AlexCeres

It’s basically the same system

AtTheGlen

In 2010, I traded my 5-year-old 911 Carrera S (997.1) for a 2010 911 Turbo (997.2), I was fascinated by stories at the time about PDK and twin-turbo technology, and my 911 purchases have escalated ever since, even though a 911 GTS would offer all the performance I would typically use on the street. So why is it that I have zero regrets not getting a Taycan Turbo or Turbo S instead of my 2023 Taycan GTS? When I took delivery at the LA PEC, I drove a Taycan Turbo S for the track experience as they do not have a GTS in the fleet, so I had a same-day comparison of the two cars as I drove home. I have owned fast cars, but this Taycan is crazy fast. I can't imagine that a Taycan Turbo S would provide me with more driving excitement than I'm experiencing (and can experience on most roads) in the GTS. My 992 911 Turbo S is faster to 60 mph, but speed is achieved with so much less drama in the Taycan (whoooossshhhh) compared to the 911 with the experience of the sport exhaust, revving to the meat of the torque and power bands, PDK Sport+ shifts, etc. Both are great cars but different in their own exceptional ways.

I like the GTS nameplate and the modifications specifically done to this model that, with the optional rear-wheel steering, PDCC-Sport, PCCBs, etc., have made this a phenomenally great handling and performing car. It does, as some have said, shrink around you when driving and the battery weight appears to be offset when cornering by the low center of gravity and GTS-tuned suspension.

I do think if someone is pricing a GTS or a Turbo and with their desired options (that are standard on the Turbo S) and they are in Turbo S price territory, the Turbo S might be the right choice. This happened when I went to a 911 Turbo S in 2015 because a Turbo with the options I wanted and that were standard on the 911 Turbo S resulted in my Turbo being only $8K less than the 911 TTS.

The following statements about the GTS from the Porsche Website speak to why I like this model:

"Jump in, buckle up and get your pulse racing: the new Taycan GTS embodies pure Porsche E-Performance. 440kW (598PS) of overboost power with Launch Control, a GTS-specific drivetrain tune for increased agility and the GTS specific Porsche Electric Sport Sound. Everything you need to make every drive an event."

"SportDesign further enhances the aggressive, athletic look of the Taycan GTS. With additional carbon fiber design elements and bold inlays and skirts on the body, the Porsche sporty DNA is felt at every glance."

"The LED-Matrix Design Headlights in black including Porsche Dynamic Light System Plus (PDLS Plus) leave no doubt about their GTS DNA. With daytime running light element trims in Satin Black and 3D track graphics, they also incorporate active turning lights (Porsche Dynamic Lighting System) to guide your adventures."

"The adaptive air suspension with a GTS-specific tune and Porsche Active Suspension Management (PASM) provides even more engagement: an electronic damping control system that adjusts the damping force, based on current road conditions and your driving style. This reduces body roll and improves comfort." (And Porsche Active Torque Vectoring Plus is standard as well as it is on the Turbo S.) And...

"The appearance of the Taycan GTS has black elements all around, giving it an even more sporty look. The black wheels, the light strip with 'PORSCHE' logo, the rear 'Taycan GTS' logo and the GTS logo on the inlays of the side skirts all add to its aggressive appearance."

Those are Marketing's words. I couldn't have said it better.

Dr. G7

How did you conclude the inconsequential bit?

j.w.s

Far from inconsequential in my view. PSCBs and PCCBs look awesome, I love that they never look dirty, and my calculations show that for normal driving (not track use) PSCBs (not PCCBs) may be cheaper than steel brakes after say 80-120K+ miles if they last as long as folks say. A bit expensive, but PSCBs are worth it to me! - edited to specify that I'm talking PSCBs not PCCBs.

daveo4porsche

PCCB's "super powers" are:

1. weight
2. thermal endurance
3. lower brake dust\\
4. appearance

reasons:

1. lower weight on a 5,100 lbs sports sedan - yeah I'll take it - but not our biggest problem
2. car can only run "flat out" for 15-20 minutes - not enough time to thermally soak _ANY_ porsche brake system - you don't need nor can you use the thermal endurance of a ceramic brake rotor in 30 minutes or less of full-pace at the limits driving - porsche's excellent cast-iron alternatives are more than a match for anything in that time frame with no expected or demonstrated brake fade
3. according to Porsche 90% of this vehicle's deceleration is handled by regen - which generates no brake dust - so not sure you need this super power on a high-regen vehicle
4. yes they look great, but I'm not sure if this is objectively true vs. we've been conditioned to believe it's true - the force is strong w/Porsche marketing and I'm deeply under their influence, and I'm personally in the camp of "they look great" - but again I'm soooo screwed up I don't know where truth begins and porsche marketing ends…

my next Taycan will _NOT_ have PCCB's - they are pointless, unnecessary and purely ornamental with no tangible increase in any performance metric.

I've run PCCB's and Porsche's factory stock brakes on my GT3's for years (997.2, 991.1, 991.2) - it takes more than 25-30 minute of full pace driving on track before I start to get any brake fade on porsche's excellent factory cast-iron brakes - only then am I able to detect less brake fade with PCCB's after being on track at full pace for more than 25 minutes - Taycan can't run on track at full pace for 25 minutes - you'll either overheat the battery or literally run out of battery power before you can thermally soak the excellent cast-iron brakes.

there are at least 3 things you'll run out of w/Taycan before the brakes when track driving:

1. battery thermal capacity
2. battery power
3. 5,100 lbs sports sedan on street tires doesn't do well for much more than 4+ laps before tires are "overwhelmed" lowering grip/pace and no longer running at full pace thereby stressing the brakes "less" once the tires are compromised and need to cool.

brakes and their thermal capacity (pccb's main advantage) is _NOT_ the limiting factor for Taycan.

if I could run Taycan for more than 30 minutes at full pace (like a GT3 or other ICE track cars/sport sedans) then PCCB's might come into play…I look forward to future Porsche EV's where PCCB's might have some benefit for longer track sessions, but current gen (and likely .2 gen) Taycan's are not that vehicle.

Dr. G7

I'm on the same page. I'm sold on regen braking...I am sooooooo fed up of cleaning grimy wheels. All the Spray on rinse off is total marketing hype. I spend hours scrubbing and polishing and two days later:

Dr. G7

Hmmm. You work for Porsche?

bluelines1974

I think the PSCBs are what really kill the PCCB option on the Taycan. There is no more stopping power from any of the three braking options, as far as I can tell, and except under very extreme track driving, it seems wildly unlikely the steel brakes would overheat and fade. So the only true benefit is the lack of brake dust, which is equally provided by the PSCBs and PCCBs.

bluelines1974

Is that actually brake dust, though, or just general road grime? PCCBs or not, you're still going to have dirty wheels if you drive on dirty roads.

Dr. G7

Drive a Porsche on dirty roads? Never.

Photo was online sample. Too embarrassed to show my ICE's.

AtTheGlen

Thinking about your question, I have come to the conclusion that Porsche ought to make me an honorary employee with all applicable benefits including sizeable discounts on Porsche vehicles. Here's how I came to that conclusion. I've just ordered our 10th Porsche since 1998 which was a 1999 911 Carrera (996). Porsche makes a nice margin not only on the well-spec'd cars that I have ordered, but also, I agree on a trade-in price that will assure additional profit on that side. So, yeah. Using the business metric "Return on Employee", I suspect that my number over the years has eclipsed some workers in Germany. So if any members of Porsche NA or Porsche GMBH are reading this, please contact me for discussions regarding my employee discount. Thank you.

MaxLTV

Peak torque is the same, but GTS maintains that torque only for the first 4K RPM (out of 15.5K) and then quickly drops. Turbo's torque starts dropping after 4.5K RPM and drops much slower. In other words, up until about ~30-35MPH (4K RPM in first gear) they indeed will be identical, and then Turbo will have 20% more power AND torque at any higher speed.

+1 to not needing PCCBs. I'd go with PSCBs instead - all the benefits of PCCBs except for lighter weight. Irons are fully sufficient for any reasonable road use too.

daveo4porsche

if most of your stopping (90%) is provided by regen (which it is on Taycan and other high-regen EV's) then there is also a dramatic reduction in brake dust

brake dust _IS_ the brake rotor/pad material - brake pads on Taycan (and other EV's) last over 250,000 miles - that is way way way less brake dust "by design" and PSCB's further mitigate that "problem"

so yeah - not sure PCCB's are really an advantage on Taycan in any way.

PSCB's is about as far as I'd go in terms of brake options - and is in fact how far I've gone for my next post 2024 Taycan…I'm waiting for a refresh before I swap my 2020 Taycan Turbo w/PCCB's - never again on the PCCB's for an EV unless I can run on track full power/pace for more than 20 minutes before needing a "rest".

vcp13

do the PCCB on a taycan feel like PCCB on a sports car? one thing i dont love about the taycan is that it is slow to brake. obviously a heffer with steels and I'm used to sports cars wit PCCBs.

daveo4porsche

tire grip stops a car not the brakes - sports cars tend to have sticker tires hence the better "feel" for braking - I've driven taycan with and without PCCB's I do not detect a lot of "feel" difference - especially for normal braking since due to regen the friction brakes are un-involved and it's all handled by regen.