Jason Zhang

The real fastest charging would be swapping the battery, but we don't have that in NA (yet?)

Whoopsy

That would technically be CHANGING battery instead of CHARGING battery wouldn't it?

Doing such a thing would open up a big can of worms. Do car makers sell you the car but not the battery? Would the battery module be on a lease? Or a rental? Or would the battery be like a shopping cart in supermarket, communal item that everyone shares?

To expand that further, how about at 'charging stations', one just swap the whole car instead? Leaving behind a depleted car to be charged and swap to a fully charged car to continue the journey?

Whoopsy

it may not even take 9 years to have such a scenario, one reason I consider current EVs are all 'disposable' items like iPhones. No matter how good they are now, it's still not worth it to keep for a long time, a better one is just around the corner.

I would much rather have very quick chargers everywhere, so car range won't matter at all and battery can be made smaller and lighter, gaining more efficiency in the process by not having to carry big and heavy batteries . Who needs 300-400 or 500 miles range when fast chargers are as numerous and convenient as gas stations?

Needsdecaf

VERY true.

People who aren't versed in long-hauling EV's get hung up on the numbers. Range? Why quote 0-100 battery pack range? It's completely useless. You don't run your pack 0-100 and then charge it up again. You run in the middle. And unlike refueling, DC fast charging doesn't happen at a constant rate. Imagine pulling up to the pump, having it start slow, then start pumping faster, then super fast for a bit, then slowing down, and down, and down, until it was barely dribbling into your tank. Would you stay and wait until it was 100%? No, you'd leave and go fill up further down the road.

(I know you know this having multiple EV's, just elaborating your point).

If you watch any BEV long distance trip video, the goal is to find the sweet spot between charging stops where you maximize the recharge rate. Something like a Mustang Mach E or Polestar charge so slowly over 80%, it's literally not even worth it to stay. So why keep charging? Just move on to the next charger. So as you say, more fast chargers mean more frequent but faster stops.

kort677

I don't necessarily agree with this view, when road tripping I sometimes run the car down to very low SOC, just this weekend I took it down to 5 miles of range remaining. My car, my driving style has the car running at about <240 mile of range and because I ran into an EA unit with only 1 charger working and 2 cars ahead of me to charge I was forced to run the SOC down. so 100 down to zero is indeed part of my calculations when road tripping.

kort677

I agree with this point, I treat EVs like people treat Iphones. I traded in my first tesla, late 2013 build, once the dual ones with AP arrived in 2015. I traded that one in for a model 3 in 2018 and now I am in the taycan since February on a 3 year lease which I will probably roll out of as soon as porsche is willing to roll it into a new one

Needsdecaf

You mis-read what I wrote. I'm not saying you don't run it down to low SOC. Nor am I saying you don't charge to 100%. What I'm saying is you don't fast charge 0-100%. Dropping to a low SOC as you did is beneficial because the battery can accept charge faster there. But charging above a battery's sweet spot is on the wrong side of the time / travel balance. You charge at home to 100%, run it down low and then when DCFC'ing, charge until your charge rate drops significantly. Probably below 50 kW.

You also happen to own one of the few BEV's that can DCFC at high speeds deep into the higher SOC's. No other vehicles are still close to 100 kW above 80% SOC. In general, this does not apply to most other BEV's (including Teslas).

kort677

sorry I still do not concur.
for example when I took it down to that very low SOC I charged it right up to 98% because I needed the range for that days trip. I then drove to where I needed to go, then started my trek home stopping to top off from 45% TO 97%
my car's range and my driving style seems to get only around 220-240 miles of range @ 100% SOC.
my run from the last charge to home was about 165 miles and I had about 55 miles of range upon arriving at home.

Needsdecaf

You can chose to not concur all you want, doesn't mean you are correct.

Again, i'm not saying you can't do what you did. But you cost yourself time. If you charged low SOC to 98%, then charged 45% to 97%, you should have absolutely let it run down again to low SOC, charged to 60-70% and then charged again. This assumes two things, though. 1) That charging speed is your priority, not fitting charging into your plans and 2) You have the chargers available to do what I suggest. However, I'm not incorrect. You're definitely better spending less time charging over 60% and making more charging stops than you are charging deep into the battery's range. Don't believe me? Ask the guy who set the EV Cannonball record....in a Taycan.

https://insideevs.com/news/464763/po...onball-record/

kort677

you are making many assumptions that just aren't based on my reality which is that charging in the places I am traveling to requires the charge levels I am maintaining.

I have driven my tesla across the US, both E-W and N-S, I know all about driving the bottom of the battery method that you are espousing however that method cannot be employed where I am going.

here was last weeks trip, Jacksonville FL to Key Largo, Key Largo to Key West, Key West to Ft. Myers, Ft Myers to Tampa with a 30 mile R/T stop in Sarasota, Tampa to St. Pete, St. Pete to Jacksonville.

Southbound I charged in Port St. Lucie, Key Largo, used a destination charger in Key West, on the trip north, Florida City, then Port Charlotte, I was unable to charge in Ellenington because of disabled chargers and a wait of over an hour to access the one operational charger. so I skipped that charge used the car locally in Tampa which brought the SOC way low, got a charge in Welesy chapel the next morning from there down to st. Pete, then north to Jacksonville stopping in Bushnell.

please go ahead and plan my route so I can follow your methods of charging.

If I only charged to 60% at any of those places, especially the port charlotte stop my ability to make it to the next charger would be questionable, if I didn't charge to 100%. If I was running a low SOC method I would have been forced to wait for 2 mustangs to charge at Ellenington at a 150kw unit, necessitating an almost 2 hour charge stop, being that I put almost 100% charge into the car in Port Charlotte I was able to tough it out range wise.
as you noted the car is capable of taking in a high rate of charge even when at a high SOC, the extra 15 minutes I "wasted" charging to 100% saved me from a 2+ hour delay.

Whoopsy

Everyone will have their own individual requirements. Nothing wrong with that.

The general rule for fast charging, if distance requirements are not constraining, would be to only charge up to what's needed. Taycans can do 0-50% in about 11 mins, to 80% in 22 mins. To go from 80%-90% it's an extra 15 mins on top, and it's almost another 20 mins to go from 90%-100%. The extra time spent getting up there is not worth it for most people. You happened to be in a situation where you needed those extra %.

Needsdecaf

Exactly.

daveo4porsche

yeah - after about 85% the distance you're gaining is marginal vs. the time spent - and if you're cutting it that close you can make up the difference typically in driving style

the rule of thumb I've found is you get 1/2 the remaining charge about every 12 min…

you can go from 0-50 in about 12 min
50 - 75 in another 12 min
75 - 85 in another 12 min
85 - 93 in another 12 min
93 - 97 in another 12 min

you get the idea

but the range you're picking up assuming 250 miles of range is
125 miles range for 12 min
62.5 miles range for 12 min
31 miles range for 12 min
15 miles range for 12 min
7miles range fo 12 min

kort677

your assessment is correct and something that I am well aware of. and yes I need every mile of range that I can get. I just didn't care for the overly broad comment regarding how the extra time spent to top off the car is wasted time. If you need the charge the extra 10 or 15 minutes "wasted" will save you hours of time waiting for a flatbed when you are out of charge.
since porsche finally fixed the flaws in some of our cars that caused the many fail to charge incidents I am wary of running low on charge. that coupled with the distances between chargers and my driving style, which fwiw is not really excessive, 75-85 MPH on flat roads in warm weather, affords my car about 220+ miles per charge.

I encountered an EA station with only one working unit and two slower charging cars ahead of me which if I was running the bottom of the battery would have caused a 2+ hour delay in my trip.
I am well versed in EV road tripping, about 3/4 of my driving is on extended trips.

cometguy

Could you please give some more tips on extended road trips in your Taycan? This is sometihng that I do a lot, and I'm worried about keeping an ICEV for those trips instead of using my (forthcoming) Taycan... From watching YouTube videos on road-tripping with the Taycan and other non-Tesla BEVs, I don't think I'd want to run my BEV down to 5% or 10% as many do (indeed, I don't do that with my ICEVs); I'm thinking that I'd want to charge-up when I'm around 25-30% full simply because of the unreliability and poor spacing of public-charging stations in most of the US...