I don't see any "moving goal post" If anything Tesla "moved the goalpost, you can say. Cause, if they had the confidence in their current products, they would have placed an available P100D Model S out there, instead of the current Frankenstein version. At least, that's the way I see it.

All of a sudden, all the articles from the EV sites are about Tesla's next generation vehicles, not their current ones. What's that about? So, now Tesla's gonna just concede/dismiss their current cars, talking up future ones at least 1 yr away?

If this proves anything: It shows, the Taycan's development and arrival pushed Tesla to come up with a better powertrain (and/or sooner), except it's not here/ready yet

IMO, the criticisms and anecdotes made here on Rennlist are fair. And, every legitimate automag has (MT, R&T, C&D, etc.) said the same. Because, it's neither a current or future Model S under its Frankenstein skin. So, it's fair!

 

What makes you think it won't be offered in the future?
https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-mode...ction-q4-2020/
According to Tesla it's expected Q4/2020. None of us know whether the ceramic brakes or Eagle F1 SuperSports will be included or even offered. For now all we have to go on is 3 motors and a similar BMS/chemistry to the Model 3.

"It’s a start. We expect these track times to be beaten by the actual production 7 seat Model S Plaid variant that goes into production around Oct/Nov next year."

When is the Taycan expected to be delivered here? Do we know for a fact that it will have the same setup as the prototype used at Nurburgring right down to the tires?
What would your opinion be if the currently available Raven posted a <8 minute lap? Does a few seconds really justify the price difference considering all else? As much as people here are now discounting the importance of lap times over fit and finish, it still sounds like it's still a big decision maker.
What if you could go further, faster than the Taycan for 1/3 the price?
https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-mode...ndurance-race/

 

Per Jalopnick's Patrick George. It was the Taycan's available summer tires used on its Ring Run:

So, there you have it.

https://jalopnik.com/tesla-may-have-...ing-1838179307

 

to be clear no Taycan's have been delivered to date - and they aren't exactly rushing them to market. There are no production car EV ring runs right now. When the first Taycan is delivered to a customer with substandard range vs. Tesla let me know - but the seats will be way more comfortable.

 

Some of the mods, like the extreme tires; ripping out almost every seat; bulging fenders, etc., most likely won't make it to production. It's these additions that most likely added to its time, if it's even real.

 

No one here has claimed that Tesla's Model S in the original form would even make it around the ring - let alone beat the Taycan. People did claim that the available Model 3 could and that perhaps the Raven Model S could.

Your argument has been so all over the map from the beginning that it's not even worth trying to debate beyond that.

 

Ya...it's not like American companies have ever put flared fenders on their production vehicles or that one of them (Challenger) is one of the best selling musclecars.

...and it's not like the Model S is a family sedan with significantly more interior and storage room than a Taycan either.

The simple reality is nothing on the Tesla looks "extreme." I'm sure they're capable of offering a rear seat delete. Matter of fact I'm pretty sure it's the standard option on my GT3.

 

Look at that - it's like I predicted what happened before it happened.

It wasn't difficult really. Occam's razor and just trusting in the fact that a company worth billions of dollars probably knows the rules of the game as well as an internet keyboard (me) does.


So in summary, Tesla smashed Porsche's record with a larger, much more spacious car that's going to be available on a roughly similar timeframe using superior battery and EV technology, offering the best L2 self-driving system that could theoretically advance to L3 at some point, and will "probably" cost tens of thousands of dollars less. All on a chassis that's roughly 8 years old.

Wins for Porsche = superior fit and finish and the fact that their car supposedly had back seats during the Nurburgring run. ...but as we all know, back seats don't equal anywhere near 20 seconds.

It all comes down to the fact that Porsche vastly overpromised and undelivered. One only needs to go back and look at Oliver Blume's own statements on the Mission E to see that. Why? Simple. The Stuttgart-area supplier model that feeds and drives the German automotive industry doesn't have the EV parts. Tesla has their own Gigafactory and the Germans don't have anything comparable. That's why Porsche had to take the same batteries as the Chevy Bolt. Once you start understanding how Porsche builds their cars vs how Tesla does it makes sense. My guess is that long-term, the German industry will rapidly adapt and we'll get the best of all worlds (except price) from Porsche and the other German companies but we simply aren't there yet.

If Tesla really wants to stick the dagger in they'll run the Model X Plaid package around the ring so that all the Taycan "Turbo S" owners are beat by a bunch of soccer moms too. Maybe put the Plaid package in the Model 3 next and watch the Taycan 4S get destroyed by their lowest model (then again a M3P might be faster than the upcoming Taycan 4S already).

 

Tried to get this to you earlier, but sent it to your other post. Yeah, Porsche claimed they used the summer tires you can order off the configurator:

So, there you have it.

https://jalopnik.com/tesla-may-have-...ing-1838179307

 

I wouldn't be surprised that this Model S prototype is the real deal. But adding ceramic brakes, suspension, fender flares, three motors, and most likely a larger battery pack could make this beast turn out to be a $150k+ out the door. It would be awesome no doubt. But this is the Corvette ZR1 versus the GT3. Same price, ZR1 is much faster, but such a different approach to a car.

 

My keyboard-warrior estimated additional costs beyond what they pay already: ceramic brakes - 5-7k. Suspension 5-7k. Fender flares = 2k. Additional motor? Unknown. The battery pack is supposedly just the new design with better cooling and probably costs them about the same.

My prediction? $120,000 and the first ones are delivered before the end of next year. Maybe it will cost a bit more than that and they'll offer better bucket seats too.

Ya...the ZR1 is different in that you get the sense it's a sledge hammer and the Porsche has a superior, more expensive drivetrain. That's precisely why I bought a GT3 and not a ZR1. In the case of the Tesla vs the Porsche it's actually the opposite. I think the Tesla is actually the far superior EV drivetrain design and the only thing the Porsche has going for it is nicer fit and finish.

The car I want is the good looks and fit and finish of the Taycan and the motors, batteries, computers, and everything else from this Plaid Tesla. If anyone claims anything otherwise here they're probably ignorant or simply a fanboy that's shilling. I bet in 5-10 years the German automotive industry will finally give us the equivalent of that; I'm not sure Tesla ever will.

 

What's wrong with running a prototype or development car? How long Porsche has been talking about Taycan performance? You still can't buy or drive a production one yet.

 

Oh wow. Pot calling Kettle Black, I see.

Don't be so pedantic. You're the one who brought up "Moving Goal Post", no one else. Don't run from it now. Embrace it, own it!

I only said: One can argue/If anything, it's Tesla who's "Moving The Goalpost (as you). Cause, it appears all of a sudden they don't want to talk about their current cars anymore. But instead, they're now touting ones that don't exist, which maybe 1+ yrs away? How is that a prime business model (or a foundation for fanboy bragging rights) ? LOL....That's moving the goal post for sure, compared to what we were hearing previously ('The Taycan's worse than a 7 yr old Model S in performance', yada yada yada/etc). Cause, I don't think any of us really know what this recent Ring brouhaha proves, if anything? Except, Elon's just playing Porsche's game at the moment (I'm sure there's Teslarati who feels it's the other way around). We're just all watching to see exactly where it goes. Fun times.

 

The Model 3 and Raven do exist sir. Perhaps you should understand Tesla's model lineup before you start typing.

The only one comparing Tesla's original design to the Taycan is you. The rest of us simply stated the obvious - that with some simple changes the Tesla would beat the Taycan because they have the superior EV parts on hand whereas Porsche does not.

Further, I live in Germany and have access to Porsche models months before any of their production lands in the USA. I'll let you know when my dealer actually has a Taycan because my sales guy will be posting it all over Instagram.

Keep in mind - I'm not an EV owner nor do I plan to be one anytime soon since it's obvious Porsche totally failed to deliver what Oliver Blume promised and I have no interest in Tesla's product either.

The Taycan is typical tier 1 Porsche fit and finish on a tier 2 EV drivetrain. A good first effort but not good enough for my money. Hopefully they'll change the silly name and do better next time.

 

You live in Germany, and your up now typing away with me, us on Rennlist?....Wow!

We'll, tell them to stop feeding media so many current clickbait articles and misleading headlines about Plaid Mode, etc., since you're now talking about the Model 3 and Raven (as if no one tried to disparage a Taycan vs a "7 year Model S Platform"). But I hear ya, and it's all good (no Goal Post harmed, being moved during this discussion). Lol

Go to bed man. Get some sleep my friend.