevy wheels to fit. Porsche made steel wheels but they aren't going to be cheap. Where are you from?
10-02-2014, 11:32 PM
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jc85g: Do you have any more information on where it was done successfully as a dirt track car before? I would love to find some more ideas for my own setup. And yes, I agree that it is in pretty good shape and will get pretty beat up, but it was the whole purpose behind the car and is still a better fate than it would have had before I came along!
I am extremely interested in how Chevy wheels can be made to fit! This would be a huge cost saver considering the amount of wheels that are needed for this style of racing. I am guessing that since 5x5 wheels are only a 3mm difference that perhaps the mounting holes could be drilled ~1.5mm larger and they would fit?
V2Rocket: I did look into this idea as well. Unfortunately the biggest drawbacks of this for me are that the spare steel space-savers are only 5.5" width, which is the absolute smallest rim size that you can run 7" tread width tires on. Because of the strain put on tires in dirt track racing (we generally run tires with bead locks just to keep the tires on the rims) this would probably cause a lot of issues. Then there was the secondary problem of even locating enough of the steel spares to run the car and have extras to run with different tire sizes! I appreciate the idea though!
I am extremely interested in how Chevy wheels can be made to fit! This would be a huge cost saver considering the amount of wheels that are needed for this style of racing. I am guessing that since 5x5 wheels are only a 3mm difference that perhaps the mounting holes could be drilled ~1.5mm larger and they would fit?
V2Rocket: I did look into this idea as well. Unfortunately the biggest drawbacks of this for me are that the spare steel space-savers are only 5.5" width, which is the absolute smallest rim size that you can run 7" tread width tires on. Because of the strain put on tires in dirt track racing (we generally run tires with bead locks just to keep the tires on the rims) this would probably cause a lot of issues. Then there was the secondary problem of even locating enough of the steel spares to run the car and have extras to run with different tire sizes! I appreciate the idea though!
10-02-2014, 11:41 PM
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There a have been a couple dirt 944s around. You won't find any info on the one I was involved with. You are on the right track with the Chevy wheels. I believe they were off an S10. Similar design to the cookie cutters. Where are you located? Pm if needed.
10-03-2014, 12:03 AM
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My apologies, I forgot to mention (and have now updated my profile) but I am located in Ontario, Canada. I couldn't PM you due to lack of posts, but will now!
Edit: Never mind, the private message option still isn't appearing for some reason.
Edit: Never mind, the private message option still isn't appearing for some reason.
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10-03-2014, 09:39 AM
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Sounds like a fun project. Using the same offset front and rear will allow you to put wheels on any corner of the car, which can save money on tires. Is there a weight minimum for the class?
10-03-2014, 06:45 PM
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jc85g: You will have incoming PM shortly!
V996: I didn't realize that there were many dirt track fans on this site! We were actually hoping to keep the car under wraps locally until next years rules were solidified in the coming months. As it stands, the car meets all track requirements but some of the local racers can be a bit wary of anything that they might consider to be competition! We're worried that someone will try to have rules added that might disqualify the car before we even get a chance to run it. I can tell you that it isn't Brockville though.
Van: I agree that it would be nice to run the same offset on all 4 corners of the car but it is quite common to have wheels of a few different offsets (backspacing) ready to swap onto the car to increase/decrease the stagger. This can make a really big difference in helping the car through the corners in different track conditions.
StoogeMoe: I've attached a picture at the bottom of this post showing the type of cars that are common on the track out here (in this division) for you.
theamsoilguy: Similar type of build just less windows!
porsche0nut: Thanks for the compliments. I'll try to keep this thread updated as I go along. Hopefully I'll get a lot of the interior stripped out this weekend.
I have been brainstorming a solution to my steel wheel/offset problem and might have something to try. Since the stock bolt pattern is 5x130mm and 5x5 would technically be 5x127mm, I think that I may be able to step up to 5/8" studs from the stock 14mm without major work. The drill size for 5/8" studs is generally ~21/32" which would be a difference of ~2.6mm from the 14mm studs. With a little fancy positioning it may be do-able without having to fill any of the existing lug holes (or I could just be dreaming). Either way, I am going to dig out one of the 5x5 @ 5/8" wheel spacers from one of our old dirt Modified race cars and see what I can do. I'm also going to look for a spare 944 hub as a tester.
V996: I didn't realize that there were many dirt track fans on this site! We were actually hoping to keep the car under wraps locally until next years rules were solidified in the coming months. As it stands, the car meets all track requirements but some of the local racers can be a bit wary of anything that they might consider to be competition! We're worried that someone will try to have rules added that might disqualify the car before we even get a chance to run it. I can tell you that it isn't Brockville though.
Van: I agree that it would be nice to run the same offset on all 4 corners of the car but it is quite common to have wheels of a few different offsets (backspacing) ready to swap onto the car to increase/decrease the stagger. This can make a really big difference in helping the car through the corners in different track conditions.
StoogeMoe: I've attached a picture at the bottom of this post showing the type of cars that are common on the track out here (in this division) for you.
theamsoilguy: Similar type of build just less windows!
porsche0nut: Thanks for the compliments. I'll try to keep this thread updated as I go along. Hopefully I'll get a lot of the interior stripped out this weekend.
I have been brainstorming a solution to my steel wheel/offset problem and might have something to try. Since the stock bolt pattern is 5x130mm and 5x5 would technically be 5x127mm, I think that I may be able to step up to 5/8" studs from the stock 14mm without major work. The drill size for 5/8" studs is generally ~21/32" which would be a difference of ~2.6mm from the 14mm studs. With a little fancy positioning it may be do-able without having to fill any of the existing lug holes (or I could just be dreaming). Either way, I am going to dig out one of the 5x5 @ 5/8" wheel spacers from one of our old dirt Modified race cars and see what I can do. I'm also going to look for a spare 944 hub as a tester.