Autopilot Tesla V. Porsche
10-11-2018, 04:30 PM
#16
You guys know there are things called trains and buses that'll also do all the driving for you too, right?
10-11-2018, 04:45 PM
#17
Rennlist Member
I recently took a Train - not the same - self driving cars maintain personal schedule an independence with the option of driving assistance - public/mass transportation is not the same as personal transportation - for my particular case using a company provided bus would add 2 hours a day to my commute and limit my independence and schedule once I'm at work
I'm really at a loss to understand why you object to driving assistance as an option - it really really helps and Tesla's autopilot is quite good - there are quite a few legitimate cases that even people who enjoy driving would like to be in the car with driving assistance…it's not a bad thing.
I'm really at a loss to understand why you object to driving assistance as an option - it really really helps and Tesla's autopilot is quite good - there are quite a few legitimate cases that even people who enjoy driving would like to be in the car with driving assistance…it's not a bad thing.
10-12-2018, 11:17 AM
#18
Track Day
Thread Starter
That works great for some areas and some people. But not where I live and need to travel. And the great thing about this feature (at least for now), is it is an option, and you can choose to buy it or not buy it.
Last edited by TurboScott; 10-12-2018 at 11:58 AM. Reason: fixed error in msg
10-12-2018, 11:53 AM
#19
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
I live in Houston. There is very, very little public transportation here. In addition, 2-3 days per week I am out of the office visiting projects on site. So on those days, public transport wouldn't work, even if I had public transport as an option. But I don't. Houston isn't set up that way. I've lived in NY, Philly, DC and Houston metro areas. Only in Philly did I take the train, because I had a 100% office job. In DC, I went from one suburb to the other. There was no direct bus route, and no rail at all that would have served me. In NY, public transportation was great, but I was out of the office on projects 5/5 days per week.
These cities all have tremendous amounts of traffic, and very few alternatives. So yes, a traffic jam assist is a tremendous feature for me. In the last two days, I've seen two rear-end collisions happen in front of me in traffic. I've almost rear ended two people when I realized that they had no functioning brake lights and that they were slowing rapidly. In addition, I've been in the car, commuting, over 95 Hours in a little under two months. Much of that has been in stop and go traffic. Again, a little assistance in traffic would give me a much lower stress level at the end of the day.
10-12-2018, 10:59 PM
#20
OP: As impressive as adaptive cruise is, the slower you end up going, like real slow stop and go, the more you will appreciate auto-steer / AP. I definitely take my eyes off the road, for <5mph stop and go where I can look up at an enclosed highway and know what's in the next 10 seconds / 20 feet. More rapid eye checks, while working a smart phone are also that much easier with the extra hand freed up. Ultimately, I know I may have to drop it.
What is nuanced, and not working out with Tesla lately, is its "updates". They know what they are doing, when months old cars get better features that suit more recent hardware improvements, but then older ones lose features simply because "It's easier to support a unified UI" across its fleet, or whatever the excuse may be. Think of not just getting familiar with all the touchscreen real estate that is Tesla, but the ways you will both have to re-learn, witness screen renderings & controls shrink and be pushed to the bottom, or how in the newest update ("Version 9") a map is always present that you cannot turn off. These are examples of changes you will not be asked about, which may come with improvements too, but are part of a process no other auto-maker either offers, or imposes.
What is nuanced, and not working out with Tesla lately, is its "updates". They know what they are doing, when months old cars get better features that suit more recent hardware improvements, but then older ones lose features simply because "It's easier to support a unified UI" across its fleet, or whatever the excuse may be. Think of not just getting familiar with all the touchscreen real estate that is Tesla, but the ways you will both have to re-learn, witness screen renderings & controls shrink and be pushed to the bottom, or how in the newest update ("Version 9") a map is always present that you cannot turn off. These are examples of changes you will not be asked about, which may come with improvements too, but are part of a process no other auto-maker either offers, or imposes.
10-13-2018, 11:24 AM
#21
Bought a new Tesla Model-S 100D a year ago, and it’s been a nightmare. Also ticked off the autopilot and self driving mode. The Autopilot, although it is one of the more advanced, is far from working as it should. The self driving, is a waste of money. Tesla will not have what they market for years, and selling an option of what is possibly a feature 3-4 years from now, is borderline fraud (you sell the skin before the bear is shot).
I have pre-ordered a Taycan, and although I expect that Tesla will be ahead of Porsche on autopilot and eventually self driving (they have way more data input to their data learning than any other manufacturer), I am certain that the rest of the car will be so much better from Porsche and actually provide some “soul” as a car (something the Tesla completely lacks). The build quality and especially the service (lack thereof), and number of faults with the Tesla is simply not worth what they charge for the car. I have a car that rattles horribly in both the suspension (known fault on all air suspension), and the interior, navigation that falls out, keys that are not recognized, safety system that tries to steer the vehicle straight into walls or cars (without autopilot engaged), so will warn anyone who thinks of buying a Tesla, simply not worth being a guinea pig....
I have pre-ordered a Taycan, and although I expect that Tesla will be ahead of Porsche on autopilot and eventually self driving (they have way more data input to their data learning than any other manufacturer), I am certain that the rest of the car will be so much better from Porsche and actually provide some “soul” as a car (something the Tesla completely lacks). The build quality and especially the service (lack thereof), and number of faults with the Tesla is simply not worth what they charge for the car. I have a car that rattles horribly in both the suspension (known fault on all air suspension), and the interior, navigation that falls out, keys that are not recognized, safety system that tries to steer the vehicle straight into walls or cars (without autopilot engaged), so will warn anyone who thinks of buying a Tesla, simply not worth being a guinea pig....
10-13-2018, 11:34 AM
#22
Race Car
Bought a new Tesla Model-S 100D a year ago, and it’s been a nightmare. Also ticked off the autopilot and self driving mode. The Autopilot, although it is one of the more advanced, is far from working as it should. The self driving, is a waste of money. Tesla will not have what they market for years, and selling an option of what is possibly a feature 3-4 years from now, is borderline fraud (you sell the skin before the bear is shot).
I have pre-ordered a Taycan, and although I expect that Tesla will be ahead of Porsche on autopilot and eventually self driving (they have way more data input to their data learning than any other manufacturer), I am certain that the rest of the car will be so much better from Porsche and actually provide some “soul” as a car (something the Tesla completely lacks). The build quality and especially the service (lack thereof), and number of faults with the Tesla is simply not worth what they charge for the car. I have a car that rattles horribly in both the suspension (known fault on all air suspension), and the interior, navigation that falls out, keys that are not recognized, safety system that tries to steer the vehicle straight into walls or cars (without autopilot engaged), so will warn anyone who thinks of buying a Tesla, simply not worth being a guinea pig....
I have pre-ordered a Taycan, and although I expect that Tesla will be ahead of Porsche on autopilot and eventually self driving (they have way more data input to their data learning than any other manufacturer), I am certain that the rest of the car will be so much better from Porsche and actually provide some “soul” as a car (something the Tesla completely lacks). The build quality and especially the service (lack thereof), and number of faults with the Tesla is simply not worth what they charge for the car. I have a car that rattles horribly in both the suspension (known fault on all air suspension), and the interior, navigation that falls out, keys that are not recognized, safety system that tries to steer the vehicle straight into walls or cars (without autopilot engaged), so will warn anyone who thinks of buying a Tesla, simply not worth being a guinea pig....
10-13-2018, 01:16 PM
#23
Well, I don’t think the Taycan will be perfect from day one, but Porsche has a little more experience with the basic parts of a vehicle, like steering and suspension (the steering on the Tesla has a 0,5 cm wiggle movement, something Tesla defines as “within their standards”, something I have not had in any modern vehicle). Yes, there will be faults when the Taycan comes out, but the way Tesla has handled the faults is also why I am so disappointed with the brand. I would never buy one again.
10-13-2018, 02:05 PM
#24
Burning Brakes
... What is nuanced, and not working out with Tesla lately, is its "updates". They know what they are doing, when months old cars get better features that suit more recent hardware improvements, but then older ones lose features simply because "It's easier to support a unified UI" across its fleet, or whatever the excuse may be. Think of not just getting familiar with all the touchscreen real estate that is Tesla, but the ways you will both have to re-learn, witness screen renderings & controls shrink and be pushed to the bottom, or how in the newest update ("Version 9") a map is always present that you cannot turn off. These are examples of changes you will not be asked about, which may come with improvements too, but are part of a process no other auto-maker either offers, or imposes.
My car is only three months old. It has already had four software updates - including the new v9 this morning. I haven't driven it yet, but am looking forward to the next feature set - including dash cam capability, the new energy display (was already in Model S/X), some of the new navigation enhancements, Missile Command...
10-29-2018, 03:20 PM
#25
Burning Brakes
Tesla is falling behind in the autonomous competition. The VW/Audi team (yes in the Silicon Valley) is already ahead of them and Porsche may get the same system sometime in the future.
The issue with Tesla is that they want to stick with the camera + radar system which others don't find safe enough. And it is not as we can see.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/featu...iving-car-race
The issue with Tesla is that they want to stick with the camera + radar system which others don't find safe enough. And it is not as we can see.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/featu...iving-car-race
10-29-2018, 09:39 PM
#27
Burning Brakes
Tesla Autopilot is going away for the time being - you can't get it if you're ordering a new one (Ars Technica story)
Autopilot is called "EAP", has been available for years, works pretty well now, and is continuously being improved.
10-29-2018, 09:45 PM
#28
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
That is FSD - "Full Self Drive". It has been advertised as buying into an upcoming feature. If you buy it in advance, it is less money than buying it after the fact. FSD support is going to require a computer hardware upgrade on existing cars. (Unplug old computer box, plug in more powerful new one.) So those who bought it upfront will get the upgrade when it is available. The rest of us will pay more for the upgrade.
Autopilot is called "EAP", has been available for years, works pretty well now, and is continuously being improved.
Autopilot is called "EAP", has been available for years, works pretty well now, and is continuously being improved.
While Tesla has pulled the full self-driving feature from its order page, it hasn't stopped touting the capability on its website. The official Tesla Autopilot page still has a banner that advertises "full self-driving hardware on all cars" across the top—despite the fact that it's widely believed that full self-driving will require upgraded silicon Tesla plans to roll out next year.
10-29-2018, 09:51 PM
#29
Burning Brakes
I did.
EAP and FSD are two distinct option levels. FSD builds on top of EAP.
As a long time software developer, I don't think FSD is going to be very useful for at least a few more years. So I didn't purchase it. I'd love to be proven wrong though. If it provides compelling features at some point, my car can supposedly be upgraded.
So you make a distinction between Autopilot and FSD, but evidently Elon doesn't mind some confusion between the two.
As a long time software developer, I don't think FSD is going to be very useful for at least a few more years. So I didn't purchase it. I'd love to be proven wrong though. If it provides compelling features at some point, my car can supposedly be upgraded.
10-29-2018, 09:53 PM
#30
Burning Brakes
It has a basic hardware flaw that can't be fixed. Recent accidents in 2018 (Mountain View and 2 fire trucks) show there is no improvement in safety.