Hi - I just picked up a brand new 2024 CT4S and went to hook up the charger but my charging kit does not have the NEMA 14-50 plug. It only has the standard 120 volt plug. Should the 14-50 240 volt plug be included in my charging kit or was this an extra item I needed to spec?

I did not option the Mobile Charger Connect because I was under the impression the car should come with everything I need for level 2 charging at home as long as I had the proper 240 volt NEMA 14-50 outlet installed.

Thanks.

 

If the standard Mobile Charger Plus supplied with my 2023 is typical, then yes it should.

 

yes it should come with it, some dealers play games with the units, go back and demand the unit from them

 

Just curious if this could be due to the cable recall?

 

yes the PMC+/PMCC come with at least one 240V power supply cable - if you did not specify an alternative the NEMA 14-50 is the "standard" plug type included with the vehicle - it's listed in the standard equipment list on the Porsche USA website…

 

Thanks everyone and @ShiftyWolf yes, they said it was because there was a recall on the NEMA 14-50 cable and they wouldn't have any of the updated cables until some time in 2024. Thankfully my dealer realized that was a non-starter for pretty much everybody buying a new EV so they gave me and all their Taycan buyers new JuiceBox 40 charging stations.

 

wow - that's awesome - the JuiceBox is a better EVSE than the Porsche one anyways - so you scored!!!

https://www.taycanforum.com/forum/th...cc-pwcc.13886/

 

The recall fix will eventually put a 220V plug in for you, apparently the 240V has been negatively interacting with the typical homes in USA.

 

Porsche spec'd a 90C (194F) wire and insulation but Porsche is expecting it to play nice with residential NEMA sockets which are not rated for 90C nominal electrical temperature (your typical Leviton NEMA 14-50 socket sold at home Depot is a 60C (140F) electrical component) - over time Porsche's EVSE (the PCM+/PMCC) and it's excessive nominal operating temperature of 170F or higher is thermally stressing the cheap $12 Leviton 60C NEMA socket most electrician install or are pre-existing in most home/businesses - over time an EVSE with 170F nominal operating temperatures will thermally fatigue the cheap plastic $12 NEMA sockets causing them to eventually fail/melt…see picture below for just one example of what running a 90C EVSE (Porsche PMC+/PMCC) will do over time to a 60-70C Residential grade NEMA 14-50 socket.




this is because Porsche uses 10 AWG wire inside it's 14" NEMA 14-50/6-50 power supply cable - electrical engineering tables for 240V/40 amp load show a predictable temperature delta of 90F above ambient conditions for 40 amp 9.6 kW loads - which is exactly what we're seeing with the Porsche design - this behavior is inline with expected and established Electrical Engineering guidelines for AC power vs. wire gauge…

most other 9.6 kW mobile EVSE's sold in North America (some for $200 or less) ship their NEMA 14-50/6-50 power supply cables with 8/6 AWG gauge wire - and the EE tables for that class of wire predict and can be measured to experience a delta of less than 40F above ambient conditions vs. Porsche's 90F delta from ambient conditions.

the different in nominal operating termpeature is 100% predictable, foreseeable, and completely inline with existing and decades old engineering tables that predict/measure thermal loads for given AC power loads on specified gauge wire - this is science/engineering and is not speculation. Any qualified engineer can lookup the expected temperature delta for 10 AWG wire vs. 8 AWG vs. 6 AWG - Porsche' product is achieving 90F "delta" above ambient temp - so if ambient temp of the power supply cable is 65F - the engineering tables for 10 AWG wire for 9.6 kW 40 amp load predict a demonstrated 70-90F "delta" above ambient (or about 155F - my picture below shows 164F operating temperature in 64F ambient conditions) - Porsche's power supply cable exactly matches expectations for 10 AWG wire with a 9.6 kW 40 amp load.

swapping to 8 or 6 gauge wire would reduce the expected delta to 40F or less…decades old established engineering tables demonstrate/predict - it's not even remotely debatable. It's factual science/engineering.

Porsche' insistence of using 10 AWG wire for their NEMA 14-50/6-50 power supply cable means their product has a nominal operating temperature of 160F or higher - this is a POOR choice for a consumer grade product intended for use in a residential setting.

according to electrical engineering and residential building codes - 10 AWG wire is a 30 amp rated wire…Porsche made a bad decision and continues to double down on this decision with this recall. A thermal sensor means they can now prevent overheating by either reducing charing load (lower amps during the charging session) or shutting down the charger - this means their EVSE will charge your EV more slowly or terminate the charging session to avoid the thermal problems - other mobile EVSE's can charge at 9.6 kW with out resorting to session interruption or charge rate reductions. So Porsche's "fix" will be safer and address the failure mode, but leave the EV owner with longer than necessary charging sessions, or interrupted/terminated charging sessions such that your EV is not fully charged in the morning due to the thermal sensor detecting and confirming Porsche's own original design problem.

the thermal sensor should address the safety issue of "melted" NEMA sockets - but without a change in wire gauge it will not address the core issue - they have designed and implemented a product that has a required operational temperature in excess of 160F - this sort of operating temperature is completely un-necessary for this product, use case, or application - and competitive EVSE alternatives operate with identical charging performance at much lower nominal operating temperatures…



the difference in cost for 10 AWG wire vs. 8/6 AWG wire for 14" of power supply cable should be less than $2 cost of goods - probably a LOT less. Keep in mind if you purchase a PMC+/PMCC separately from suncoast and entire PMC+/PMCC kit will run you north of $3000 - and for this you get a mobile EVSE that is cost reduced on $2 (or less) worth of 14" worth of Copper leading to the product high operating temperature. Competitive high quality alternatives can be had for $700 or less and have no systemic thermal issue based on customer usage for the past several years. Porsche's EVSE is the most expensive mobile EVSE on the market and has more problems than any EVSE I've used since 2011.

8/6 gauge wire in their 14" power supply cable would have avoided this entire affair and it would've played soooo much nicer with existing infrastructure in that it' nominal operating temperature would not be hot enough to thermally stress the vast majority of residential NEMA sockets leading to eventual failure.

one Taycan customer made his own NEMA 14-50 PMC+/PMCC supply cable substituting 6 gauge wire for the Porsche factory 10 AWG wire - using the factory cable the power supply cable plug typically achieve nominal operating temperatures of 170F or higher with a 65 ambient temperature - using his modified cable with 6 gauge wire - the nominal operating temperature of the modified NEMA 14-50 power supply cable is now 90F or less (30F typical delta) well below any temperature that would melt your typical plastic residential socket.

Porsche's 90C 10 AWG power supply cable is safe/fine/appropirate in isolation to itself - but it's a poor design decision when combined with 60C residential grade electrical components.

• Porsche's EVSE is the most expensive mobile EVSE sold in North America - north of $3000 if purchased separately form the vehicle
  • even the "discount" price of $1120 for the PMCC when order w/vehicle is about 2x more costly than a high quality alternative mobile 9.6 kW EVSE that won't overheat.
• Porsche's mobile EVSE is the only 240V/40 amp/9.6 kW EVSE sold in north America with 10 AWG wire for a 40 amp 9.6 kW load
• North American building codes require 8/6 gauge wire for 50/40 amp electrical loads - probably 6 AWG more often than not (which is better)
• Porsche's own TBS bulletin suggest 6 gauge wire for residential 50 amp circuit installs, but their own power supply cable ships with 10 AWG wire - https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/20...22530-0001.pdf
• if an electrician hard-wired a 9.6 kW 240V/40 amp EVSE with 10 AWG wire - it would _FAIL_ code inspection and they would make them do it over with 8 or 6 AWG wire - yet this is exactly in essences what Porsche is shipping
  • Porsche _OWN_ technical bulletin recommends/requires 6 AWG wire for a 50 amp circuit in North America and a Hubble Commercial grade socket - so Porsche's _OWN_ technical document recommends 6 AWG wire from the breaker to the NEMA socket - but then you're supposed to plug in their 10 AWG power supply cable which is being fed by 6 AWG wire - this is like saying you need 1/2" pipe from the source to the outlet - and then downgrading the plumbing to 1/4" for the last 14" inch - but shove the same amount of water through the last 14" of 1/4 pipe - no wonder the damm thing gets so hot…

the thermal sensor is a partial solution - in that it does not address the core problem that Porsche's EVSE is simply running too hot for the typical 60C environment it's expected to operate in.

Alternative/highquality/competitive EVSE for much less money do not achieve 170F+ nominal operating temperatures for their 9.6 kW loads.

Porsche is simply wrong in this space. And their insistence on sticking with their 10 AWG wire design and having a thermal sensor installed to either cut off charging or reduce charging load based on measured thermals will keep their EVSE as a substandard solutions.

As just one example: Tesla Mobile EVSE running at a full 40 amps (9.6 kw) just like the Porsche alternative runs at nominal operating temperatures of 120F or less - (normally 105F) and delivers the exact same charging capacity with a 60-70F temperature delta (less) performing the same operation. It is just one example of several non-Porsche EVSE's that deliver 9.6 kW of charging capacity and yet do not suffer from excessive nominal operating temperatures. Tesla's mobile EVSE is less than $300 - or less money than Porsche will charge you for their 10 AWG NEMA 6-50 cable for their mobile EVSE if you purchase it separately.

Porsche's stubbornness and refusal to acknowledge their poor engineering choice in this space will keep their EVSE in the category of "poor choice" for your EV charging needs, and it will remain the most expensive combination EVSE/toaster oven on the market.

A simple/easy change for $2 worth of COG's would lower their operating temperature at least 40F and be far less stressful to the associated electrical components it's required to operate with.

I shared my concerns and analysis with Porsche as to their nominal operating temperature in July of 2020 - they have not responded to my inquiry. I have consulted with the best electrical engineers in the world in silly-con valley - and Porsche's choice of 10 AWG according to certified EE's and every electrical engineer I've ever spoken to is indefensible for a consumer grade product.

Porsche is wrong pure and simple, and the solution is both a thermal sensor & 8/6 gauge wire - until they swap the wire their unit will still achieve excess operating temperatures (it's science not speculation) and all the thermal sensor can do is reduce the charging load or shut off the charging session leaving your EV (Taycan or Macan EV) not fully charged in the morning.

The solution is not to detect when the cable is "too hot" and shut down - the solution is make the cable run cooler - demonstrably alternative EVSE's run cooler than the Porsche units, and the change is simple, proven, and follow best practice based on decades of electrical engineering tables and specifications.

Porsche is wrong and their EVSE is substandard in the North American market - unless the recall also addresses the wire gauge - their "fix" will not change that.

 

Thanks @daveo4porsche for the additional clarification. I’ve been using the Juicebox and charged my car for 3 hours and it charged at 7.1 kW and the plug did not get hot at all. I was worried reading all the stories of how the outlets melted b/c I didn’t read about the need for a heavy duty NEMA 14-50 outlet but mine has had no issues thus far, though 7.1 kW isn’t blazing fast either.

 

load doesn't matter - wire gauge matters - with appropriate wire gauge virtually _ANY_ electrical load will not result in high nominal operating termperatures - hardwired EVSE's don't have this problem - because electrician installed wire appropriate for the load - so the problem comes down to "mobile" EVSE's and the choices made by the EVSE vendor for the wire gauge in their power supply cables.

Porsche is the _ONLY_ EVSE vendor in North America shipping a 10 AWG power supply cable for 9.6 kW/40 amp EVSE
all other mobile EVSE vendors have 8 or 6 gauge wire for their NEMA 14-50/6-50 power supply cables.

the Porsche Wall charger does not have this issue because it's a hardwired EVSE and your electrical will pick wire gauge to match it's expected load.

better wire = cooler operating temperatures.

 

here is a clipper creek EVSE running at 9.6 kW from a 240V 40 amp source - clipper creek's power supply cable uses 8 AWG wire - and it's nominal operating temperature is 110F - a full 54F delta lower than Porsche's EVSE running from the very same sort of circuit.

keep in mind this is the exact same charging capacity 9.6 kW 240V @ 40 amps - there is _NO_ performance different in charging any EV - the only difference is ClipperCreek ships with an appropriate 8 AWG wire vs. Porsche's 10 AWG wire for the power supply cable. ClipperCreeks' nominal operating temperature is well below the 60-70C rating of residential grade NEMA sockets…

picture source: https://www.taycanforum.com/forum/th...-12#post-30183

 

and here is the post where a Taycan customer modified his porsche factory cable and substituted 8 AWG wire - nominal operating temperatures dropped by a delta of 60-80F less with the 8 AWG copper wire vs. the factory 10 AWG wire…this is expected based on known values from electrical engineering tables…so no surprise at the results.

https://www.taycanforum.com/forum/th...3/#post-262077

highlights/summary:

• ambient temps are 77F
• operating temperatures with factory-stock power supply cable 170F - 200F at various points
• operating temperatures with modified 8 AWG power supply wire - 112F

 

This is insane. Can't believe Porsche cheaped out on a stupid wire that would cost them maybe 50 cents when we are paying them thousands of dollars for silly trim and sticker options. One would think just the safety hazard alone of burning down their customer's homes and the customer service issues of people having to deal with the overheating would cause Porsche to immediately implement a simple fix, but... SMH.

I just installed a subwoofer in my BMW X3 with a 500 watt amp and Rockford Fosgate recommended a 4 gauge power wire which I thought was insanely overkill, but I still stuck w/ the 4 gauge wire. Can't believe Porsche expects us to charge an electrical car that takes vastly more power than what is being drawn by my car amplifier, with 10 gauge wire.

 

I agree - as you can tell

but i think Porsche is out of the loop on this one

The PMC+/PMCC is a shared component/accessory across VW/Audi/Porsche product lines - i’m thinking someone at VW is pulling the strings on this one and do not fully appreciate the level of sh*tty their shared accessory achieves in the North American market