987.2 Spyder 3.8L X51 Conversion
05-10-2014, 11:55 PM
#61
Rennlist Member
any updates or clarification on the California emissions issue?
I have a 987.2 Boxster S, and I would love to have someone drop a 430hp X51 engine into my car.
However, there is a very strong chance I will be moving to California in the next 2 years, and I would hate to do all that work to the car, and then have it fail CA emissions, because the computer is expecting one thing and getting another when they run the state emission test.
I have a 987.2 Boxster S, and I would love to have someone drop a 430hp X51 engine into my car.
However, there is a very strong chance I will be moving to California in the next 2 years, and I would hate to do all that work to the car, and then have it fail CA emissions, because the computer is expecting one thing and getting another when they run the state emission test.
05-11-2014, 12:28 AM
#63
Rennlist Member
I acquired a slightly used (10k miles) 3.8GTS DFI engine last year from a salvage company in the UK. I have been doing quite a bit of research and have been modifying the 3.8 engine myself in preparation for the exchange. In regards to emissions testing, this is what I think you are facing:
In CA you will have to pass 2 tests, a visual and an OBDII test. Starting in 2014, 2000 and newer vehicles will no longer have a tailpipe test (some stations are not equipped to do this yet - the process is still rolling out).
While this sounds simple and good for car junkies, it is not. OBDII provides a ton of info and the state plans to use it to see what you're up to. Here is some failure criteria I have gleaned from CARB (CA Air Resources Board)documents and presentations:
OBD system data is inappropriate for the vehicle being tested;
OBD system data does not match the original OEM or an ARB exempted software configuration;
OBD system data indicates the system has not yet been sufficiently operated to determine the presence or absence of a DTC (Diagnostic Trouble Code)
There are more of coarse, but are fairly obvious ( no comm, Check Engine light, etc.)
CARB will be downloading lots of data from your OBDII port and use it to expand their data base and compare to existing data base for your car.
They will verify the VIN in the ECU matches the window plate. They will verify your software version (Cal ID) matches the one given to them by Porsche. If Porsche issues a change and you don't go to the dealer and update, you fail. The will verify the software checksum (CVN) to see if the software has been tampered with. They will check when codes were last cleared and how many cycles have been run since last cleared.
CARB has been compiling OBDII data on vehicles for many years and probably has a good idea on the number of modified vehicles. As the new program is rolling out, individuals are still passing with software modifications but probably won't in the future.
IMHO, what this means for the 3.8 conversion is that the engine must run on the OEM 3.4 map and run quite happily, every two years. One must be able to flash the original program back in. This would seem to doom EVOMSIT and similar companies for the CA market. I like the FVD approach of supplying a device which stores your original program and allows one to swap from OEM to modified MAP at your leisure.
In CA you will have to pass 2 tests, a visual and an OBDII test. Starting in 2014, 2000 and newer vehicles will no longer have a tailpipe test (some stations are not equipped to do this yet - the process is still rolling out).
While this sounds simple and good for car junkies, it is not. OBDII provides a ton of info and the state plans to use it to see what you're up to. Here is some failure criteria I have gleaned from CARB (CA Air Resources Board)documents and presentations:
OBD system data is inappropriate for the vehicle being tested;
OBD system data does not match the original OEM or an ARB exempted software configuration;
OBD system data indicates the system has not yet been sufficiently operated to determine the presence or absence of a DTC (Diagnostic Trouble Code)
There are more of coarse, but are fairly obvious ( no comm, Check Engine light, etc.)
CARB will be downloading lots of data from your OBDII port and use it to expand their data base and compare to existing data base for your car.
They will verify the VIN in the ECU matches the window plate. They will verify your software version (Cal ID) matches the one given to them by Porsche. If Porsche issues a change and you don't go to the dealer and update, you fail. The will verify the software checksum (CVN) to see if the software has been tampered with. They will check when codes were last cleared and how many cycles have been run since last cleared.
CARB has been compiling OBDII data on vehicles for many years and probably has a good idea on the number of modified vehicles. As the new program is rolling out, individuals are still passing with software modifications but probably won't in the future.
IMHO, what this means for the 3.8 conversion is that the engine must run on the OEM 3.4 map and run quite happily, every two years. One must be able to flash the original program back in. This would seem to doom EVOMSIT and similar companies for the CA market. I like the FVD approach of supplying a device which stores your original program and allows one to swap from OEM to modified MAP at your leisure.
I worry about it, particularly the bolded part.
05-11-2014, 03:52 PM
#64
WTF is it with you guys and the friggin SMOG?!? A guy is doing an amazing engine upgrade on an amazing car and all you want to do is **** and whine about a CARB inspection?? STFU, slip the guy an extra $40 and untwist your panties. :bang head:
OP
Awesome conversion, Can't wait to see it in person! Please bring it down to the next GPX breakfast in Long Beach!
OP
Awesome conversion, Can't wait to see it in person! Please bring it down to the next GPX breakfast in Long Beach!
05-13-2014, 02:20 AM
#65
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What this guy said.
WTF is it with you guys and the friggin SMOG?!? A guy is doing an amazing engine upgrade on an amazing car and all you want to do is **** and whine about a CARB inspection?? STFU, slip the guy an extra $40 and untwist your panties. :bang head:
OP
Awesome conversion, Can't wait to see it in person! Please bring it down to the next GPX breakfast in Long Beach!
OP
Awesome conversion, Can't wait to see it in person! Please bring it down to the next GPX breakfast in Long Beach!
05-13-2014, 09:07 AM
#66
Rennlist Member
Nice attitude, medtech. And welcome to the 21st century.
05-13-2014, 10:49 AM
#67
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Shop delays, unrelated to my car, but we are making progress! The engine block has been machined for the oil pump and is put back together, mounted in the car and I'm told on the dyno as of yesterday.
She looks pretty sexy, if I do say so myself
She looks pretty sexy, if I do say so myself
05-13-2014, 08:06 PM
#71
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That engine is very clean and the project looks great. What exhaust system are you going to install on the conversion. I can offer you headers with 200 cell HJS catalytic converters or race headers with fabspeed max flow mufflers.
I have a Boxster Spyder too. Awesome great car.
I have a Boxster Spyder too. Awesome great car.
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Fabspeed Motorsport USA
155 Commerce Drive
Fort Washington, PA. 19034
www.Fabspeed.com
P: 215-646-4945
F: 215-646-9828
Exotic Car Performance Experts
Porsche, Ferrari, Lamborghini, McLaren, Maserati, Bentley, Aston Martin, BMW, Audi and Jaguar.
31 year PCA Club member supporter
14 year Ferrari Club member
1st ever financial supporter of Porsche Fans/ Rennlist
05-13-2014, 10:08 PM
#72
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Thanks Joe. Will have to see how sound is stock. May be interested in sport cats mated up to PSE or maxflo. Can't do race cans. Too much drone for me on a street car.
05-14-2014, 08:46 AM
#73
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On my Boxster Spyder I am currently running the stock Porsche 987.2 headers that have 2 catalytic converters on each header and my fabspeed Maxflo rear mufflers. Car picked up solid dyno verified power with no drone.
Any owner should want to eliminate the factory Porsche rear muffler as it is a reverse 3 way muffler with 2 additional catalytic converters. The PSE is a nice piece and I have seen and driven cars with PSE. Often a set of fabspeed headers with HJS German 200 cell cats gives all and any of these cars a great sports car sound and added power.
Sports car sound and power is all a balancing and trade off situation as eliminating some the 6 factory restrictive catalytic that are factory installed on each and every Boxster and cayman built from 2005 to 2012 leads to significant power and sports car sound. It's just a matter of judgement, sound level desired, and usage.
Your Boxster Spyder with a X51 V8 and some simple reversible mods is around 420HP and just an awesome unique all around car. On my next west coast trip would love to come out and see it.
Any owner should want to eliminate the factory Porsche rear muffler as it is a reverse 3 way muffler with 2 additional catalytic converters. The PSE is a nice piece and I have seen and driven cars with PSE. Often a set of fabspeed headers with HJS German 200 cell cats gives all and any of these cars a great sports car sound and added power.
Sports car sound and power is all a balancing and trade off situation as eliminating some the 6 factory restrictive catalytic that are factory installed on each and every Boxster and cayman built from 2005 to 2012 leads to significant power and sports car sound. It's just a matter of judgement, sound level desired, and usage.
Your Boxster Spyder with a X51 V8 and some simple reversible mods is around 420HP and just an awesome unique all around car. On my next west coast trip would love to come out and see it.