Otto Mechanic

Does anyone know if the 1991 944 S2 Firehawk cars really ran Firestone Firehawk tires? If so (and I have to assume they did):

- What size did they run? 17" wheels? 225/45/17 Front & maybe 245/40/17 Rear? Or did they run on (then) stock 205/55/16 & 225/50/16?

- Do today's Firehawk tires have any relation at all to the tires Firestone was promoting with the race series back in 1991?

It may seem silly but I'm starting my "stage I" S2 track build using the '91 Firehawk cars as sort of a base model and I'm thinking about buying a set of Firehawk tires just for the experience and history. I'm also looking at Yoko 225/45/17 + 255/40/17 tires as a more contemporary if non-traditional alternative that would put more rubber on the road and could perform a bit better? Opinions based on experience and historical perspective welcome. Both of the options get me so close to the stock wheel in terms of revs/mile that neither my speedometer or transmission should be able to tell the difference I don't think.

Slantnose!

I always thought they ran the magnesium 8x9x16 phonedials...

Otto Mechanic

Did they? I know the Turbo Cups did, the Firehawk was a different series...

FrenchToast

The cars probably ran the Firestones because Firestone probably supplied the tires, and I imagine those tires were stipulated in the rules.

Much like the Pirelli or Continental Challenge series today. However, the Continentals are actually re-branded Hoosiers, but that's a different story.

So if the Firestone series was anything like today's Conti series, maybe not?

I doubt they would have run 17" wheels. Typically they would have run the smallest wheels that fit over the brakes. Which in the case of an M030 S2 would be 16".

I think the cars were probably delivered with 16" Mag Phonies.

But I'm sure a lot of teams would have run other wheels, such as BBS wheels. Especially after their fragile mag Phones cracked, bent, exploded, or whatever magnesium does under stress.

They probably would not have run 205 and 225, but rather 225/50 and 245/45 as that was what came on the Turbo S with its 7"/9" Clubsports.

Try asking the 924/44/68 forum, they may know. Someone on there even has a Turbo Cup he's owned since import, IIRC.

Yea, they're circular.

In other words, no. Tire technology has progressed in leaps and bounds since then.

The chair you're sitting on probably has more relation to 25-year-old Firehawks than modern Firehawks do, because your chair probably contains plastics made from recycled Firehawks.

Look at it this way: Why do independent companies, magazines and reviewers test tires every year? Tires change. The best tires change. The best tires for rain, best for dry, best for snow, etc. change.

Modern Firehawks might (and that's a big might) have some vestigial remnants of tread design and MAYBE some distant vestiges of compound design from that era, but it's a longshot.

Tire technology is a highly secretive industry. So no one really knows what goes on. But the secretism tells us that things are always changing.

To be blunt; don't base your tire selection based on an assumed or suggested pedigree because of a series nearly 25 years ago.

And in the case of today's Conti series, Conti has nothing to do with the """"""Continental"""""" tires as it says on the sidewall.

In other words, if you REALLY want Firehawks, buy whatever tires suit your uses best, and then paint Firehawk on the sidewall. Bonus: if they happen to be Firehawks, you don't need to paint!

All that said, IIRC Firehawks used to be a decent tires many years ago, no clue what they're like now.

Otto Mechanic

So that's another vote for the mag phone dials, we're discovering consensus I think

Burn? Maybe they do the same thing titanium lug nuts do? I don't know, I've only seen pictures of cars with BBS wheels on them, they could have been any size so opinions are important and you're the second person who's said 16" mags are most likely.

I'm looking at 225/45/17 front and 245/40/17 rear, they're pretty much an exact match for the revs/mile on the 205 & 225 16"s so the speedometer shouldn't notice.

I'll cross post the question on the other list and see if I can find the fellow you're talking about, thanks.

Sort of what I expected, but I've learned to assume nothing

FrenchToast

Personally, I wouldn't drive on mag Phones if someone gave them to me. But I'm weird, too. Maybe these are better, but apparently the mags from prior decades didn't normally fair too well.

Found him.

The guy who started this thread (note his signature):

https://rennlist.com/forums/924-931-...-cup-cars.html

And here is a post of his outlining the options (or in some cases, lack thereof) for a late Turbo Cup:

https://rennlist.com/forums/924-931-...ml#post2541679

FrenchToast

Firehawk car that may be worth a look.

Click pic.



Looks mostly original.

Rust on the rear frame rails is a bit sketchy.

But interesting nonetheless.

Otto Mechanic

Great find thanks! Those do look like the same pearl white mag phone dials they put on the turbo cups and they'd have to be original unless the owner cannibalized one. Doesn't seem too likely to me.

I don't think I'll try reproducing the rust

Otto Mechanic

I wonder if that 968 spoiler is original?

FrenchToast

IIRC all '91 944s had that spoiler. Which for North America would only have been an S2.

It's actually not exactly a 968 spoiler. The 968 version has an integrated brakelight. Aside from that, I think it's the same?

The BBS wheels they used were probably the same size as the phonies. It was probably stipulated in the rules. 8x9 is already a pretty wide setup for a car that's basically stock.

Another benefit for teams running BBS, would, I imagine, have been repair. When they slammed a curb at full tilt and bent a rim, they could just swap out a rim section if the center was still good. Not the case for a mag Phone!

Otto Mechanic

Thanks, I wouldn't have seen that in the picture. My '89 has the older rubber wrap around spoiler. They must have given the '91 a new look to make it fit in better with the 928 S4.

Looks like I'll be shopping for a set of aluminum 16" Phones soon then. My car has 17" turbo twist wheels now. I like the twists though, I think they may breathe better but I don't know yet. Once I get the car on the track I should know more.

FrenchToast

I've read the twists (if they are Turbo Twists, not sure about Boxster Twists) are actually supposed to draw air into the brakes when rotating.

Though I'm not sure how that works on both sides, since they're asymmetrical. I guess one side draws air in, other side draws air out?

I'd consider some forged wheels for the track. Either way, make sure they're free of cracks and bends.

redmill

check with por944s2,
he had some mag phonedials for sale off his firehawk, not sure if gone.