Stacker trailers and CDLs. How to deal with it.
05-02-2017, 08:38 PM
#31
Rennlist Member
I know a guy in our race class that got pulled over on the way to the Glen last year towing an open trailer!! with an F150!! Cop said something that it was over 10,000 pounds and looked commercial. It looks plain as day. Made him drop the trailer and wait 12 hours to pick it up. He almost missed the championship races. When those cops want to be ********, they will.
05-04-2017, 10:27 AM
#33
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In Florida a standard issued license is a Class E license and on the back it states "Class: E - Any non-commercial vehicle with a GVWR less than 26,001 lbs. or any RV". I have not had issues utilizing the following:
3500 Ram - GVWR 14,000
28' Aluminum Trailer - GVWR 10,500
Now with my new trailer I have issues, I have talked to the DMV and FDOT, I will indeed require a Commercial CDL Class A (as there is no non-commercial CDL in Florida) because I will have the following:
3500 Ram - GVWR 14,000
34' Montrose - GVWR 15,600
Obviously your mileage may vary with this information, and I have NEVER stopped at the Florida Ag station and I cross the state line at least 4 - 6x a year.
3500 Ram - GVWR 14,000
28' Aluminum Trailer - GVWR 10,500
Now with my new trailer I have issues, I have talked to the DMV and FDOT, I will indeed require a Commercial CDL Class A (as there is no non-commercial CDL in Florida) because I will have the following:
3500 Ram - GVWR 14,000
34' Montrose - GVWR 15,600
Obviously your mileage may vary with this information, and I have NEVER stopped at the Florida Ag station and I cross the state line at least 4 - 6x a year.
THis was a few years back. Then they called the DOT in because he did not have a DOT number. When I heard this I started to stop.
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05-04-2017, 10:30 AM
#34
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I know a guy in our race class that got pulled over on the way to the Glen last year towing an open trailer!! with an F150!! Cop said something that it was over 10,000 pounds and looked commercial. It looks plain as day. Made him drop the trailer and wait 12 hours to pick it up. He almost missed the championship races. When those cops want to be ********, they will.
05-28-2017, 07:26 PM
#35
Rennlist Member
Can I get a sanity check here. Not being a lawyer, I find long winded sentences difficult to interpret.
From the MA RMV site (and seen on many other sites):
Class A - Any combination of vehicles with a GVWR of 26,001 or more pounds provided the GVWR of the vehicle(s) being towed is in excess of 10,000 pounds.
If you have a truck with GVWR 14000 and trailer with GVWR 12000 that is a combined rating of 26000, 1 pound under the limit. Am I correct in interpreting the law that with a 26000 combined weight that I would not need a CDL even though the trailer is 12000. I'm interpreting it as 'your rating is 26001 pounds AND your trailer rating is 10000 plus.'
From the MA RMV site (and seen on many other sites):
Class A - Any combination of vehicles with a GVWR of 26,001 or more pounds provided the GVWR of the vehicle(s) being towed is in excess of 10,000 pounds.
If you have a truck with GVWR 14000 and trailer with GVWR 12000 that is a combined rating of 26000, 1 pound under the limit. Am I correct in interpreting the law that with a 26000 combined weight that I would not need a CDL even though the trailer is 12000. I'm interpreting it as 'your rating is 26001 pounds AND your trailer rating is 10000 plus.'
05-28-2017, 09:34 PM
#36
Rennlist Member
Can I get a sanity check here. Not being a lawyer, I find long winded sentences difficult to interpret.
From the MA RMV site (and seen on many other sites):
Class A - Any combination of vehicles with a GVWR of 26,001 or more pounds provided the GVWR of the vehicle(s) being towed is in excess of 10,000 pounds.
If you have a truck with GVWR 14000 and trailer with GVWR 12000 that is a combined rating of 26000, 1 pound under the limit. Am I correct in interpreting the law that with a 26000 combined weight that I would not need a CDL even though the trailer is 12000. I'm interpreting it as 'your rating is 26001 pounds AND your trailer rating is 10000 plus.'
From the MA RMV site (and seen on many other sites):
Class A - Any combination of vehicles with a GVWR of 26,001 or more pounds provided the GVWR of the vehicle(s) being towed is in excess of 10,000 pounds.
If you have a truck with GVWR 14000 and trailer with GVWR 12000 that is a combined rating of 26000, 1 pound under the limit. Am I correct in interpreting the law that with a 26000 combined weight that I would not need a CDL even though the trailer is 12000. I'm interpreting it as 'your rating is 26001 pounds AND your trailer rating is 10000 plus.'
It could easily be worded to say that towing in excess of 10,000# requires a CDL. It doesn't. It says combos exceeding 26,000 and towing more than 10,000. Have to check both boxes.
That said, I'd print that statute out and keep a copy in the glovebox because not all LEOs are as fluent in the language.
Edit to add:. Even easier, your situation falls squarely within the explicit definition of a Class D in the Mass website I linked to earlier in the thread.
It says: Class D - Any single passenger vehicle or combination, except a semi-trailer unit, truck-trailer combination, tractor, or truck with a gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) over 26,000 lbs., bus or school bus
05-28-2017, 09:59 PM
#37
Rennlist Member
I agree with your read of the language. It's an AND not an OR.
It could easily be worded to say that towing in excess of 10,000# requires a CDL. It doesn't. It says combos exceeding 26,000 and towing more than 10,000. Have to check both boxes.
That said, I'd print that statute out and keep a copy in the glovebox because not all LEOs are as fluent in the language.
Edit to add:. Even easier, your situation falls squarely within the explicit definition of a Class D in the Mass website I linked to earlier in the thread.
It says: Class D - Any single passenger vehicle or combination, except a semi-trailer unit, truck-trailer combination, tractor, or truck with a gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) over 26,000 lbs., bus or school bus
It could easily be worded to say that towing in excess of 10,000# requires a CDL. It doesn't. It says combos exceeding 26,000 and towing more than 10,000. Have to check both boxes.
That said, I'd print that statute out and keep a copy in the glovebox because not all LEOs are as fluent in the language.
Edit to add:. Even easier, your situation falls squarely within the explicit definition of a Class D in the Mass website I linked to earlier in the thread.
It says: Class D - Any single passenger vehicle or combination, except a semi-trailer unit, truck-trailer combination, tractor, or truck with a gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) over 26,000 lbs., bus or school bus
05-31-2017, 12:06 PM
#38
Rennlist Member
Keep in mind that some states (NY, I believe) have limits on the width of the axles (96 inches). Maine allows 102 inch axles, due to the wood products industry, so you are legal in Maine if you have wider axles. In NY I am told the width is limited to 96 inch axles on any state roads, like the ones from the Interstates to The Glen. I've heard of plenty of people with horse trailers getting pulled over in NY once they are off the Interstates (where the 102" limit exists) and I would bet anyone with a race car on a trailer might be as easy a target as a horse trailer for a cop having a bad day. I did get stopped one night on the way back for a tail light being out but the cop was a decent guy and I was able to get the plug working again. He never mentioned the width of my axles, but now that I mention this I realize I've probably jinxed myself. As I was on the Interstate he couldn't have done anything for the width but I still felt lucky,
If you are unsure of your weight go to a big truck stop and get weighed. You can also figure out the load on your truck to check for balance. I agree the regs. are unclear but if you have registered for a bit more than your combined weight limit you are in good shape. Being over the registered weight and you've brought problems on yourself. In Maine any truck over 5500 pounds has to be registered as a commercial registration, but you don't need a CDL unless you exceed the max weight limit of somewhere over 21,000 pounds, I believe. So there is a distinction between a Commercial Registration and Commercial License, just to obfuscate the issue even more. Town/city clerks are pretty confused, as well as the police.
One last thing: in Maine if you don't pull over for a fuel check if you are driving a diesel can be a big mistake. I pulled into one once and the cop asked if he could dip my fuel to see if I was running heating oil (much cheaper but had red dye in it that last for 5 tankfulls). I nicely asked what would happen if I said no and he said it was an automatic $5000 penalty, and points on my license. Of course I let him check!
If you are unsure of your weight go to a big truck stop and get weighed. You can also figure out the load on your truck to check for balance. I agree the regs. are unclear but if you have registered for a bit more than your combined weight limit you are in good shape. Being over the registered weight and you've brought problems on yourself. In Maine any truck over 5500 pounds has to be registered as a commercial registration, but you don't need a CDL unless you exceed the max weight limit of somewhere over 21,000 pounds, I believe. So there is a distinction between a Commercial Registration and Commercial License, just to obfuscate the issue even more. Town/city clerks are pretty confused, as well as the police.
One last thing: in Maine if you don't pull over for a fuel check if you are driving a diesel can be a big mistake. I pulled into one once and the cop asked if he could dip my fuel to see if I was running heating oil (much cheaper but had red dye in it that last for 5 tankfulls). I nicely asked what would happen if I said no and he said it was an automatic $5000 penalty, and points on my license. Of course I let him check!
05-31-2017, 12:42 PM
#39
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A few years back driving to WGI I saw a flatbed with a race car on the back pulled over by NYS Troopers. Those guys went to the same event and said Trooper threw the book at them for having an out of state flat bed. No log book, not using amber lights, improper license for interstate use, etc., etc.
The other issue is how the tow vehicle is titled. In an attempt to grab more money Connecticut started to register anything between 8,500 and 10,000 pounds as a "Combination" vehicle. Which sort of like half personal/half commercial. Causes issues when you tow out of state because plate says "COMB" which ever other state thinks is commercial.
Most of the larger SUVs in the state carrying no more than a few kids have COMB plates on them now.
Again, for no other reason than trying to grab more revenue.
The other issue is how the tow vehicle is titled. In an attempt to grab more money Connecticut started to register anything between 8,500 and 10,000 pounds as a "Combination" vehicle. Which sort of like half personal/half commercial. Causes issues when you tow out of state because plate says "COMB" which ever other state thinks is commercial.
Most of the larger SUVs in the state carrying no more than a few kids have COMB plates on them now.
Again, for no other reason than trying to grab more revenue.
05-31-2017, 12:57 PM
#40
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
I was pulled over two weeks ago in the Chicago area because I was in the left lane and driving the car speed limit.
Trooper let me off with a written warning, but not before asking me plenty of leading questions that you need to answer correctly.
Do you have sponsors.
Is there prize money.
Anything along these lines and they can call you commercial.
My rig is a GMC pick up with a 43' triple axle gooseneck. No name on the side by design.
He looked at the trailer plate (probably for rated weight capacity)
Thanks
Ed
Trooper let me off with a written warning, but not before asking me plenty of leading questions that you need to answer correctly.
Do you have sponsors.
Is there prize money.
Anything along these lines and they can call you commercial.
My rig is a GMC pick up with a 43' triple axle gooseneck. No name on the side by design.
He looked at the trailer plate (probably for rated weight capacity)
Thanks
Ed
05-31-2017, 02:17 PM
#41
Rennlist Member
A few years back driving to WGI I saw a flatbed with a race car on the back pulled over by NYS Troopers. Those guys went to the same event and said Trooper threw the book at them for having an out of state flat bed. No log book, not using amber lights, improper license for interstate use, etc., etc.
The other issue is how the tow vehicle is titled. In an attempt to grab more money Connecticut started to register anything between 8,500 and 10,000 pounds as a "Combination" vehicle. Which sort of like half personal/half commercial. Causes issues when you tow out of state because plate says "COMB" which ever other state thinks is commercial.
Most of the larger SUVs in the state carrying no more than a few kids have COMB plates on them now.
Again, for no other reason than trying to grab more revenue.
The other issue is how the tow vehicle is titled. In an attempt to grab more money Connecticut started to register anything between 8,500 and 10,000 pounds as a "Combination" vehicle. Which sort of like half personal/half commercial. Causes issues when you tow out of state because plate says "COMB" which ever other state thinks is commercial.
Most of the larger SUVs in the state carrying no more than a few kids have COMB plates on them now.
Again, for no other reason than trying to grab more revenue.
As others have said, obey the law and hope that if you do get pulled over that it is 1) a cop who actually knows the trailer laws and 2) isn't having a sh*tty day.
05-31-2017, 03:02 PM
#42
Nordschleife Master
Wow just checked and my Ram 2500 and trailer are 26,600 GWVR. Called Florida DMV and sure enough I can get a ticket and nasty stuff everywhere without a CDL. So have to take a written test and then using MY vehicle I can go to a private tester ($300) and they go over Pre-Drive Check, maneuvering, and open road test. This will give me a Restricted CDL (no air-brake vehicles) but satisfy my apparent issues. So I have towed roughly 15K miles this way over the past 18 months with no issues. Of course now that I know it, I will get stopped. Well I start reading now...
05-14-2019, 11:09 AM
#43
Nordschleife Master
Sorry to bring this back to life, but I'm in the market for a super C rig (>26,001 lbs) to pull my trailer. I just got off the phone with Alabama Law enforcement motor carrier division and I specifically asked about towing a race car to club events. He was extremely helpful and pointed me to "390.3 question 21" of the FMCSA (see below).
"Question 21: Does the exemption in §390.3(f)(3) for the "occasional transportation of personal property by individuals not for compensation nor in the furtherance of a commercial enterprise" apply to persons who occasionally use CMVs to transport cars, boats, horses, etc., to races, tournaments, shows or similar events, even if prize money is offered at these events?
Guidance: The exemption would apply to this kind of transportation, provided: (1) The underlying activities are not undertaken for profit, i.e., (a) prize money is declared as ordinary income for tax purposes, and (b) the cost of the underlying activities is not deducted as a business expense for tax purposes; and, where relevant; (2) corporate sponsorship is not involved. Drivers must confer with their State of licensure to determine the licensing provisions to which they are subject."
Since Alabama does not require me to have a CDL for an RV (even with a GWCR above 26,001) he says that I am good to go in all states (but suggested that I check with CA, since they "are a bit strange"). He suggested that I print the regulations and carry with me at all time.
From the AL code:
"QUALIFIED MOTOR VEHICLE A qualified motor vehicle is a motor vehicle used, designed, or maintained for the transportation of persons or property having: • two axles and a gross vehicle weight or registered gross vehicle weight in excess of 26,000 pounds (11,793.401 kilograms); or • three or more axles, regardless of weight; or • used in combination, when the gross vehicle weight or registered gross vehicle weight of such combination exceeds 26,000 pounds (11,793.401 kilograms). Qualified Motor Vehicles do not include recreational vehicles unless they are used in conjunction with any business endeavor. Recreational vehicles are vehicles such as motor homes, pickup trucks with attached campers and buses when used exclusively for personal pleasure by an individual."
"Question 21: Does the exemption in §390.3(f)(3) for the "occasional transportation of personal property by individuals not for compensation nor in the furtherance of a commercial enterprise" apply to persons who occasionally use CMVs to transport cars, boats, horses, etc., to races, tournaments, shows or similar events, even if prize money is offered at these events?
Guidance: The exemption would apply to this kind of transportation, provided: (1) The underlying activities are not undertaken for profit, i.e., (a) prize money is declared as ordinary income for tax purposes, and (b) the cost of the underlying activities is not deducted as a business expense for tax purposes; and, where relevant; (2) corporate sponsorship is not involved. Drivers must confer with their State of licensure to determine the licensing provisions to which they are subject."
Since Alabama does not require me to have a CDL for an RV (even with a GWCR above 26,001) he says that I am good to go in all states (but suggested that I check with CA, since they "are a bit strange"). He suggested that I print the regulations and carry with me at all time.
From the AL code:
"QUALIFIED MOTOR VEHICLE A qualified motor vehicle is a motor vehicle used, designed, or maintained for the transportation of persons or property having: • two axles and a gross vehicle weight or registered gross vehicle weight in excess of 26,000 pounds (11,793.401 kilograms); or • three or more axles, regardless of weight; or • used in combination, when the gross vehicle weight or registered gross vehicle weight of such combination exceeds 26,000 pounds (11,793.401 kilograms). Qualified Motor Vehicles do not include recreational vehicles unless they are used in conjunction with any business endeavor. Recreational vehicles are vehicles such as motor homes, pickup trucks with attached campers and buses when used exclusively for personal pleasure by an individual."
Last edited by Lemming; 05-14-2019 at 12:10 PM.
05-18-2019, 08:51 AM
#44
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Between my home in Orlando and the two most frequent tracks I drive, Sebring and Roebling, I've had no issues with my long rig. Looking to sell the 2012 Monaco coach. Haven't listed it yet. If anyone is interested PM me for details.