here is a chart of Model S vs. Taycan

 

This

 

This is all based on the presumption that a significant amount of would be Panamera buyers actually want an EV... I find the idea of buyers cross shopping the Taycan against any of their other conventional offerings a much harder pill to swallow...

 

I'd say virtually every Model S buyer was a potential Panamera buyer…and that product has lead the segment in sales until recently - with the Model 3 essentially destroying the market.

but I don't even care - I think that from an optics perspective - the EV 4 door sedan being 15-30k less similarity equipped would be a discontinuity in the Porsche pricing eco-system that couldn't be allowed - the Taycan can not be significantly cheaper than the Panamera - it's simply not allowed. Well run companies (and Porsche is meticulously well run) don't allow stuff like that to happen…the pricing had to be in line with a Panamera otherwise it would make no sense - at least from Porsche's perspective.

from my perspective they don't understand - it's an EV and needs to be measured on EV standards, and the price of this EV is non-competitive - Porsche is being hampered by their existing business lines and the need for consistency in that space…Xerox didn't like desktop publishing because it threatened their copier business…

in the tech world, and EV's are tech more than they are manufacturing - you have to willing to invalidate your previous generation products…

Tesla is a tech company that makes cars
Porsche is a manufacturing company attempting to make tech

we'll see how this turns out - and Tesla failing doesn't mean Porsche succeeds - it just means Tesla fails - it doesn't make Porsche any better at EV's.

 

Nice car, expensive - but all of our cars are. Terrible product launch - no dates, no interior pictures or video ... they should stick to engineering.

If my wife really wants an EV, it will be a Tesla X, based on what I've seen so far. I will stick with my 911.

Cheers!

 

I must say the Taycan is a hard pass for me.

For about the same money (ok, maybe just a tad bit more), I'd rather just have a Panamera Turbo S E-Hybrid

 

Not me. Not even close. Having driven an EV as my daily for the last 19,500 miles, the EV is way more luxurious to drive AND sportier. Even taking out the one pedal driving (why Porsche, just give us the option!) the smoothness and instant torque is way better for daily driving.

And for everyone blathering that the Taycan is 5,100 pounds, the Panny Turbo S E Hybird is TWO HUNDRED pounds MORE. Yes, it's 5,315 lbs. And that's weight high up with that big old turbo V8 with the turbos on top. So it'll have none of the handing advantages of the low slung pack.

Dave has it right. Priced lower than the Panamera, the Taycan steals significant sales unless you need it to road trip.

 

Yes that's when it had no peer. Not when it charge you more for a lessor car.

 

Having had lunch and some side conversations via text with Dave, I'm starting to see a clearer picture here.

Porsche, a performance brand, is launching an EV. This is IMPORTANT because as said, they are investing 6bn Euro in EV's and expect that in 6 years, 50% of all Porsches will be electrified. Yes, that's Billion and yes, that's HALF of ALL Porsches will be electrified.

Porsche sells products that are expensive for what they are. Face it, a Corvette is a lot better value for performance dollar than a 911. An Alpine A110 is a better car arguably than a 718 Cayman at less price. An S class is both more luxurious AND more sporting than most Panameras, depending on spec. And yet, Porsche sells. Why? Emotion. Racing. Performance. The "it" factor. The fact that the cars are just engineered "better". This is why you (and me) pay more for a Porsche.

Back to the Taycan. EV is a non-starter to many 'performance' purists. This despite the fact that they offer massive acceleration, very precise power delivery and can be a lot of fun. So, Porsche cannot afford to offer something that won't blow you away performance wise. So we end up with the Turbo and Turbo S. We end up with amazingly repeatable performance figures, and excellent 'Ring times. Which mean squat to the daily driver but give you bragging rights at the social setting of your choice. Because who spends $200k to end up with a lesser car? Range? Hell, when you talk about your GT3, do you discuss pesky things like fuel economy? Of course not. You just bitch about it when the effective range is less than 200 miles on a tank. Will the paltry 230-ish EPA range matter to the average punter running around LA or the Bay Area? Probably not. Will it matter to those used to high performance and low economy? Probably not. Will it matter to those who don't know that an EV can do better? Probably not.

The 4 / 4S is what's going to make or break this car as a "real" car. Or indeed, a "real" EV. Because while the Model S can't match the Taycan's repeated performance, how often do you need to do that? If that P100D lines up against your Turbo S Taycan at a stoplight in downtown LA, it's going to be down to driver reaction times. Even if you did 2-3 pulls. And your Taycan Turbo will barely gap that dude in the Model 3 performance next to you.

The 4S needs to have more range, and much more moderate performance. And it won't be the poorer vehicle for it. It'll be the better one.

 

Well I see this as version 1.0. It's urgent to wait !

 

The Taycan is obviously the evolution of the Panamera, it's what the Panamera would have looked 10 years from now. This is the real problem (together with price...), Mission E prototype was very appealing with its own design, look at it!

https://www.thedrive.com/sheetmetal/...arrive-in-2019

 

The Taycan is obviously not going to be the sells leader for Porsche, esp at these prices. But as someone mentioned earlier, the brand Porsche is an aspirational one. So, basically this high price for their first BEV will be just that: aspirational.

 

I get what your saying but I'll never understand the extreme contradiction that occurs between performance and efficiency.

There isn't a human being on this planet that needs a street car that accelerates that quickly and there are very few places in the world where that performance can be exploited legally or safely.

Therefore to me, the Taycan represents a huge waste of energy and resources which is very hypocritical considering their new "sustainability" goals. If saving the environment is truly the plan here then a great deal of sensibility is also required for which there is very little of at this point.

They needed to stop going after the low hanging fruit by attempting to "wow" people in the conventional and expected ways...

If Porsche truly wanted to make their mark in the EV game all they needed was something that was beautiful, well built, track-able and extremely fun and rewarding to drive in the Porsche way.

Locking horns with established EV manufactures (the produce significantly lower cost products) over range and acceleration figures is a silly and possibly costly move.

 

Dude. Just drop it. There isn’t a market for 40,000 of these at $175k ASP. Honestly, there isn’t a market for 4000 of them at $75k ASP. Look at the damn etron. And it will forever be stuck on a 10 year old version of Android.

It’s a giant piece of crap that can barely make it to the end of the driveway without needing a recharge, and the closest 800V charging station is 2 continents away.

IT’S AT LEAST $100,000 OVERPRICED

 

No need to say "but" in your statement. What you said is precisely what I was getting at.

Porsche is thinking by established car maker rules with this product. Hence the 'Ring time, the repeated 0-200 performance.

Tesla blew up the space by thinking differently. Yes, the cars are fast but that's not the end-all be-all and certainly not the brand's mission statement. I was hoping Porsche would head down this road a bit but it's clear they haven't. Shame.